Editorial: Driving while Intoxicated - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Land Use and Trails > Fordyce Creek
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-01-2007, 12:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Tinman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Member # 21358
Location: Georgetown, Ca
Posts: 1,577
Editorial: Driving while Intoxicated

I do not want the FOF to be in the position of becoming an enforcement group for moral behavior. Our main focus is and will remain trail etiquette, maintenance and legal issues but during our run last weekend I observed some stuff that I feel I must comment on. I don't know if drinking on the trail is on the rise or I am just now more aware but I have seen what I perceive as a rise of drinking while driving and downright driving while drunk. That being said I do feel this is a case of a few isolated individuals or clubs lack of judgement.

I personally tried to help one individual that was stuck on Winch Hill 3 and he was so drunk he could not understand what I was saying. I was hoping his friends would help but they, for the most part were in no better shape. I did try to get him to exit the vehicle but had no luck. Even his friends could not accomplish that. Luckily one of them was broken and they had to stop and spend the night. Another in our group came upon a driver that had to bypass because of a stuck vehicle in the group. That person drove off trail and was drunk as well. Then he became abusive when told his driving was not appropriate after hitting several trees.

A lot of us like to tip a few at the end of a great day of wheeling after we are in camp for the evening. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe even stopping for lunch on the trail and having a beer or two. I am not going to comment on that. Each person must judge what is appropriate for themelves and others in their group.

What is not appropriate is to let your friends endanger themselves and others by driving down the trail, beer in hand and being totally incapable of directing their vehicle. I will stand a little more errect on my soapbox now and state that each of us has the responsibility to comment to our friends or even others when we see this kind of behavior. Drinking and driving and driving while intoxicated are both crimes and neither action is right. These are the kinds of things that will focus attention of the worse kind on the off road community.

I haven't yet decided if I personally need to take pictures and report this kind of behavior. I probably should. My purpose in writing this, my first editorial is to get all of us thinking about our future use of our trails and how we can best ensure our continued access.

Thanks for bearing with me on this,

Bret

Last edited by Tinman; 07-06-2007 at 10:18 AM.
Tinman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-01-2007, 12:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Rubicrawler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Member # 2037
Location: Brentwood, CA 150 mi. from the 'Con
Posts: 4,508
Well said Bret.
__________________
Mark Langford
KI6TMK


'86 CJ7, ProRock60's, 4.88's/Detroits/35 Spline Alloys/CTM's, TBI 350, 700R4, 4:1 D300 w/Twin Stick, 17" x 8.5" Trail Ready HD Aluminum beadlocks, 37x13.5x17 Toyo MT's

Dysfunctional Rockcrawlers (TDO)

Wheelers for the Wounded of California
Rubicrawler is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 06-01-2007, 01:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
Rock God
 
IV WHLN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Member # 19005
Location: Roseville, Ca.
Posts: 1,051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubicrawler View Post
Well said Bret.
x2
IV WHLN is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-01-2007, 07:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
Granite Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Member # 53626
Location: sac, ca
Posts: 557
Send a message via Yahoo to jtraver
Thanks Bret. I agree that putting yourself and others in danger and risking what could be a fatal accident needs to end.
__________________
KI6ZGG

For the best deal on 8 lug disc brakes click here--> www.lugnut4x4.com
jtraver is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-01-2007, 08:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
Rock God
 
supervert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Member # 63840
Location: olivehurst
Posts: 1,130
my first trip to fordyce was last weekend and i could not believe how many people were trashed. one guy lost his brakes in a taco when trying to clim up the side of the winch hill where the wagen wheel is and lost his brakes and rolled backwords about 200 ft before a tent stoped him. thank god that knowbody was in it. its one thing having a drink or two but getting smashed to the piont where you dont know what your name is, is'nt right.
supervert is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-01-2007, 10:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Tinman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Member # 21358
Location: Georgetown, Ca
Posts: 1,577
Word!
Tinman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2007, 06:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Member # 404
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Posts: 391
Bret,

This is exactly the right subject for a first editorial. I too am not anti alcohol but the type of behavior described here is what is going to do us in. If you want an all day animal house kegger, do it somewhere else. You won't remember the trail anyhow.
__________________
Pete Newell 89 4RNR SAS W/ all the goodies. KJ6CXI
Toys on the Rocks FOTR CA4WDC TLCA BRC NRA AMA
chartdog is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2007, 07:56 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Member # 78830
Location: Sonora, CA, Modesto, CA
Posts: 410
just by chance saw this thread. I think it should be under General, because it is being done at almost every trail out there. & the whole rockstar thing don't apply (I play better when I am drunk.......I wheel better when I am drunk)

Thanks for standing up & saying somethin...

& just to add, it seems usually the most drunken ones are the ones that leave the biggest mess behind (I.E. not cleaning up after rollovers, cleaning up camp, cleaning morning after puke & shit athons wich always seem to be in the middle of the trail)
__________________
69 fj40, 44boggers, 305/350/203/205, fabco front center diff, Eaton rear locked F+R
basspro is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2007, 09:08 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Member # 63600
Posts: 117
I personally think pictures and names SHOULD be posted. Put them in such a light than no one will associate with them. those who do will carry the same stigma.
rlwjaw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2007, 11:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Member # 51692
Location: Flat Top MTN,TN
Posts: 1,781
Send a message via ICQ to rocknbronco Send a message via Yahoo to rocknbronco
I cant stand drunken folks on the trails they dont know how bad they make responsible wheeling look and how stupid they act or damage they cause. I say post the photos
__________________
Space for rent sold it all....
rocknbronco is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2007, 09:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Member # 29
Location: Redwood City
Posts: 5,206
OK, I will give my opinino here. Take this from somneone who USED to drink a LOT on the trail... That was downright STUPID!!!!!! As I got older, I realized that the beer is still goiong to be ther at the end of the day., In the days since, i DON'T drink at all unless I am having lunch (1 or 2 beers),or when I get to camp. Last time I was on Fordyce there was a DRUNK ass kid there (I am ashamed to say he was in the group with us, but would no listen). We tred to tell him to stop, but he would not listen. We split off from the group the next day after they brought out guns and started shooting up their rig... Talk about stupid. I WILL take pictures of rigs where the people are obviosly hammerd. If someone is just drinking and is obvioulsy sober, no big deal.

Dima
__________________
1974 FJ40 in the works
2006 F250 crew cab longbed powerstroke for towing duties
Flatty is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-02-2007, 10:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
trousertrout666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Member # 84864
Location: SAC, CA
Posts: 93
Send a message via AIM to trousertrout666
wheeling while drunk and drinking while wheeling should be and I believe IS immediate grounds for DUI, and should be handled accordingly. In my opinion, it's more dangerous than driving drunk out in the regular world. If somebody gets seriously hurt because of you, you're not 10 mins from a hospital, or 3 mins from paramedics that'll come get you and take care of you. It's ridiculously stupid, and should be punished brutally.
__________________
[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Red"]"I love the smell of napalm in the mornin'"[/COLOR][/FONT]
trousertrout666 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-03-2007, 07:31 AM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Member # 51692
Location: Flat Top MTN,TN
Posts: 1,781
Send a message via ICQ to rocknbronco Send a message via Yahoo to rocknbronco
Shooting there own rigs what a group of tards
__________________
Space for rent sold it all....
rocknbronco is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-03-2007, 09:02 AM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Member # 24859
Location: Where ever my wife says
Posts: 4,658
IMO when drunks drive it endangers others on the road or trail. It is IMO your duty to call out and expose these tards. The drinkers need to know that it is o.k. for someone to put them in check to protect others around. if they get loud and dumb just shut em down. It is not worth it to let the drunk carry on, to many things at stake.
__________________
Mellonhead
peesalot is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-03-2007, 11:52 AM   #15 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Gunmetalcruz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6569
Location: Tahoe City,Ca.
Posts: 4,139
just remember the more on the board the more ammo for the other side. If something needs to be handled do it off the board.
__________________
Team FOH# 321
Gunmetalcruz is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-03-2007, 04:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Member # 21636
Location: Orangevale, CA
Posts: 507
Send a message via AIM to BlackWidowCJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocknbronco View Post
I cant stand drunken folks on the trails they dont know how bad they make responsible wheeling look and how stupid they act or damage they cause. I say post the photos
I see just as many sober people being stupid and making the sport look bad. I drink on the trail but I don't need to get trashed to have fun. You know the saying "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" same applies with alcohol. If you cant be responsible then maybe yes actions should be taken and that goes for drinking, carrying a fire arm or driving wrecklessly. The way I look at it is on the trail there is a diffrence beween drinking and driving and driving drunk, one of those two I do not do. I see the concern here but it goes further than alcohol... Regaurdless certain behavior isn't appropriate drinking or not. In no way am I saying I'm right, this is just how I feel about it.

Last edited by BlackWidowCJ; 06-03-2007 at 04:05 PM.
BlackWidowCJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-03-2007, 04:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Member # 51692
Location: Flat Top MTN,TN
Posts: 1,781
Send a message via ICQ to rocknbronco Send a message via Yahoo to rocknbronco
True non intoxicated people foul it up as well but I am one of the few whom has to go out and bring back the drunken individuals after a crash and patch em up or have to go put out a forest fire they started from a camp fire.
__________________
Space for rent sold it all....
rocknbronco is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-03-2007, 07:29 PM   #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Member # 63600
Posts: 117
To blackwidowcj , I for one hope you get a ticket and your vehicle impounded for drinking while driving even if it is on the trail.
Dick Wentworth
rlwjaw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-03-2007, 11:10 PM   #19 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Tinman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Member # 21358
Location: Georgetown, Ca
Posts: 1,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWidowCJ View Post
I see just as many sober people being stupid and making the sport look bad. I drink on the trail but I don't need to get trashed to have fun. You know the saying "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" same applies with alcohol. If you cant be responsible then maybe yes actions should be taken and that goes for drinking, carrying a fire arm or driving wrecklessly. The way I look at it is on the trail there is a diffrence beween drinking and driving and driving drunk, one of those two I do not do. I see the concern here but it goes further than alcohol... Regaurdless certain behavior isn't appropriate drinking or not. In no way am I saying I'm right, this is just how I feel about it.
Well, I agree and disagree.

Drinking while driving is wrong. Drinking and driving after if not drunk is a judgement call but never a good idea.

I will agree that there is a lot of other behavior that has nothing to do with drinking that is equally as bad and should not happen.

Examples:

Driving off trail.

Not using a toilet or digging a latrene.

Picking a fight for no reason.

Being plain obnoxious (loud at night, etc.)

Just because one is out in the forest doesn't mean it's a free for all.

That's reserved for the Hammers!

This was said as a joke but a good friend pointed out it was not a good idea to joke like this so I am editing it out with this explanation.

Thanks Jes. You are right. Never a good idea to allow a free for all!

Last edited by Tinman; 07-08-2007 at 06:56 PM.
Tinman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-04-2007, 12:19 AM   #20 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Member # 21636
Location: Orangevale, CA
Posts: 507
Send a message via AIM to BlackWidowCJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlwjaw View Post
To blackwidowcj , I for one hope you get a ticket and your vehicle impounded for drinking while driving even if it is on the trail.
Dick Wentworth
Thanks "DICK"
BlackWidowCJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-04-2007, 03:09 PM   #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
patfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Member # 31612
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 150
Excellent post and well said.

What this really comes down to is responsibility and consideration. Doesn't matter if it's an illegal, DUI, or legal, playing your music loud enough to disturb others around you, activity. There are people that will constantly be responsible and considerate of others and make the correct choices. Then there are those that will not and do not. Some of us fall more to one side or the other.

I believe that the irresponsible inconsiderate ones are in the minority but they can do enough damage to ruin it for all of us. Unfortunately there is not much an individual can do except try to talk some "sense" into these people. Confrontation can become dangerous. Picture taking and prosecution for resource damage is one solution. Education about responsible, considerate behavior is another.
__________________
Pat
___________________________________
With great power comes great responsibility

98 TJ, 60/44, 37" Iroks, ARB's, 5.13's, blah, blah, blah, etc.

Last edited by patfo; 06-04-2007 at 03:10 PM.
patfo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-04-2007, 05:04 PM   #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
JohnDF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Member # 23641
Location: Loomis, Ca
Posts: 212
Drinking and driving is just stupid. Save it for camp or home.
JohnDF is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-06-2007, 09:44 AM   #23 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
cruzila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6650
Location: Garden Valley
Posts: 5,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWidowCJ View Post
Thanks "DICK"
Show some respect. Don't come in to my Rubicon forum with that tude. You have all but admitted to drinking and driving in a public forum. Are you 12??

Brett, I heard rumor of an incident recently involving your club. When it is all over I do hope names will be posted here. Heads on a pike. That's what we need. From the story I heard, that was pretty much handed to you. Someones business could suffer from this greatly.

Also, remember as a mod you have the power to band at you fangertips.

Scott
__________________
Scott Johnston
Rubicon Trail Foundation
Founding Director
Past President 2010-2012
Retired Director 2004-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by resqme View Post
Punctuation eludes you.
cruzila is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-06-2007, 08:31 PM   #24 (permalink)
popeye
 
yotee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Member # 20027
Location: mount wannahockaloogie
Posts: 2,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatty View Post
OK, I will give my opinino here. Take this from somneone who USED to drink a LOT on the trail... That was downright STUPID!!!!!! As I got older, I realized that the beer is still goiong to be ther at the end of the day., In the days since, i DON'T drink at all unless I am having lunch (1 or 2 beers),or when I get to camp. Last time I was on Fordyce there was a DRUNK ass kid there (I am ashamed to say he was in the group with us, but would no listen). We tred to tell him to stop, but he would not listen. We split off from the group the next day after they brought out guns and started shooting up their rig... Talk about stupid. I WILL take pictures of rigs where the people are obviosly hammerd. If someone is just drinking and is obvioulsy sober, no big deal.

Dima
dima, do you have a hard time letting things go? last year when the incident occoured that you are refering to happened, you hounded the kid on two boards(to my knowledge). he was severly yelled at by the "grown ups" that he normally wheels with for the "one incedent" you and your brother witnessed. back then you had him banned from the marlin board for "throwing beer cans in the camp fire" and "throwing his trash out on the trail". how did you witness any of this while you were towling(sp? to towle ones vehicle off) the truck down? now i do not condone making a mess out of our trails(but from the parties that i spoke with, that you didn't hound on the interweb, that were there you were no better with your bottles in the fire).

and as i understand it, it was a hood that was shot all in good fun and not "shooting his runner up" like you make it sound.

i do not aprove of drunk driving on the trail as much as i do not aprove of adults acting like children almost a year after an incident happened. dude did wrong and manned up to it. he also dosen't act like this any more. your continually following him around on the interweb and telling him to act like an adult while you act like a vindictive child is not cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by flatty
Take this from somneone who USED to drink a LOT on the trail....
does this mean that we should follow you around saying how you used to be a TRAIL DRUNK?

dude back off of the kid, he did about the same as you admitted to doing, but no one is following you around the web giving you shit. the shit last year at fordyce is over and dealt with move on.

ps i will pm you my number if you feel this needs any futher discussion.




mike
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragqueen5000 View Post
I'm not sure if it was because I was drunk or what

Last edited by yotee; 06-07-2007 at 04:05 PM. Reason: edited name out
yotee is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-07-2007, 08:03 AM   #25 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Tinman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Member # 21358
Location: Georgetown, Ca
Posts: 1,577
Mike, Dima,

As Mike suggested I think it's a good idea if you take any further conversation on this off line. The personal stuff doesn't really have anything to do with the thread except to demonstrate how much of a problem drinking on the trail can be.

Mike, it might be a good idea to edit your post to remove the fellow's name. Up until that point he was just that "kid."

Bret
Tinman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.