Donate to CA4WDC to offset the loss or funding due to cancelled Trek!

[rino]

The Sierra Trek is the major funding for CA4WDC.
Because it Trek is cancelled CA4WDC will lose a bucket of money.
Let’s show our support and refuse your refund for the 2007 Sierra Trek.
On top of that let’s donate what we can to CA4WDC to help keep our trails open.

I have been wheeling for over 33 years and just starting concerning myself with land issues.

The more I surf/read/listen the angrier I have become.
Sure I heard the people talking about it, sure I showed concern, but I never did anything.

I was a member of CA4WDC, FOTR, and a local 4WD club and thought that was good.

Well I hate to say I have been the IDOIT with my head in the sand.
Last week I joined the BlueRibbon Coalition and donated money.
Last week I donated to FOTR, CA4WDC, bought t-shirts, stickers and donated to Del Albright.

I am not a wealthy person and my wife is always concerned with my jeep habit.
I work hard for my money and would much rather be spending what money I have on jeep parts, (Heck I am still running a D30 in the front with 35” tires and a V8) but I see this is very important and I cannot keep wishing it will go away.

So I ask each of you to donate what you can before it is too late.
Because if we do not donate now later will be too late.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

I hope you pass this along to anyone that enjoys the great outdoors.

Bob

[mc5cent]

Done deal. I'll buy a few more shirts while I'm at it.

If you haven't joined CA4WDC at least do that. You get some stickers and a monthly magazine.

[tdavis]

How much was it supposed to cost?

I didn't sign up for the Trek, but with the heat rising, I am ready to send $$$.

[rockwrangler]

I for one welcome you guys and Gal's. Supporting BRC,Cal4 and others only help us all. There are some meetings coming up that we can use your support at. Get involved and do what you can!!! Doing nothing hurts us all.

Agian Welcome

[SCHooch]

Originally Posted by tdavis

How much was it supposed to cost?

I didn't sign up for the Trek, but with the heat rising, I am ready to send $$$.

I dont know what the total is, depends on the runs you signed up for. Just send in what $ you can, also join all the access groups you can.

[rino]

The cost was $160.00 per person for Adults and $40.00 for Children.

[JeepRecoveryTeam]

So let me get this straight. You want to donate more money to an orginization whose mission is to keep trails open. Because they failed to keep 'the' trail open that mattered the most to their bottom line.


Just want to check the facts.

[camo]

Originally Posted by JeepRecoveryTeam

So let me get this straight. You want to donate more money to an orginization whose mission is to keep trails open. Because they failed to keep 'the' trail open that mattered the most to their bottom line.


Just want to check the facts.

glad I am not the only A-hole that had that same thought.

[mikecj5cj8]

Originally Posted by JeepRecoveryTeam

So let me get this straight. You want to donate more money to an orginization whose mission is to keep trails open. Because they failed to keep 'the' trail open that mattered the most to their bottom line.


Just want to check the facts.

I think based on the nature of the conditions currently in the TNF, they had to make a decision. The fact that the fire the TNF had was so devastating recently, they decided that the lives of people were more important than the event itself. What do you think the reaction would be if a fire broke out during the event and there was a catastropic loss of life?? How would you feel?

[rino]

Originally Posted by JeepRecoveryTeam

So let me get this straight. You want to donate more money to an orginization whose mission is to keep trails open. Because they failed to keep 'the' trail open that mattered the most to their bottom line.


Just want to check the facts.

Not to start a flaming war, but this is just what the greenies love, for us to give up and stay home.

I really hoped to keep this thread on the positive side to support our cause.

I am glad I do not think like you, oh shit CA4WDC blew it so forget about them.

Along your train of thought you must not donate to anything.

I say this because we are losing trails right and left and any organizations fighting these battles is losing.

Sorry, but more money is what it is going to take to fight these battles and I and my freinds are giving all we can!

[Trailer Guy]

Originally Posted by camo

glad I am not the only A-hole that had that same thought.

Nope, you're not the only A-hole. I do what I can for them, but they (the higher ups through the years) have really burned their bridge with many of us from this part of Cali. I'll go to their web site and sign up my 4x4 business to help out. This type of problem along with a solution should have been thought about years ago. I mean, no one is donating to my business because a special order trailer was not taken by a customer.

[steveh]

Originally Posted by JeepRecoveryTeam

So let me get this straight. You want to donate more money to an orginization whose mission is to keep trails open. Because they failed to keep 'the' trail open that mattered the most to their bottom line.


Just want to check the facts.

Dave, I know how hard you guys work and how much you all contribute to the cause. Cal 4wheel does more that you know. It's really counter productive to cast doubt on a good organization without having all the facts.

It's in a case like this that it is vital we give the benefit of the doubt, not the other way around.

We can all argue all we want, it won't change the decisions of Cal 4wd or the USFS this year.

What we can do is become more united, and not let what has happened cause more dissension in the ranks.

How many wake up calls do we all need before we realize we have to sync up and pull together to preserve our rights to enjoy public lands.

[JeepRecoveryTeam]

Originally Posted by rino

Not to start a flaming war, but this is just what the greenies love, for us to give up and stay home.

The last thing I'm doing is staying home.

I've chaired an event for two of the last four years that has raised and donated over 50k directly to keeping trails open. We also pulled some 20 odd tons of garbage off of the trails while we were doing it.

I am extremely frustrated by the inability of the various 'action' groups to work together. Everyone wants to be 'the man', instead of being a part of the winning team.

As far fueling the 'greenies' by questioning our own... deal with it. I'll be damned if I'm going to blindly donate money to an orginization that has all but completley ignored the entire southern half of the state. I was told directly by Ed Reed that both Surprise Canyon and Johnson Valley were both areas that Cal4Wheel did not see the need to be a part of.

Great, so they focused on Fordyce. I've got no problem with that. But when you fail to succeed in the one place that you're focusing on. That's an issue.

As far as this event starting a masssive forest fire.

The event can't start a fire. Irresponsible people doing Irresponsible things can. Cal4Wheel 'HAD' the opportunity to effect positive change.

They dropped the ball. AGAIN.

[mikecj5cj8]

Originally Posted by JeepRecoveryTeam

As far as this event starting a masssive forest fire.

The event can't start a fire. Irresponsible people doing Irresponsible things can. Cal4Wheel 'HAD' the opportunity to effect positive change.

They dropped the ball. AGAIN.

Out of 1500 people or so, all it takes is one irresponsible person to toss out a lit cigarette and who will the finger and lawsuits point at??...............CA4wheeldrive. I think it is more of a safety issue than anything else. Maybe I'm missing something as I don't know the politics if any behind the scene.

[randii]

Originally Posted by Trailer Guy

Nope, you're not the only A-hole. I do what I can for them, but they (the higher ups through the years) have really burned their bridge with many of us from this part of Cali.

They have burned bridges, but dang it, this is OUR organization. We are 4-wheelers, and we are in CA/NV... if you disagree with something, then step up and get involved to change it.

I have a lot of respect for folks like Dave, Erik, and Aaron who aren't thrilled with Cal4... there are politics within it that *I* ain't thrilled with, either... but I'm committed to work with them, since there's no other state-level organization directed specifically at 4-wheelers. I think Dave nails the biggest problem -- most want to be top dog, and few are well-committed to working together to be part of the winning team. Look in the mirror (all of you) -- are *YOU* working together with others?

Randii

[TRT2]

All valid points shared here... and just because you take exception to one organization does not mean you cannot support your favorite. Don't want to give your coin to CA4WD, then donate it to Tinman and Friends of Fordyce, or donate it directly to Del and Friends of the Rubicon. Don't want those, then donate to Blue Ribbon Coalition or the myriad of others that are out there.

I believe the point was, if you can afford it, use your registration fee productively.

Yes, we are all frustrated over the closure, but as an event chairman myself, I believe the team made the correct decision to cancel the event this year, regardless of the individual hardship it will certainly cause.

Lets stay safe, lets stay focused, lets stay involved, and most important of all, lets stay friends in our chosen sport.

[NVScouter]

I think based on the nature of the conditions currently in the TNF, they had to make a decision. The fact that the fire the TNF had was so devastating recently, they decided that the lives of people were more important than the event itself. What do you think the reaction would be if a fire broke out during the event and there was a catastropic loss of life?? How would you feel?

Calling Bullshit.

My friend and I both cut alot of firewood each year and are always looking for new areas ran this the last weekend it was open. On the way in, around the campground(meadow lake), and the entire way through the trail we were amazed at the ammount of uncut dead wood. A lot of it was fallen and more was prime to be felled.

So here is why I call Bullshit: If CA4WDC durring fire-risk times it should have gotten that cleaned up THIS SPRING or LAST FALL. They should be working with USFS, TNF, SPPC, and the other groups (Tinman's cleanup specifily asked us to bring our saws). The whole area is a tinderbox waiting to go, and the problem is very visable to anybody running the trail. A couple weeks before the event in the midst of fire season is not the time to start screwing around with this. So back to the above bread and butter remark....what are CA4WDC doing with the Sierra Trek money if they arent using it to keep the trails open and events running?

The fire that was mentioned was man-made and impacted a small populated area that the housing associations and TNF set up for failure by not allowing tree removal. The area residents mostly gave up the fight years ago and see what it's got them. The rule of thumb is clear 40 feet in every dirrection, most of those places couldnt clear 10 feet.

[mikecj5cj8]

Originally Posted by NVScouter

Calling Bullshit.

My friend and I both cut alot of firewood each year and are always looking for new areas ran this the last weekend it was open. On the way in, around the campground(meadow lake), and the entire way through the trail we were amazed at the ammount of uncut dead wood. A lot of it was fallen and more was prime to be felled.

So here is why I call Bullshit: If CA4WDC durring fire-risk times it should have gotten that cleaned up THIS SPRING or LAST FALL. They should be working with USFS, TNF, SPPC, and the other groups (Tinman's cleanup specifily asked us to bring our saws). The whole area is a tinderbox waiting to go, and the problem is very visable to anybody running the trail. A couple weeks before the event in the midst of fire season is not the time to start screwing around with this. So back to the above bread and butter remark....what are CA4WDC doing with the Sierra Trek money if they arent using it to keep the trails open and events running?

The fire that was mentioned was man-made and impacted a small populated area that the housing associations and TNF set up for failure by not allowing tree removal. The area residents mostly gave up the fight years ago and see what it's got them. The rule of thumb is clear 40 feet in every dirrection, most of those places couldnt clear 10 feet.

Okay, so what is your theory on why they cancelled thier biggest fundraiser of the year a month before the event. Just to thumb thier noses at the participant's?

[Lance]

Originally Posted by mikecj5cj8

Out of 1500 people or so, all it takes is one irresponsible person to toss out a lit cigarette and who will the finger and lawsuits point at??...............CA4wheeldrive. I think it is more of a safety issue than anything else. Maybe I'm missing something as I don't know the politics if any behind the scene.

Quick question... What if a forest fire would have broken out at last year's Sierra Trek?

[mikecj5cj8]

Originally Posted by Lance

Quick question... What if a forest fire would have broken out at last year's Sierra Trek?

What if? then there could of been a disaster then, and the year before and the year before, etc...... I don't think the CA4DC or the forest service paid much attention to the issue at hand til the recent fire. Am I missing something here? Do you not think that there will be a Sierra Trek next year if we have a wet winter?

[JeepRecoveryTeam]

Originally Posted by mikecj5cj8

Okay, so what is your theory on why they cancelled thier biggest fundraiser of the year a month before the event. Just to thumb thier noses at the participant's?

Maybe because they are ineffective at being advocates for public access to public lands.

Maybe because as stated before, too little was done too late to proactively protect the land.

And maybe, nothing could be done no matter how effective they are. The bottom line is, the goverments reaction to almost every situation they have faced is to limit access.

What if in lieu of Sierra Trek, we send the same number of people up there to truly maintain the trail, thereby mitigating the risk of destroying the resources.

That would take leadership. That would take sacrifice. That would take an eye for the greater good and not the greater bank account.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by mikecj5cj8

Out of 1500 people or so, all it takes is one irresponsible person to toss out a lit cigarette and who will the finger and lawsuits point at??...............CA4wheeldrive. I think it is more of a safety issue than anything else. Maybe I'm missing something as I don't know the politics if any behind the scene.

Well with your logic, what would make this year different than in any year's past? A forest fire could have happened easily last year, or the year before, or the year before, etc... It didn't..... Why would this year be any different? Because it's drier? I'm just not buying it...

Originally Posted by mikecj5cj8

What if? then there could of been a disaster then, and the year before and the year before, etc...... I don't think the CA4DC or the forest service paid much attention to the issue at hand til the recent fire. Am I missing something here? Do you not think that there will be a Sierra Trek next year if we have a wet winter?

So even though it's never happened before in the history of Sierra Trek (or the 55 years of Jeeper's Jamboree, for that matter) you're ok with the trail being closed and Trek getting cancelled because "we didn't have a wet winter" whenever the FS feels like it?

I'm not trying to bash Cal4Wheel here, I'm just tossing out the random thoughts I'm having... I'm pissed at the USFS, not Cal 4Wheel. But I will be donating my money to FOF and FOTR.

[mikecj5cj8]

No, I am not okay with it but, I think the CA4dc was put between a rock and hard place by the forest service. I think if the Angora fire had not happened then, Sierra Trek would have gone off without any flak from the forest service whatsoever.

[UGET IT]

I'll keep my Cal4WD comments to myself................

If I was a paid participant and was ask to give the money back I would ask for a detailed list on what it would be used for.

I think its only fair to ask the right questions with request like this.

KC

[GRIDWNC]

Originally Posted by mikecj5cj8

Okay, so what is your theory on why they cancelled thier biggest fundraiser of the year a month before the event. Just to thumb thier noses at the participant's?

Here's the reasons why from the "cancellation notice we got:

" . . . Don Klusman, primarily, had several conversations with
various TNF officials concerning the requirements of a
fire plan for Sierra Trek, which would be a permitted
operation.

Among the items required by a fire plan were:

- Complete Inspection of each participant's vehicle
exhaust system.

- Each vehicle would be required to carry 10 gallons
of water.

- Each vehicle would be required to be equipped with a
5 lb ABC fire extinguisher.

- We would have to provide "trail walkers" who, at 2-3
hour intervals would inspect the trail for fires.

- We, in camp, would have several small issues
concerning the barbeque trailer and our ground-level
propane stoves

The major concern, of course, is for the trail,
itself.

Resultant impacts on the Trail Committee would
include:

- No welding (probably would result in vehicles being
left on the trail until replacement parts could be
procured, since we could not repair them enough to get
them off the trail - also, participants that have
welding capability would probably use their capability
to fix themselves and their freinds without letting us
know

- We would be inspecting vehicles for exhaust system
compliance - How many, especially older CJ's are
running headers with glass pack mufflers under the
rocker panels? - we would have to determine if they
have a legal spark-arresting exhaust system. In the
case of newer vehicles, we would have to assure that
the factory shields for the catalytic converters were
intact....Then comes the confrontation with the owner
when they are found non-compliant.

- The participants would have to bring their 10
gallons of water and the 5 lb ABC extinguisher. How
many would show up without one or both, regardless of
how well we publicized the requirement, and again, the
confrontation...

There is no guarantee, that if we moved forward and
created the fire plan, that the forest will not move
into stage III, which would close off the permitees.
Major nonrefundable monies were to be spent this week
for the purchase of the food ($30k) and T-shirts ($?).

If a fire should break out in the area, we would have
to evacuate 1000+ people, most likely leaving behind
RV's, etc.

If the fire would be caused by one of our
participants, we would be responsible for the cost of
the fire. Goodby, CA4WDC!

So, the decision was not lightly made to cut our
losses.

The anouncement is that Sierra Trek is cancelled by
mutual agreement with the Tahoe NF in the interest of
public safety and increasing fire danger.

. . . ."