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Old 12-11-2010, 09:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Super duty panhard bar

I have a 2000 F-350. My question is if I switch to a high steer set up do I still need the panhard bar. Or will I still run into bump steer problems if I remove the panhard bar
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Old 12-11-2010, 10:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I would assume that with or without high steer, you will experience some varrying form of bump steer, but I will admit idk anything
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Old 12-11-2010, 10:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Bump steer is a result of the panhard and the drag link being at different angles and lengths. So, if you change the angle of the drag and make it different than the angle of the panhard, then yes you'll get some type of bump steer. How much? Hard to tell from my laptop.

If you remove the panhard, you'll probably experience a worse case of wandering or tracking of the front end. Since it keeps the front axle from shifting side-to-side. . I have never experimented with this scenario, so this is just a guess. But I would think removing the track bar will hurt handling more than having it a few a degrees off from the track bar.

You could look into raising the axle mount, thus keeping them closer to the same angle after going high steer
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Old 12-11-2010, 10:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Doesn't the leaf springs keep the axle from wandering? I always wondered the reasoning for a panhard bar on a leaf spring suspension. Granted it's a lot older but my 76 3/4 ton chevy doesn't have a panhard bar and it seems to handle just as good as my F-350
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Old 12-11-2010, 11:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Doesn't the leaf springs keep the axle from wandering? I always wondered the reasoning for a panhard bar on a leaf spring suspension. Granted it's a lot older but my 76 3/4 ton chevy doesn't have a panhard bar and it seems to handle just as good as my F-350
Don't quote me on this because I'm not as familiar with chevys as fords, but the older chevy trucks had the steering box pushing forward and backward in relation to the driver seat versus the superduty having a link going across the truck. The force of the steering on the axle movement on the chevy is easily controlled by the leaf springs, whereas the steering on the newer ford 1 ton's (86-present) places the load on the side of the spring, thus the need for the trackbar to control side to side movement. It is late, I am drunk, please excuse any grammatical errors.
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Old 12-12-2010, 09:38 AM   #6 (permalink)
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We have Hi steer kits with everything including a new ad track bar..PM if I can help. You Cannot go without a track bar..
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Old 12-12-2010, 10:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
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We have Hi steer kits with everything including a new ad track bar..PM if I can help. You Cannot go without a track bar..
X2 I've driven quite a few that had the trac bar removed due a broken mount on the axle and I was not very impressed.
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Old 12-16-2010, 11:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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While you can get away with removing it. It is far from safe and your performance will suffer. It will walk and wander put consdierable lateral stress on the leafs and their mounts. All around a bad idea. Worse yet on a heavy vehicle like a SD.

High steer onthe other had is a excellent idea. You wil be able to dependign on hieght of lift go back to a stadard pitman arm which will greatly reduce stress there. Of course clearnce will be better as well. Bump steer will be greatly reduced/eliminated. Steering effort will also improve. Add a ram assist steering and you will have the best all around steering and control. All nicely up over the axle and out of the way.
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Old 10-21-2014, 10:42 AM   #9 (permalink)
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broken panhard bar on 2000 F-350 Super Duty

I bought the 7.3 diesel truck used. Am not particularly knowledgeable in this matter. I am not an off-road guy. Use the truck to cart around my 3k lb Big Foot Camper only.
Dealer where I purchased truck 13 years ago said that 4" lift kit was "factory installed" Heres my question: Where the panhard bar attaches on the passenger side of undercarriage, it has broken off. A bracket was welded on to reattach and now it has broken as well. I have been told I can just remove the panhard bar altogether. Advice? Much thanks for any response.

Kevin
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Old 10-21-2014, 01:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by f350n4.6ranger View Post
Don't quote me on this because I'm not as familiar with chevys as fords, but the older chevy trucks had the steering box pushing forward and backward in relation to the driver seat versus the superduty having a link going across the truck. The force of the steering on the axle movement on the chevy is easily controlled by the leaf springs, whereas the steering on the newer ford 1 ton's (86-present) places the load on the side of the spring, thus the need for the trackbar to control side to side movement. It is late, I am drunk, please excuse any grammatical errors.
This is my understanding as well as direct experience. My '77 Chevy K20 on 36s had no bar, and no problems. The pitman arm pushed front-rear.

My current 95 F350 on 37s came with no bar and bad deathwobble. The pitman pushes left-right. I added a bar and it tracks fine.

If you're looking for aftermarket bars/mounts, you might check out RuffStuff.
Panhard / Trackbar Options - RuffStuff Specialties

And the 4" lift will make things worse without a bar. Straight stock springs will resist side-to-side loads better than curved lift springs.
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Old 10-21-2014, 01:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Doesn't the leaf springs keep the axle from wandering? I always wondered the reasoning for a panhard bar on a leaf spring suspension. Granted it's a lot older but my 76 3/4 ton chevy doesn't have a panhard bar and it seems to handle just as good as my F-350
I have a 99 7.3 took the bar off because it kept breaking the mount AKA shitty add a leaf kit , wrong geometry bar was too short . I have been with out it for a while its OK , I only have 35's . I call BULLSHIT on it is necessary . But my truck doesn't do allot of off road and the tires are small . With that said I have a 78 with 37's NO trac bar and it drives just FINE ! I am sure it's there because it makes it better , but I cant tell much difference pounding the pavement and a few skid roads . I will cut and lengthen my bar soon and reinstall it . Just my 2 cents .
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Old 10-21-2014, 03:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Trucks without track bars are total shit to drive down the highway at speed especially with bigger tires. They just wander everywhere.
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Old 10-21-2014, 05:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Easiest thing to do with hi steer is just move the bar to the passenger upper leaf spring perch. Note the truck pictured has around 20 inches of lift so the tabs will most likely not need to be 6 inches tall as pictured but you get the idea. Just match your drag link angle and you'll be golden.

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Old 10-23-2014, 08:31 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Old thread and some old posts, but there's some wrong information in here, first bit, a track bar will put more stress on the leaf spring mounts then if it is not there. Its not hard to understand, track bar will apply force perpendicular to the leaf springs as it moves up and down, shorter the trac bar the worse this will be. Without the trac bar there is no force.

Second, properly setup/design leaf spring setups do not need a track bar, the reason the 85 and later leaf sprung Ford trucks need it is because of the shitty front shackle setup. They are not setup to resist the side to side movement and thus require a track bar. Now Ford likely did this on purpose and installed a track bar for steering reasons to give the mass population the warm and fuzzies when driving down the road.

There are lots of trucks with shackle reversals driving around with no track bar and haven't killed a bus full of nuns. My old race truck had a front shackle setup with no track bar and it worked/steered great, went down the roads at highway speeds with no death wobble or anything.
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Old 10-23-2014, 08:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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WOW....good luck removing a track bar from a '95 up. Its got nothing to do with the shackle in front. Braking a shackle mount is so rare that its not a issue at all.

Guess it your truck is sprung so heavy that it ride like a wagon you may be able to remove it but its not gaining you anything.
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:37 PM   #16 (permalink)
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On an 85.5-97 with stock front shackles a pahard is abslutley necessary. With a shackle reversal it is not.
On a super pig with leafs drivability is not horrible without it, my 00 didn't have one due to a broken axle side mount and I didn't kill a bus full of nuns with it, and driving it compared to the 01 a friend of mine had at the same time, you didn't notice the difference.
I recently stumbled across a very nice replacement bracket for them on autofab's site though.
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:46 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Bull I've done doz's of RS-SD spring swaps since I came up with this in '99. You have to use a track bar. I've sold hundreds of kits since, you won't like driving a truck that flexes without one.
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Old 10-23-2014, 08:23 PM   #18 (permalink)
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A track bar might be next on my list. My shit wanders alittle and it gets hairy at times going down the highway.
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Old 10-24-2014, 06:48 AM   #19 (permalink)
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WOW....good luck removing a track bar from a '95 up. Its got nothing to do with the shackle in front. Braking a shackle mount is so rare that its not a issue at all.
Reading comprehension fails you. Never said anything about breaking mounts, I said shitty stock design. Pounding out bushings and the shackle bottoming out on the frame are the issues. I'm with 82' on everything he has said.
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Old 10-25-2014, 05:30 PM   #20 (permalink)
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My '00 with stock springs was pretty shitty to drive when the track bar bracket broke. Going across an intersection with a nice rise/fall I would have to let go of the wheel and watch it turn 90 degrees and then back as the suspension cycled.
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Old 10-27-2014, 07:00 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Easiest thing to do with hi steer is just move the bar to the passenger upper leaf spring perch. Note the truck pictured has around 20 inches of lift so the tabs will most likely not need to be 6 inches tall as pictured but you get the idea. Just match your drag link angle and you'll be golden.

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That track bar bracket will snap clean off the upper u-bolt bracket at the welds. I tried that exact idea on my 04 D60 swapped OBS (10" lift on 38's). Worked for all of about 10 miles in the trails before the casting failed. Welds and bracket were still intact. My solution was to just build a whole new, all-in-one upper u-bolt bracket/track arm mount. Been fine for 5+ years.
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