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Old 11-10-2010, 02:55 PM   #76 (permalink)
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I was up there the end of Oct., and was pleased with all of the hard work everyone put in. I thought it was a nice piece of trail, not to difficult, not to easy. After all we are going up there to go wheeling, arent we? I think if you cant negotiate your way up and down this section of trail, you probably shouldnt be on the trail.
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:32 AM   #77 (permalink)
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I was up yesterday and both of the blockades are still intact. They don't look as substantial as before they were knocked down but at least people are sticking to the trail. We also watched a Toyota tow a broken full size Dodge out and they did just fine.

Thanks to everyone who worked so hard on the new route and the blockades. And thanks to everyone for staying on the new trail.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:05 AM   #78 (permalink)
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...bringing old thread back up... I didn't want to clog up the 'Pictures' thread.

Quote stolen from pic thread:
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Originally Posted by DEER TICK View Post
I just got back from Fordyce lake,and running the Committee trail.Here is a picture of the old trail comming down the hill.It doesn"t even look blocked.I can see were people that aren't aware, would want to take that path.It has to be blocked with a real block.What RCKRATZ is talking about is the only solution.Dump some BIG trees.Ones that a KOH rig can't even get over...It's obvious that trynig to block it again,and again is not working.For some reason,people want to take the easy path,even though it has logs accross it.I just don't get it.Isn't the harder route more fun?That's why we wheel,right?

Done with my rant.......

I was on the trail Oct 21-23. We broke a rig just past WH3, and turned around and wanted to head out committee trail. I was new to the trail. By the time we made the committee water crossing, I was towing a partially disabled Jeep, and behind me was a Bronco pulling another partially disabled Jeep. I was in lead. We started the climb up, and got to the point of where the 'old' route intersects what I now know to be the re-route. We saw the sign on the tree past the 'Y', but it was close enough that it was confusing as to which route was the trail. We walked up the 'old' route a bit to see if it was the trail or not--there was no blockage or anything keeping tiny tires from trying it. I chose to go what looked like the more used route (the re-route) and we started climbing up over the ledges and were at the base of the shelf part, and all was going fine until some traffic came down the re-route and told us to turn around and take the 'old' route up the hill--that it was easier for us with broken stuff. So we did, and went up the 'old' route without issues or blockage or any sign that folks shouldn't be there. I had read a bunch of stuff (this thread, actually), but not knowing the lay of the land for the trail, there was no way someone would have any clue to not go up or down the 'old' trail.

I really enjoyed my first trip on Fordyce and look forward to helping out on work weekends and such to get to know & enjoy the area more!

-Mark
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:22 AM   #79 (permalink)
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There has to be some BIG "widow makers" around there that can be downed to block the trail.
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:11 AM   #80 (permalink)
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There has to be some BIG "widow makers" around there that can be downed to block the trail.
That's just it, PG&E hasnt allowed us to cut dead standing in the area. Early next year we are going to have to get them out there to do it for us
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:28 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Everyone please understand that this re-route was not done in any effort to make the trail different, harder, or easier. It was done at the request and agreement with PG&E whom owns the land, and the USFS. I understand that for someone not familiar with the trail that the change is hard to understand. Problem is that even those whom know the trail are treating this change like it was an done simply to change the trail, not that it was done in an effort to preserve our access and use of this road. Because the original trail that is being bypassed is mostly dirt and under the trees, therefore almost always wet, it is eroding to the point that is was becoming a real concern. And re-routing to a hard base was the only solution.
We will continue our efforts to block the old route, as we have done multiple times before. Our last attempt was partially foiled by an early snow that severely hampered our success.
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:52 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Everyone please understand that this re-route was not done in any effort to make the trail different, harder, or easier. It was done at the request and agreement with PG&E whom owns the land, and the USFS. I understand that for someone not familiar with the trail that the change is hard to understand. Problem is that even those whom know the trail are treating this change like it was an done simply to change the trail, not that it was done in an effort to preserve our access and use of this road. Because the original trail that is being bypassed is mostly dirt and under the trees, therefore almost always wet, it is eroding to the point that is was becoming a real concern. And re-routing to a hard base was the only solution.
We will continue our efforts to block the old route, as we have done multiple times before. Our last attempt was partially foiled by an early snow that severely hampered our success.
I agree 100% that the re-route is the right thing. My reason for bringing this up was simply that 'on the ground' there is no way to know that one shouldn't drive up the old route. Also, that fellow wheelers don't know everything that goes on the forums, so as well meaning as they are, don't know themselves that they shouldn't be driving there.... I know this is old news, but I thought it should be brought up again-as I had my own learning curve when I was there.

Thanks again for all those maintaining the trail, it's fun place to recreate! I look forward to spending time up there working with ya.

-Mark
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:56 PM   #83 (permalink)
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I am the partially disabled Jeep Mark was hauling up the trail Oct, 21 - 23. Thought the trail was great, and enjoyed the re-route as far as we went up it. From reading the forum, it sounds as if the re-route has been more clearly marked/blocked now, but on that trip, there was no form of blockade present any longer. We had both heard that there was a re-route and attempted to make the right decision. Sounds like we did until we were turned around by another rig coming down the trail towards us. Anyhow, re-route good, old trail bad. We had very little difficulty climbing up the re-route that weekend. I had broken my front passenger side axle just after WH3. We had a strap on the back of Mark's Toyota to assist when necessary on our way up Committee. I was able to climb all the obstacles on Committee with very little assistance in 3 wheel drive. Was also my first trip on Fordyce. What an excellent trail. Can't wait to get back out there, to play and help out.

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Old 11-16-2011, 09:00 AM   #84 (permalink)
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Most of us agree that the we need better signage. We are planning on installing these in the spring. As far blocking the old route all we can do, for now, is work with what we have on the ground. We clearly have a cycle happening. People volunteer their time to block the old route – someone says F/U and makes a choice to blow through it – the trail becomes difficult to see – people start driving off trail. Come spring I am hopeful we can make the needed changes to close improper route for the last time.

Also it’s been long enough to start calling the “re-route” the “trail”. Anything else is off-trail or the old route. Subtle change in nomenclature.
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:28 AM   #85 (permalink)
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I may catch crap for this, but what about something more like a log fence vs piles of wood? They could be anchored/chained to one another, with signage or arrows pointing the direction you need to go.

Similar to this:

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Old 11-16-2011, 11:34 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Mike,

IMO something like that will be driven over the first weekend it's out there. The idea is to create a barrier that is just too much work to deal with. Not so much a wall but rather 200 yards of big ass trees crossing the trail. Something visual that will make people contemplating going that way say “fawk that”.

Keep in mind we have had multiple 6' plus log walls driven around, over or winched out of the way.
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:04 PM   #87 (permalink)
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what about dragging a crap ton of logs down from the slide area. leave them long 20-30'. if we skidded 15-20 of them down the hill and plugged up the old trail (the steep part) with them to the point where there was no way around. then pile the smaller stuff in further from that and at the bottom skid a half a dozen 20+ ' logs down and jamb up things there too. that would probably go a long ways.


6' worth of logs doesnt mean much but 30 or 60' worth of impassable blockage along with more debris might through out the trail area go further. the problem i see is the path behind the current blockage at the top still looks like a trail below and behind the sign is still visably usable. block the steep section to the point where it's impossible to ever try and circum navigate around the blockage and make a large blockage at the bottom. i think that will make it pointless to attempt and travel up the old section and people will grow tired of clearing the lower section only to discover multiple debris blocks and a huge 30-60' wall of logs at the top.

plus with proper camoflauge that lower section should become hard to distinguish. right now the old tire tracks are still too visable and enticing. i imagine the FS might give us a few lowly mazanita bushes to transplant into the middle of the path.
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Old 11-16-2011, 01:48 PM   #88 (permalink)
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The most recent blocking work done on the top end of the trail in October by FOF/FourDice 4x4 club. It was a great block/very obvious.

Unfortunately, there wasn't a block at the bottom of the old section of trail.

The only signage is a pic of a jeep w/an arrow pointing left 20' on a tree where your supposed to turn left.

I was going up it at dusk, and was tired & actually missed the left turn at first. I realized it after about 20 feet. This is because the left turn goes up a steep rock slab.

The "un-done" occurred that same evening by a group of rigs that did the same thing I did (missed the left turn going up), and drove up the hill for 10 minutes & then hit the block. Rather than turning around & finding the new section of trail, they went over the work that was done that very same day.
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Old 11-17-2011, 08:09 AM   #89 (permalink)
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The most recent blocking work done on the top end of the trail in October by FOF/FourDice 4x4 club. It was a great block/very obvious.

Unfortunately, there wasn't a block at the bottom of the old section of trail.

The only signage is a pic of a jeep w/an arrow pointing left 20' on a tree where your supposed to turn left.

I was going up it at dusk, and was tired & actually missed the left turn at first. I realized it after about 20 feet. This is because the left turn goes up a steep rock slab.

The "un-done" occurred that same evening by a group of rigs that did the same thing I did (missed the left turn going up), and drove up the hill for 10 minutes & then hit the block. Rather than turning around & finding the new section of trail, they went over the work that was done that very same day.
I agree that the turn, on the lower side, can be hard to see for those not used to the trail. This is the reason we are putting up signs in the spring. I hope you threw a log across the old route after you realized you went the wrong way!?
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Old 11-17-2011, 08:23 AM   #90 (permalink)
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In hind sight I should have.

I was solo (w/my brother & my 8 yr old son) & we were 2 hours late getting back to camp due to a broken valve stem. Not to mention it we it was late dusk.
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Old 11-18-2011, 09:52 AM   #91 (permalink)
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It might be a lot of work - but it looks human built. Which makes it more obvious.

A pile of debris looks like a pile of debris. People won't respect it as much. (obviously they don't in this case).

You can construct something similar to the range fencing we put up at the bottom of the Bowl on the Rubicon and remove it when the trail looks a little more wild.

Or like the pic might put up, which we did to prevent folks from entering a meadow on Slickrock Trail. You can do two levels instead of just one.

Maybe there is just a group of folks out there who are defiantly keeping the old trail open because they don't like the new one?

If you are one of those people, why not get in touch with Tinman and communicate your concerns so FOF can solve the issue? Why continue to put the entire use of the trail at risk because you are dissatisfied?

Come on - it's not hard.
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:52 AM   #92 (permalink)
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I will agree with Bebe that the range style huge blockades used on the slab as you entered the trail from Loon was one of the single most noticable block offs on the trail. Has there been any issues with use of the lower trail around the slabs since then ??? I dunno but it sure was an effective visible barrier. Is it still there or has it been turned into firewood ??
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Old 11-18-2011, 03:33 PM   #93 (permalink)
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I will agree with Bebe that the range style huge blockades used on the slab as you entered the trail from Loon was one of the single most noticable block offs on the trail.
Agreed. The fences are still there on both sides, and there's been minimal drive-around. It weathered and blends well into the surroundings unless you are right on top of it, in which case it remains an effective visible barrier.

The CCCs did a similar fence on the Tahoe side to keep people out of the obvious meadow and on the equally obvious trail. I hope it will be similarly effective, otherwise we are at risk to lose winter access to the Tahoe side of the trail.

I agree with Jacquelyne -- compliance and cooperation shouldn't be hard.

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Old 11-18-2011, 05:09 PM   #94 (permalink)
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The range fence as the first line of defense would be very doable. The linear footage would not be that much. Guessing around 20-30 feet on the lower side and 15-20 feet on the upper. This and the 200 yards of “fawk that” trees criss-crossing the trail. Although with proper signage and a barrier at the “Y’s” it would seem that the people who genuinely want to stay on the trail would get it.
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Old 11-19-2011, 07:57 AM   #95 (permalink)
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maybe a lame question but why is there a a problem having 2 lines? winch hill 1 qnd 3 have options as well as driveline.
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Old 11-19-2011, 10:08 AM   #96 (permalink)
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maybe a lame question but why is there a a problem having 2 lines? winch hill 1 qnd 3 have options as well as driveline.
Because PG&E decided that the amount of erosion on the old route was not sustainable. It was basically a move it or lose it proposition. Leaving the old route open is/was not an option.
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Old 11-19-2011, 10:34 AM   #97 (permalink)
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Didn't know pge owned that side of the property or for that matter wasn't aware pge had the interest of environmental impact for the state.
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Old 11-19-2011, 12:18 PM   #98 (permalink)
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there ya go

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Everyone please understand that this re-route was not done in any effort to make the trail different, harder, or easier. It was done at the request and agreement with PG&E whom owns the land, and the USFS. I understand that for someone not familiar with the trail that the change is hard to understand. Problem is that even those whom know the trail are treating this change like it was an done simply to change the trail, not that it was done in an effort to preserve our access and use of this road. Because the original trail that is being bypassed is mostly dirt and under the trees, therefore almost always wet, it is eroding to the point that is was becoming a real concern. And re-routing to a hard base was the only solution.
We will continue our efforts to block the old route, as we have done multiple times before. Our last attempt was partially foiled by an early snow that severely hampered our success.
read
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Old 11-20-2011, 01:23 AM   #99 (permalink)
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Didn't know pge owned that side of the property or for that matter wasn't aware pge had the interest of environmental impact for the state.
PGE keeps it open as a courtesy. ultimately their bottom line interest is in staying out of the regional water quality contol board's crosshairs. if our trail infringes on thier permit or profitability you can bet the ole 1/2 way cut out will become a memory like bassi falls even if it is an established ROW
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:29 AM   #100 (permalink)
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im real new to 4 wheel drive stuff and wasnt aware they were the land owner.
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