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Old 02-05-2004, 10:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Another Marmon-Herrington axle question

Hi guys,
First post here, I've been lurking in the shadows for a good while. I'm building up a nasty K5 for ridge running and swamp slopping. I bought a Marmon-Herrington MC-80 5.13 front axle from a F450 to use as my front end. I did a search and came up with some discussion of these axles, but I had a few questions that I couldn't find the answers to. Do any of you guys have one of these axles? If so I would like to know if you have found a way to lock them up? Also, what size and spline are the axles? This thing is a freaking monster, but I haven't had time to take it apart yet to find out for myself. I called M-H today and they faxed me a copy of the parts/repair manual, but it didn't have all the dimensions listed. Can anybody help? Thanks
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Old 02-06-2004, 08:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Try pm'ing Steve Gerstner( that is his username as well). He will know about them.
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Old 02-07-2004, 04:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Steve has one in the front of his green crew cab (and he is the man to ask about these axles you speak of)
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Old 02-07-2004, 04:31 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks guys, I'll send him a PM. That dang axle weighs as much as my K5 almost
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Old 02-07-2004, 06:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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MC 80, big John.
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Old 02-07-2004, 06:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
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how bout some pics of the new rig steve.
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Old 02-07-2004, 09:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I would get lots of input before I thought any more about these axles . I speak from lots of fustrating experience . I used to work for Davey Tree Surgery and we had some 96 and 97 F450's that were converted to 4x . These were the biggest pieces of shit I have ever seen , not to mention a black hole and empty maintenance fund . Our main problem was with the Rotors , they failed quite often and are fairly pricey . Another was the locking hubs . They came with MM selectros wich never worked properly and rarley disengaged which let to worn out seals and eventually ruined the bearings and gears from the heat generated by the 5.13's . The tie rods were too close to the dually rims in our case and we could never use chains , breakines were also an issue . Each time we had one of these trucks in the shop , the minimum bill was $700 upwards to $2000 parts and labor . There were always delays in sourcing parts from MM , they said the axles were made in Itay hence the parts problem . Yes they look beefy as hell , but our Dana 70 equipped 92-93's were never a trouble and our trucks wheighed 10k pulling a 5k lb chipper . Not sure where the Dana 70's were sourced from , but suspect Dodge W series trucks .
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Old 02-08-2004, 12:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Wow, lot's of bad stuff there That sucks. You are not alone in your poor opinion of this axle. Other have been tellin me the same. Good thing I got a good deal on it I guess. Maybe I should rethink using it. Any ideas on what else to use. I am going to have about a 1000 pounds of Cummins over the axle plus another 250 from a winch bumper so I figured I would need something heavier duty that a 60. I have always heard horor stories about trying to fit Rockwells with out major lift because of oil pan clearance. I have also read that Dana 70s are basically the same as 60s with bigger stubs and ring gear. Any other thoughts? Thanks guys.
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Old 02-08-2004, 03:43 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Our dana 70's under our trucks are much larger than the 60 . I have compared them to our late 80's 1 tons and our new super duty's . Much like comparing a 44 to a 60 in basis of sheer size of the axle themselves
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Old 02-08-2004, 06:21 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by steelsoldiers
Wow, lot's of bad stuff there That sucks. You are not alone in your poor opinion of this axle. Other have been tellin me the same. Good thing I got a good deal on it I guess. Maybe I should rethink using it. Any ideas on what else to use. I am going to have about a 1000 pounds of Cummins over the axle plus another 250 from a winch bumper so I figured I would need something heavier duty that a 60. I have always heard horor stories about trying to fit Rockwells with out major lift because of oil pan clearance. I have also read that Dana 70s are basically the same as 60s with bigger stubs and ring gear. Any other thoughts? Thanks guys.

If your looking for heavy duty I would call Steve, Have you seen his dana80/rockwell??
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Old 02-08-2004, 11:57 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Daveyclimber
Our dana 70's under our trucks are much larger than the 60 . I have compared them to our late 80's 1 tons and our new super duty's . Much like comparing a 44 to a 60 in basis of sheer size of the axle themselves
OK, that sounds promising. I'll look into that too. Are the 70s you're talking about under F450 and larger trucks? I think they have 36" spring pad spacing and a passenger drop right? That's what this M-H axle is. One more question, are they 10 lug also or 8 lug. Thanks.

Jstarnes, I did see Steve's hybrid in another post. That thing is awesome! Ultimate beef with a pinion that's at a good height for a K5. Nice
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Old 02-08-2004, 12:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I believe the 70's to be originally found in Dodge W350 dually 1 tons , , They never came facotry in Fords or Chevy AFAIK
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Old 02-08-2004, 01:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Daveyclimber
I believe the 70's to be originally found in Dodge W350 dually 1 tons , , They never came facotry in Fords or Chevy AFAIK
I have only seen d70 fronts in pre-72 dodges (closed knuckle) and RV's.
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Old 02-08-2004, 02:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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These 70's I'm talkin about are open knuckle king pin style . Maybe they were made for another automaker ? Theya re passenger output , mated 205 with clocking adapter to the factory ford ZF 5 speed . I'll try to shoot some pics of one of these trucks
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Old 02-08-2004, 02:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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How do these MH axles compare to Mog, Rockwell axles? Or are they more like a D70 or D80?
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Old 02-08-2004, 02:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Daveyclimber
. I'll try to shoot some pics of one of these trucks
Pics would be great

I'm at a loss what to do about the axle. The housing and center section are so massive, I love it. It looks like a D60 on steroids. I have been thinking about ways to put aftermarket rotors and calipers on it, but then I am still stuck with a 30 spline stub the same size as the D60 so no advantage there. I guess I could put RW knuckles on it and use the USA6x6 disc kit since the pinion brake is out. Then again I am still stuck without a locker after all that work. I could spool it or weld it but that would be a PITA and the hubs would still be the weak link. Hmmm, I'm leaning towards just selling it and trying to find a D70 or MT-10 like this



At least it has a passenger drop and an available locker, but it is frickin' wide, like 90" WMS-WMS so that won't work either without major mods.

Here's a few shots of my axle:











It's a heavy bitch that's for sure. It about killed me, my Dad, and another guy loading it.
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Old 02-08-2004, 02:59 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Whats wrong with the factory brakes? If you paid attention to the above post complaining about them, you would have noticed that those brake issues were in trucks @ 10,000lbs gross, plus a 5,000 lb trailer in tow.

Just run it, the axle's original design specs so far exceed your intended use that you should have no problems.

Outside of that, all I could reccomend if you didn't want to go with the MH, is a built 60. HP center section, 300M shafts, and CTM u-joints. Yeah it would be expensive to build, but you wouldn't be reinventing the wheel either.

Personally, I think reinventing the wheel is more fun.
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Old 02-08-2004, 03:11 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Yeah the solid rotors are kinda odd for some of the modern applications they use these axles for . I think a contribuing problem with these axles is I believe they were never really designed for lockout hubs , I mean just look at all of the other marmon harrington axles . Pacific Gas and Electric has several large utility trucks that use some really beef marrmom haerringtons , but none are equiped with lockouts . We eventually shitcanned the MM selectros and used Hubs from Superwinch , they were better but not by much . I think there is a clearance issue with the stub shafts being too long to completely disengage from the hub . There is a small shim behind the locking hub that in my opinion is too thin . I had toyed with the idea of pulling the shafts and adding a thicker bushing or cutting some of the lenth down on the stub . I was transfered to another truck before I could get the go ahead to experiment .
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Old 02-08-2004, 03:18 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Whats wrong with the factory brakes?
Personally I have no experience with them. All I have to go on is experience from Davey and Steve. I received an email from Steve and he said the brakes are pretty worthless with bigger than 38" tires. I'm planning on running 42"s so that's why I am so cautious to put all the effort in moving perches, switching to a driver's drop t-case, etc... just to run an axle which is not up for the challenge. I am willing to experiment and put the hours in. I just don't want to waste my time on an obsolete design or something. Thanks for your input.
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Old 02-08-2004, 05:46 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Befor eyou completly delve into this , contact Marmon Harrington and find out how easy the parts are sourced or how difficult . Then get a price list to go with the parts sheet . You dont want to be paying 300 for each rotor and then have to wait a month to get it . No luck on the pics for the Dana 70 , they moved the truck out of our local yard for a few weeks .
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Old 02-08-2004, 10:14 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Oh well, thanks for trying. I'll give M-H a call and see how much parts are and how hard they are to get. When I called last time, the guy said there wasn't a price list and that I would just have to give him each number to find out the $$.
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Old 02-09-2004, 10:18 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Blazer

Hey,

Buddy of mine is waiting on you.....

You guys made a deal on a Military Blazer. That's what he wants to build.

He said you don't respond to emails. He just wants to know what's up now. He's located in OHIO.

Teach
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Old 02-09-2004, 06:06 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Hey Teach,
We emailed back and forth and even talked on the phone once. We talked about a trade for some axles and some cash. I emailed him a couple times about driving the axles down and picking up the Blazer because I had no way to transport it and I would give him the Blazer, some cash, and some pipe bumpers, but I never heard back from him so I figured the deal was off. A guy from Akron came down and hauled it off a few weeks ago. Tell him sorry it didn't work out, but I can probably find him another project if he's interested.
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