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Super Joints and copy cats

40K views 161 replies 109 participants last post by  The Mac 
#1 ·
Super Joints and copy cats.

Well its been nearly 11 years since I filed for the Patent on the Super Joint. (sold as the Yukon Super Joint) In that Time I've seen a few competitors come & go. (OX) I've seen some copy cats, and some very similar designs and some completely different. I've had competitors (CTM) send me letters to cease and desist manufacturing the Super Joint, saying theirs was patented, and mine was infringing on their patent. So I sent proof showing them that my joint was patented before their joint and they backed off.
Now yet another u-joint is in/after the market, the Nitro Excalibur 300M. So it claims to have some similar features to my Super Joint thus I had to get my hands on some and get them tested to see if they infringe on my patent.

Their website* makes the following claims:
Made from 300M,
Strongest Joint available, &
Surface hardened trunnion.

http://www.nitro-gear.com/news/2009/...-u-joints.html
http://www.justdifferentials.com/ind...oducts_id=2134
Note: these links work in post 14, sorry I cant seem to edit them here.

I will address these issues in reverse order.
Surface hardened trunnion. My Patent covers any u-joint using Ionic coatings for surface hardening. Examples are Nitriding, Titanium Aluminum oxide, & chromium nitride to name just a few. This is what gives my trunnion its hardness such that it does not need a bushing. It turns out that their coating is just a standard black oxide coating to prevent surface rust in storage.
Strongest Joint on the Market. I saw no actual comparative data on this.
Made from 300M
Test results show this to be made from 4340, same as mine. Here is where I go livid............It is completely misleading and unethical for Nitro to advertise their product as 300M material, when it is not!!
I don't mind competition in the market place, that's what small business in America is all about, but making false claims to sell your product is not allowed. After selling over 10,000 units and to my knowledge I have never seen one that broke, it drives me nuts when every body else in marketing a bling bling 300m product that is not necessary. I ask you to take a look at the following independent test results, comment and if you have any complaints about the Super Joint please let me know so that I can take steps to improve it. I know there were some quality issues when they were first manufactured but now they are being built entirely in the good old USA!
 
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#2 ·
NW labs sumarized Report.

There are a lot of similarities between 4340 & 300m, Using most of the same alloys, but what makes the difference between 4340 & 300m is the purity of the metal & the amounts of each alloy. Note that 300M contains Titainium & 4340 does not, and none was found in the Nitro joints.
 

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#3 ·
NW labs Complete Report pgs 1-5

NW labs complete report pgs 1-5 of 17
 

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#4 ·
NW labs report cont pgs 6-10 of 17

pg 6-10
 

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#5 ·
nw labs cont pgs 11-15

pgs 11-15
 

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#6 ·
nw labs pgs 16-17

nw labs pgs 16-17 of 17.
 

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#8 · (Edited)
Verrry interesting.

So, not only is Nitro infringing on your patent, but they are selling an inferior product to do so (black oxide vs. something to improve hardness, and misrepresenting the "300m" cross).

Good to know, I will need joints sometime in early spring and it's good to support the innovators as far as I am concerned.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Thomas has had the same SUPER JOINTS and axles ,also YUKON, in a 4600# Ultra 4 car for well over 800 miles of racing & testing with no issues at all. We check them after every race and have had no problems!
 
#13 · (Edited)
Intersting data.
Are not the nitro joints the old style Longs? look very similar.
It could be possible that 4340 could have been picked instead of 300M, not many places stock it. Need a mat cert.
 
#14 · (Edited)
#21 ·
Thanks, yes I forgot to check if they were working after several edits. For some reason I cant edit a live link back into my 1st post, thanks for getting them here.
 
#15 ·
I am a user of Yukon Super Joints, never Have I ever had a problem.

-Lucas
 
#20 ·
WOW. Ill be contacting Nitro about this :( As far as I understand RCV makes these joints...???

I have full line of Yukon Products in our Buggys including the joints. Been happy with them for years. I originally bought mine from Jantz. I thought he was the designer.

Great research
 
#23 ·
Man . . . . now I remember how much I hated doing vickers hardness testing . . . . . talk about a snooze fest lol.

Great research, nice to see some claims backed up with indepentant 3rd party research that could be duplicated if need be.

That said, someone should make a jig up so some of these products could be placed in a tensile testing machine so we could get some actual numbers.
 
#90 ·
Ask and ye shall recieve



Here is what the lab found on a set of Longs joints purchased a couple of weeks ago, looks like they are not as advertised either.
 

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#26 ·
If I am understanding this correctly, you hold the patent for the coating process on the super joint and Yukon builds and sells them under a license agreement with you the patent holder ?


How does the CTM patent differ from yours ?
 
#27 ·
Also if the nitro joint is indeed not coated with a Hardening material is it actually infringing on your patent ? claims of base material not withstanding of course as that is a separate issue ( false advertising ? )
 
#38 · (Edited)
If you're seriously worried about it, get a good patent lawyer and see if you have a case. You may, or course, spend more on lawyers than it's worth, but it would be good to know if they're stealing your money/customers. It may also threaten them enough to change their advertising/lying.
I don't think he's worried about patent infringement anymore with this "competitor", as his independent tests proved they were only advertising they had a similar product when in fact they don't. They are instead just saying one and doing the other. See below.



Looks like it sounded similar enough that he tested 'em to see. I agree that it appears to not be infringing, but if they lived up to their advertising it may actually infringe.
 
#29 ·
Now yet another u-joint is in/after the market, the Nitro Excalibur 300M. So it claims to have some similar features to my Super Joint thus I had to get my hands on some and get them tested to see if they infringe on my patent.
Looks like it sounded similar enough that he tested 'em to see. I agree that it appears to not be infringing, but if they lived up to their advertising it may actually infringe.
 
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