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Old 11-11-2011, 08:47 AM   #101 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lookin4fun_inca View Post
Well kinda... Technically they are Inner Fender Liners. And the rules have been overly posted that...

Rear inner and outer fenders must be complete and unmodified, with the following limitations and exceptions: outer fenders (wheelwell openings) may be trimmed for the single and exclusive purpose of allowing for tire clearance. Modifications to the outer fenders must preserve the look of the stock wheelwells, as originally manufactured, and must not be trimmed excessively (no more than a 2" gap between any part of the outer fender and the tire at full compression).

SO I would have to say that they are needed to be there and unmodified?

Otherwise, I think I have a few great ideas for my build, that do away with some inner fender items.


Ps.. They also call the front inner fenders, technically "inner fender liner". SO does that mean TTJ/LJ etc, dont need to run front inner fenders?
These are inner fender items right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jeep-Wrangle...ts_Accessories
I would argue that the distinction is readily apparent and both examples are on the TJ itself. The inner fender on the front of a TJ is stamped sheet metal and is held on with weld versus a plastic dust shield in the rear held on with christmas tree clips.

If they fail anyone at tech for missing the mud shields on the front fenders which serve the same function as the rear liners, I'm going to gather up the stack of them I've removed over the years and go stand next to tech with some clips and make me some easy cash.
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:12 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Every discussion I've been a part of, including the original meeting about this class always centered on the sheet metal inner fenders. I've never once heard mention of the plastic liner. In fact on most vehicles that plastic liner attaches to the fender lip, which the rules specifically say we can trim for tire clearance. That leaves a plastic mud flap floating in space. I know for a fact that the intent of the rule was to keep people from chopping big giant nasty holes all through the car and killing the appearance of being stock. It was also to limit the class and present a challenge that would ultimately keep the speeds down due to lack of suspension travel.

To answer your question, though this jeep didn't even have those fender liners when I got it, since they are quite flexible I'm pretty sure I could get them back in there over top of the shocks.
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:17 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelitojeep View Post
I find this to be a bit on the nit-picking side...

These plastic liners are not going to make or break a cars performance.
Sure it does. Majorly. Allows a much nicer shock angle with that long on a shock. Major advantage.

They wouldn't even allow us to remove the stock spring bucket and add in a reinforced one that is part of the inner fender.

Inner fender should be inner fender no matter what its made of or why its there?
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:22 AM   #104 (permalink)
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You, unfortunately, are running a unibody car where the spring bucket IS part of the inner sheetmetal fender. That's one of the drawbacks of your choice of vehicle. IIRC you also chopped holes in your spring buckets and shoved your bumpstops through them, which is a pretty obvious rule break, sooooooo.






just sayin
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:31 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinkBug View Post
You, unfortunately, are running a unibody car where the spring bucket IS part of the inner sheetmetal fender. That's one of the drawbacks of your choice of vehicle. IIRC you also chopped holes in your spring buckets and shoved your bumpstops through them, which is a pretty obvious rule break, sooooooo.






just sayin
Yes drawback.

And we did not penetrate the inner fender. We plated inside and outside and welded those plates to the stock inner fender. Then did a bumpstop tube on the bottom and a engine cage tie in on top. Both welded to those plates. That is not a single tube in and out.

Cause I guess u can't modify the susp how ever u want. Inner fenders trump longevity of the vehicle, safety, and all other allowed mods. Or so I was told by chris.

But he makes the call. I know were legal now. Just thought since the owner of this rig is a friend I would point out a poss miss since it likely was missing those when u got it, and maybe saving some headache in the long run.
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:35 AM   #106 (permalink)
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I would think it is fine? The rules do specify 'sheetmetal'.


I havent seen the plastic fender liner for our Cherokee in years.. I'd be hard pressed to find it on 3 out of 5 stock jeeps in the junkyard, I think.
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:38 AM   #107 (permalink)
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I appreciate the heads up, and will be discussing the specifics with Chris to make sure, but in the mean time I went back to the rule book to take a look for myself. The rule you posted is 6.3.2.4, just above it is this rule which defines what the stock body is.

Quote:
6.3.2.2 Stock body (body is considered to be the full cab,
including all interior and exterior sheetmetal, bed,
doors, hood, fenders, grill, etc.) required. Must be
complete and unmodified, with the following
limitations and exceptions: Holes may be cut in
any part of the body for the single and exclusive
purpose of allowing rollcage tubes and
transmission/transfer case linkage to pass-through
the body.......
I highlighted the key word. Anyways, like I said I'll double check with Chris and if it's a no-go I'll make sure the dust guards will fit. We could argue rule wording and translations til we're both old and feeble, and in the end both be wrong since we aren't the ones teching the vehicles.

/hijack
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:45 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Link to the rulebooks for this? I would like to read just to see what the deal is.
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:59 AM   #109 (permalink)
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http://ultra4racing.com/racers/rulebook/
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Old 11-11-2011, 10:54 AM   #110 (permalink)
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I think having to keep the stock plastic liners would be stoooopppiid but...


6.3.2.6 Rear inner and outer fenders must be complete
and unmodified, with the following limitations and
exceptions: outer fenders (wheelwell openings)
may be trimmed for the single and exclusive
purpose of allowing for tire clearance.
Modifications to the outer fenders must preserve
the look of the stock wheelwells, as originally
manufactured, and must not be trimmed
excessively (no more than a 2" gap between any
part of the outer fender and the tire at full
compression).

It doesn't specify 'sheetmetal' in this section and I would see if they would clarify.
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:22 AM   #111 (permalink)
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Sheetmetal is the term used to define what a stock body is in the rule that precedes the one you quoted.

We're starting to beat a dead horse here though, until I hear from Chris we're going in circles.
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Old 11-11-2011, 03:18 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mieser View Post
I think having to keep the stock plastic liners would be stoooopppiid but...


6.3.2.6 Rear inner and outer fenders must be complete
and unmodified, with the following limitations and
exceptions: outer fenders (wheelwell openings)
may be trimmed for the single and exclusive
purpose of allowing for tire clearance.
Modifications to the outer fenders must preserve
the look of the stock wheelwells, as originally
manufactured, and must not be trimmed
excessively (no more than a 2" gap between any
part of the outer fender and the tire at full
compression).

It doesn't specify 'sheetmetal' in this section and I would see if they would clarify.
My question is how many inner fenders does one vehicle need? That big ass hump that goes over the rear tire that's made out of stamped sheetmetal is what, a picnic table? No, it's the inner fender.

The plastic piece is a dust shield and like I said, if they make folks run them, I've got a stack of them for sale.
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Old 11-11-2011, 03:37 PM   #113 (permalink)
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I'll let Chris post up, but I was told today we would not need them.
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Old 11-11-2011, 04:21 PM   #114 (permalink)
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i find it amusing how people run to the rules anything anyone does anything outside the box. there are a lot of grey areas in the rules, which makes this class appealing.

if you can defend it, run it.
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:14 PM   #115 (permalink)
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I find limited classes to be pretty interesting to build for, simply because of the grey areas. It forces you to think harder. Those who have experience with racing and rulebooks know how to read between the lines and see what is actually legal, but not specifically mentioned. Most who haven't raced much see things much more black and white. There is a difference between cheating and reading what isn't written. It just usually takes a bit of experience to recognize where the lines are.
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:26 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Most who haven't raced much see things much more black and white.
Luckily for this team, Dallas and the rest of his crew draw with:

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Old 11-11-2011, 08:10 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Dustin,

Thanks for hooking us up with Mastercraft! Now can you go over there and pickup our seats!

Thanks,

Gerald


Quote:
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Luckily for this team, Dallas and the rest of his crew draw with:

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Old 11-11-2011, 10:47 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Dustin,

Thanks for hooking us up with Mastercraft! Now can you go over there and pickup our seats!

Thanks,

Gerald
Will get them and take em up so I can see the progress!
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:12 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Did someone say progress?
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Old 11-12-2011, 09:10 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Well crap, you officially passed me in build progress. I better get on the ball!
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:23 AM   #121 (permalink)
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More from yesterday. Decided it needed a few triangles. So far the cage attaches to the frame in 14 places. I hope we dont need to test them.
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:42 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StinkBug View Post
I'll let Chris post up, but I was told today we would not need them.
As Dallas has said, the plastic pieces wont be considered the inner fender. if anyone would like more clarity please feel free to email me.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:56 AM   #123 (permalink)
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I hate mounting seats. That is all.
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:02 AM   #124 (permalink)
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I hate mounting seats. That is all.
x2
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:05 AM   #125 (permalink)
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I hate mounting seats. That is all.
I think I spent more time on the seat mounts than I did on the rest of the cage.

Looking fast.
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