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Old 01-31-2004, 04:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Cam problem BBC Help

Ok so Im in the garage looking over the buggy. I hear a rocker noise. I adjusted the rockers before we went to Hot Springs. I pulled the valve cover off and watch the lift and can tell its dead.

Ok this is the same cam I had in the motor for about two or three years prior to this build. When the motor was disassembled I bagged each lifter/rocker/ball/pushrod and taged them. They looked great and with all the new changes I didnt want to play the cam game, for the moment I was happy with the performance (gobs of torque) of this one. Reassembled the motor ran fine adjusted the lifters then beat on it.

This happened three years ago when I first built the motor and found out the springs were set up incorrectly. Fired that machine shop then had them corrected went back in with a new cam and no problems till now. Yes I had the heads reworked and he did use new springs but, this is my new guy and he was aware of the spring hight.

Ok, FAWK flat tappet cams I want to go roller. I plan to research the shit out of this tonight and see if I can get this thing together by Wendsday for the ride at Grayrock.

The thinks I have going for me (I think)

I have a few days to do this
Comp Cams is here in Memphis

The thing that sucks

I have to find a roller cam close to my pathetic profile for the fuel injection to work. (anytime I spend money I want upgrades, as in bigger cam)

I need ANY advice from you guys the have retrofitted a roller cam into a mark IV block.

What do I need to buy?
What do I need to modify?

Is there any machine work required? heads, block ???

Now Im off to comps website

Thanks, Dan
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Old 01-31-2004, 04:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 01-31-2004, 05:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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flat tappets sawk arse.....the are too tempramental....sp?

you can get the lifters in the right spot and they might fawk up...you can get them in the wrong spot and they might fawk up...you can put them anywhere and they might work....ive had that happen once????

anyways i havnt looked but if you have a hard time finding a grind you like there are grinders out there that can custom grind you a shaft....doug herbert sp? is one...it was going to be cheaper for me to get a custom grind than off the shelf
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Old 01-31-2004, 06:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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it happens but i run a flat tappet cam in my 350 up to 6500 rpms.

that is a very mild cam by the specs on the card.

what kind of fuel injection is this? canit not be programmed?

the markIV isthe old style blockcorrect? it is a possibility that you will have to have the lifter bosses milled which will involve total motor dissasembly....roller lifters are expensive and you will most likely want solid rollers so they will have to be adjusted periodically. even if you get hyd roller lifters they still arent maintenance free, the rollers have to be rebuilt every now and then. not as oftenas in a drag car where alot of guys rebuild their lifters every two yearsor so.

are you sure each lifter got put back with the rightlobe? and why are you running stamped rockers? with a tight valve spring the additional frictional loss by roller rockers will be a bit easier on teh cam.

looking at comps website, i'm liking these two cams for your application

SK11-407-8 CB XR252HR-10 CAM & KIT $895.32
SK11-408-8 CB XR258HR-10 CAM & KIT $895.32

these include the cam, lifters(hyd) and timing kit.

specs

AI AO 5I 5O LI LO LSA
11-407-8 252 258 200 206 .510 .510 110*
11-408-8 258 264 206 212 .510 .510 110*

AI - advertsed duration intake side (.006)
AO - advertised duration exhaust side (.006)
5I - duration @.050 Intake side
5O - duration @.050 Exhaust side
LI - Intake valve lift (w/stock ratio rockers)
LO - Exhaust valve lift(w/stock ratio rockers)
LSA - Lobe separation angle

maybe also look into teh marine cams with the 112*LSA
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Old 01-31-2004, 07:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Holyshit! thats a small cam!!

go much much bigger


Hope that helps.
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Old 01-31-2004, 07:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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yea real good tech.... that is a small cam but it has to work with his EFI...that can will give him great torque... he aint spinnin this thing to 6k rpms, well not too often, only when he really need to get it AWN
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Old 01-31-2004, 07:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Cool, I ran this engine like this for almost three years with no problems. The truck I had it in was 7000lbs I needed torque. Also I have to be carefull with cam selection because of the super tight torque converter. (tire control)

Injection is by Howell. Yes they can burn a new chip. but I have to get this together by Wendsday.

YES I would like to go bigger but at this time Its going to have to wait.

Thanks, Dan
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Old 01-31-2004, 08:00 PM   #8 (permalink)
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If you need it back together by wednesday, I think your best option is to throw it back together with a new set of lifters, and next time one craps out, you will be ready for it with whatever you come up with to replace them.
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Old 01-31-2004, 08:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
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BTT for Dan.

That *IS* a mild cam. Have you been to www.cams-for-little-girls.com? Or considered using a solid cylinder of steel? The microscopic variations in the surface texture might produce more lift than that came does.

Please don't try and mock my 4banger in some petty form of revenge. Not because you shouldn't but because I can't possibly defend 141 C.I. against 468.

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Old 01-31-2004, 08:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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forgot to ask, did it wipe out the camlobe? i'm sure it did....

if by a miracle it didnt, then yea just throw a set of lifters in it.

honestly with a tight converter i would keepthe cam mild, this isnt a dragster. a crawling motor should be a bit similar to a marine engine, plenty of low end torque and a flat power band.

thos cams i suggested will work great but IF you want bigger dont go much bigger, it'll affect the idle quality some (not as bad as if you had a carb due to lackof vacumm signal to the idle circuit.) aslo you dont want your torque to be dead byt he time the converter comes in.

EDIT: if you want a bump in low end tq then perhaps try some 1.8:1 full roller rockers..... very pricey but you will gain a good bit of torque without affecting your powerband.

270-13755-16 1.8 Ratio; 7/16'' Stud, Set $424.99




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Last edited by gumbojeepyj; 01-31-2004 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 01-31-2004, 10:00 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Im with 64rovr, stick another cam and lifter set in for now........For a full roller set up you need to have done by a Professional..........sounds like your heads still aren't dialed in as far as spring pressures go...............When ya do get roller rockers, spend the mona and get the Crower Enduro's, they last forever.......and i'm sure your builder will stagger them 1.7 & 1.8........buzz
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Old 01-31-2004, 10:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Ok the cam is out. Only the one lobe is dead. I had a bit of good luck, the cam came out with out removing the winch I have been on the phone all night and for now It looks like I will be heading down to comp first thing Monday morning to discuss my options. Thanks all for the sugestions. Heres a few pics

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Old 01-31-2004, 11:04 PM   #13 (permalink)
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thats nothing,.........throw some weld on it to build it up....then grind it to your spec

pretty slick with the winch tho
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Old 01-31-2004, 11:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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looking at your lifter bosses... those are ready for roller lifters no machining neede.... i remember now it's the newer small blocks that have to be machined. i dont know what Buzz means by "professional" or "builder" but i think any guy that can build a buggy like that can handle a cam swap and setup. the lash on the hydro roller lifters is the same ass flat tappet.... ICEO. you may need special length pushrods which canbe determined by a checking rod. most likely your springs arent up for roller duty as most roller valve springs are very high in seat and full lift pressures. i wouldnt stagger the rockers because like i said... this is a crawler not a dragster. staggered rockers helps with scavenging and intake air charge velocities. all high RPM stuff... the 1.8:1 rockers on I&E will be fine. if you really have some blingto spendthen go with jesel but those are very high dollar. crane,crower, and comp all make good rockers. mine of choice is the crane golds. lemme know if ya need anything else.

EDIT: oh and that lobe doesnt look too bad... ive seen them practically gone!
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Old 02-01-2004, 06:53 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Hey gumbojeep, I never said he was stupid Geometry of the vavletrain is VERY critical to setting up any motor, at least if ya want it to last.....hence the issues at hand !! Just trying to sve the guy some grief AND money.........Been there done that as far as his motor goes..........Every engine builder talks the talk, but finding a "Professional" is a bout as hard as finding a life long soulmate...........

Chevys are known for wipeing out cam lobes (Happened to me on 2 diffrent big blocks)

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Old 02-01-2004, 07:17 AM   #16 (permalink)
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What Oil weight are you running? As far as I know the cam only gets oiled from the oil the slings off the crank and what ever little oil drips down on it in the valley. The thicker the oil the longer it takes before everything gets lubed on start up.

Did you break the cam in properly when you installed it?
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Old 02-01-2004, 08:29 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc Johnson
What Oil weight are you running? As far as I know the cam only gets oiled from the oil the slings off the crank and what ever little oil drips down on it in the valley. The thicker the oil the longer it takes before everything gets lubed on start up.

Did you break the cam in properly when you installed it?
10w30. The cam has been in the motor for almost three years prior to this rebuild. It looked great when it went back in. Yes every lifter/pushrod/rocker/ball/nut was numbered and baged and went back in the original location.

Dan
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Old 02-01-2004, 09:05 AM   #18 (permalink)
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10w30. The cam has been in the motor for almost three years prior to this rebuild. It looked great when it went back in. Yes every lifter/pushrod/rocker/ball/nut was numbered and baged and went back in the original location.

Dan
It sounds like a typical problem to me. I would imagine the cam has seen alot of hours of use on it too. When I rebuilt my small block that had roughly 10,000 miles on it, I noticed the cam was starting to pit so I replaced it. ( It was not broke in right either) Once the hard facing wears the cam is done in no time.

Going to a roller cam will cost big bucks!! But the performance gains are worth it. And I would not think you would ever have a problem with it. I have never heard of needing to constantly rebuild lifters on a roller cam either as someone else mentioned. (keep in mind this is a street cam, nothing aggresive)
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Old 02-01-2004, 09:20 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Holyshit! thats a small cam!!
That's the perfect cam for what he's doing. I put that same cam in my 454 Nova. Great low end torque, not alot of lift but a tighter lobe seperation to make it 'rump'.

I'd go with the same cam again.
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Old 02-01-2004, 09:51 AM   #20 (permalink)
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You need full pressure lube to the cam, and not just the bearings. I recall seeing a kit to drill and tap an oil passage and run a drip system above the cam to lube the lobes .....the specs you list are real close to the wolverine cam I have in my 85 dually camper special ...... pullls like a freight train but runs out of breathe real quick. Run a qt of Lucas stabilizer, and 10w30 will turn into 20w50, provide awesome "scrub" protection, be tacky, and be resistant to race fuel degredation!
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Old 02-01-2004, 10:06 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Did some more research and here is what I found, Edelbrock has a valley pan that channels oil to critical parts on the cam p/n 8098, and BC engineering has a pressure lube system that taps in to the last oil journal and provides constant oil under pressure to the cam lobes, you can see it a offroad.com in the potent rodent build up..........prost
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Old 02-01-2004, 06:10 PM   #22 (permalink)
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any updates Dan?

and Buzz....STFU...anret you theone whosaid you "beat teh shit" out of your D60....but in reality you are jsut spinning out in teh mud? oh yea that's you. sorry but you have been filed in the dipshit catergory in my book. dipshit
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Old 02-01-2004, 06:45 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I worked on the motorhome all day today. The engine is cleaned up and awaiting a decision. Im going to Comp first thing in the morning.

I have researched the oiling thing but blew it off because the last cam I used lasted so long . Now I have to have this thing back together in two days I doubt the cam oiler can be had in this short time, but I will call them in the morning to see if they can overnight the kit. I really would like to just go roller and be done with it.

link to the oiler kit

http://www.off-road.com/chevy/reviews/bbc_oiler/


Thank you all for the help,

Dan
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Old 02-01-2004, 06:58 PM   #24 (permalink)
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FWIW Here is the solid roller cam I run in my boat. Makes great low end power. It's an ISKY grind
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Old 02-01-2004, 07:41 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Good luck. (I guess this puts the seatbelt testing on hold.)
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