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Old 08-03-2003, 09:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Wiring Warn winch to run on a 24v system?

This is not for me....Mom's bf asked me to see what I could find out some info for him. Like the title says....Is it possible to wire a Warn winch to run on 24 volts? My first thought is that it would kill the winch motor. So is he smokin pole or what?
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Old 08-03-2003, 09:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
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From what I understand the winch must be a 24V unit. They are built differently.
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Old 08-03-2003, 09:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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How are they built differently? What compnent is different from 12 to 24v?

As far as I'm concerned, this is a waste of time to even ask about. Can't understand why you would want to alter a 12v winch to run on 24v when 12v works just fine. Oh well. Not my winch.
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Old 08-03-2003, 09:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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For the M15000 Warn winch the 12V has a finned heat sink on the motor, while the 24V doesn't. The 24V doesn't need it due to its increased efficieny. Other than that I'm not sure, I got that info. form 4 wheel & off-road. The 24V looks trick, but its a lot of work to get it going.
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Old 08-04-2003, 12:17 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by KidJethro
How are they built differently? What compnent is different from 12 to 24v?

As far as I'm concerned, this is a waste of time to even ask about. Can't understand why you would want to alter a 12v winch to run on 24v when 12v works just fine. Oh well. Not my winch.
Maybe he has a 24V-everything rig like I do... That would be an excellent reason IMO

The motor is different, but a good auto electrician should be able to rewind it as a 24V I was told... Now I'm not sure about the solenoids...
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Old 08-04-2003, 05:44 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Like woola said, check out this month's issue of 4 wheel & off-road. It had a couple page article about how to set up a 24V winch.
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Old 08-04-2003, 06:52 AM   #7 (permalink)
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24V would give the motor more voltage and amperage to run off of. It would really improve how long you could winch with out burning up the motor. Its sorta like going from a 4banger to a V8. You get twice of everything. I am currently setting up a 24V system to run my on-board air. It is similar to the high dollar unit Trailhead is putting out, execpt that it is only going to cost me around $100.00. It will last longer at a higher load due to more amperage and higher voltage. There is alot of good things about 24V systems.
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Old 08-04-2003, 07:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Which is why the auto manufacturers are now playing with 40 volt systems for new cars... reduced weight because thinner wiring can be used...
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Old 08-04-2003, 07:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Here's a question, how is his vehicle acheiving 24 volts? If it is with 2 12-volt batteries, all you really need to do is connect the pos and neg cables to the posts on one battery instead of both. It was my understanding that 24-volt systems are made by running two 12-volt batteries in parallel (series?).

I may be mistaken, and I'm sure somebody will correct me if I am, but that should give you 12-volts.
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Old 08-04-2003, 08:01 AM   #10 (permalink)
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2 parallel=12 volts, more amp
2 series=24 volts
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Old 08-04-2003, 08:05 AM   #11 (permalink)
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A 24 Volt system uses less current then a 12-volt system for the same amount of work. I think you would need to change the motor, Solenoids, and whatever controls the brake if it is not mechanical. 2 12-volt batteries in series will give you 24 volts. If you connect 1 12-volt battery the winch would work. Just make sure it is the first battery in the series combination.
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Old 08-04-2003, 09:13 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks for clarifying that Star. I was pretty sure I'd get it flip-flopped!
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Old 08-04-2003, 09:27 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I know if you talk to Warn you can get I believe all of there winches with the 24v motors. Like it's allready been said it will run cooler and give you faster lines speeds also. To answer the question yes you can run winches on 24v's. You just have to have the 24v motor.
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Old 08-04-2003, 10:14 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Running 12V stuff out of one battery in a 24V system is not a good thing for the batteries, be it a winch or a radio. It will kill (I mean really kill) one battery pretty quick. When you draw some current out of one battery only, it will obviously discharge, and the alt. will try to charge both batteries with the same amount of current, overcharging one, and underchargin the other.
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Old 08-04-2003, 12:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
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On our comp CJ we are running 24V winches front and rear. We are also running a 24V alternator strictly for the winches with 2 odessey (sp) batteries along with a 12V alternator and another odessey battery for the ignition system.

The motors we are using are bowmotors. More info here.

The bow1, is 4.6 and is strong enough that you need to add bolts to hold the motor to the 8274 and have over 6 mil mounting plate. The bow2, rated at 6.5, will snap the gears on the 8274 so you would need to have new ones made that are harder and more precise than standard Warn.

The extra power and speed is pretty awesome
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Old 08-04-2003, 01:30 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stupid frnch jackasS
Running 12V stuff out of one battery in a 24V system is not a good thing for the batteries, be it a winch or a radio. It will kill (I mean really kill) one battery pretty quick. When you draw some current out of one battery only, it will obviously discharge, and the alt. will try to charge both batteries with the same amount of current, overcharging one, and underchargin the other.
Bingo! Excellent answer! You'll be replacing BOTH BATTERIES pretty quickly.

Solenoids are usually rated 12V. If you power up the solenoids with 24V, they will overheat and fail. So they really need to be matched to the system voltage.

Motor -- any alternator/starter rebuild shop should be able to rewind it for 24V.

Eskimo -- partially correct. The electrical system loading in newer vehicles is insane. One reason for the 42V system is to allow for an electric heater in the catalyzer for cold start emissions (majority of emission is cold start on modern vehicles). The '03 Corvette has a water cooled alternator. Yep, 2K Watt Loading (almost a 200 Amp alternator), so water is used for cooling the housing. OUCH! While the higher voltage allows for smaller wiring (less current) the big push for 42V systems is the amount of loading (ie. active suspension, electronically controlled valves, emission). Power disappation is I^2*R, so if you drop the current to 1/3 previous, power disappation is almost 1/10th of the previous value.

I take it Mom's bf has a Diesel? Hence 24V (two batteries). Only other thought is to add a 24V/12V invertor and a third battery for the 12V only system, but you're still better off with the 24V winch.

For SHORT TIME USE ONLY you can run a 12V motor off 24V. We've done that for starting the rally car... two small 12V batteries to get that starter to spin up fast. It was a low compression rotary engine, absolute pita to get started. Once running, the solenoids would change the battery from series (24V) to parallel (12V). If a solenoid stuck closed... things melted and caught fire quickly! Not recommended.

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Old 08-05-2003, 01:38 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
I take it Mom's bf has a Diesel? Hence 24V (two batteries). Only other thought is to add a 24V/12V invertor and a third battery for the 12V only system, but you're still better off with the 24V winch.
No diesel. He's got a mid 60's M38A1 body on a later CJ5 frame. 225 odd fire. Dual yellow top optimas. Warn HS9000 winch. I'm not sure why he wants to do this... I'm just going along.
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Old 08-05-2003, 07:21 AM   #18 (permalink)
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This month's issue of Peterson has the subject covered.
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Old 08-05-2003, 07:56 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by KidJethro


No diesel. He's got a mid 60's M38A1 body on a later CJ5 frame. 225 odd fire. Dual yellow top optimas. Warn HS9000 winch. I'm not sure why he wants to do this... I'm just going along.
Ya... would need more details on what he is up to, or thinking about. A Yellow top optima is fine for both running the vehicle and winching. Duals add a good "bling bling" factor, but I would still keep to a 12V vehicle system, and a 12V winch battery... battery isolators can be found at any RV Shop for keeping both charged.

Personally for trail rigs I love the "KISS" (Keep is simple, stupid) method.

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Old 08-05-2003, 09:14 AM   #20 (permalink)
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With a 24v system you would use half the current for the same raw power available.
The winch motor would run twice as fast.

If it is a solenoid operated winch, just use 12v to operate the solenoids, since they will be passing less current they will have no problems.

The winch motor itself can run over a range of voltage. The key thing is motor heating. As long as you don't overheat the motor is will work fine, maybe a slight bit more brush wear.

The big benefit in a 24 v system would be the ability to use lower current rated components, wire, connectors, solenoids, smaller motor. But since the winch is designed around 12 v to begin with, I don't see a benefit.

Would anyone out there be interested in solid state mosfet control upgrades to say the Warn 8274?
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Old 08-05-2003, 10:01 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Would anyone out there be interested in solid state mosfet control upgrades to say the Warn 8274?
Uh... Why?

I can use the old Ford Solenoid for $5 each. Good for 10+ years of use. With a MOSFET switching, I'm going to be way more than $20 for four solenoids.

Key is to keep the motor cool. Hitting a starter with 24V isn't too bad, as I only ran the stater for less then 5 seconds (it would spin the motor up quick!). Same trick on a winch that is pulling for two minutes will cause it to overheat.

On my old fork lift motors... rated 36V for 5 minute continous operation, 50% duty cycle. (one for 5, off for 5). I would run them at 72V, but with LOTS of extra cooling to the motor.

Side note on the Peterson's article. For the 24V WINCH they show four batteries in series/parallel operation. 12V off the lower two batteries, 24V with the upper string across the lower two. Electronic gizmo does the "ballance charging". Uh, tried something like that in the electric vehicles... finally went to a DC/DC convertor and a seperate battery for the 12V system... (Glanced at the magazine at lunch, left it in the truck).

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Old 08-05-2003, 06:13 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by scrout
Would anyone out there be interested in solid state mosfet control upgrades to say the Warn 8274?
You mean like the one Warn already sells?
http://products.warn.com/warn.nsf/wa...cial.Main.html
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Old 10-20-2003, 06:14 PM   #23 (permalink)
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the only thread I found that talks about it

The mosfet system is a solid state solinoid-less controller, correct? This is on the 9500si. What does the 9500ti use for controller? Is it the same as the HS9500i with just a temperature led added?
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Old 10-20-2003, 07:43 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eskimo
Which is why the auto manufacturers are now playing with 40 volt systems for new cars... reduced weight because thinner wiring can be used...
No, it is because they are switching to electrical powered a/c compressors, alternators, water pumps, etc.

Getting rid of belt driven accesories.
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