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Old 05-17-2017, 03:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Advice on welding FF spindles

Looking for some consensus on the direction to take for welding in my rear FF spindles. Housing (Sixty9) is from RuffStuff with 3.5x .375 tubes (2.75 ID). Spindles are Solid 40 spline that come with an OD of 3.50, along with an extension length of 4, so I already have to get them machined down to fit the tubes.

Housing:

[IMG][/IMG]

Spindle:

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]


Ive thought of two different ways I could go about having them machined, which would lead to two very different types of weld on the ends.
First would be to have the entire length of the extension turned down to 2.75 (plus a thou or two). This basically leaves me with something between a butt weld and a fillet weld.

Heres what Im talking about:

[IMG][/IMG]


The other way I was thinking about, would be to leave .5 of the full 3.50 OD of the spindle and have a bevel where it meets the axle tube. Another bevel on the tube and Ive got a full tube thickness groove weld.

Heres what Im thinking about on that:

[IMG][/IMG]


There will also be plug welds through the tube to the spindle.

So which way would you go? Im leaning towards the full groove weld.
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Old 05-17-2017, 03:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I am no expert by any means, but every single floater I have seen, and the one I had made, had them welded like your first idea, I've never seen it done like the second method. Take that for what it is worth.

EDIT: Actually my old rear end snouts(camburg) were welded like your second idea by a reputable guy.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...37320783_n.jpg

http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51...MjA3OQ%3D%3D.2
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1303273104
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I've seen it done both ways along with drilling holes in the axle tubing and dropping a couple of plug welds in
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I've done them like your second pick with plug welds, 1/2" shoulder on the top. Turn the bevel on the spindle while you're having it turned, doesn't cost any more.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:58 AM   #5 (permalink)
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That's what got me thinking about the second way. They will already be at the machine shop.

And yes, plug welds are in the plan too.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:23 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Would definitely weld it the first way depending on how u welded you will have more distortion the second way with more penetration. Plug welds are your best friend stronger and the fillet imo

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Old 05-18-2017, 08:15 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I would do it like your first picture except step the axle tube back .375" so you naturally have a prepped area for a fillet weld.

I would keep the weld away from the minor diameter of the spindle so you don't inadvertently cause a stress riser at its weakest point. The smooth machined radius they already have is perfect.
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:51 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I would do it like your first picture except step the axle tube back .375" so you naturally have a prepped area for a fillet weld.

I would keep the weld away from the minor diameter of the spindle so you don't inadvertently cause a stress riser at its weakest point. The smooth machined radius they already have is perfect.
That would certainly fix my issue with the weld layout of the first picture.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Personaly i would do #2

Either works fine.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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It's already been said, but I agree with the posts above. On mine, I had them machined with a .100" thick "flange" and butted them up against the tube. Not necessary, but it made sense in my head at the time to do it that way.

Anyway, check these pics out from my thread when I did it a couple years ago. I had my spindles offset machined (rather than try to un-warp my housing) and I had to use an alignment bar and some little machined sleeves to line everything up. Worked like a charm.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyot...l#post35921882

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyot...l#post35921922
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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How do they fit are they press or slip

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Old 05-19-2017, 10:47 AM   #12 (permalink)
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How do they fit are they press or slip
My thought is to have the spindles turned down a couple thou larger than the ID of the tubes. So not a slip fit, but also not so tight that it's a major process and race against time.

So, last night I layout where I need the machining done on the spindles (like the second picture). Then I install a hub to measure wms to the end of tube. Do a little math to figure out how long I need to cut the tubes. First tube lays out fine, second tube is 11/16th too short. Fuck me. Back to moving things around on the spindle to split that difference.

Going for 72" wms/wms. Didn't think that would be tough to do.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:54 AM   #13 (permalink)
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My thought is to have the spindles turned down a couple thou larger than the ID of the tubes. So not a slip fit, but also not so tight that it's a major process and race against time.

So, last night I layout where I need the machining done on the spindles (like the second picture). Then I install a hub to measure wms to the end of tube. Do a little math to figure out how long I need to cut the tubes. First tube lays out fine, second tube is 11/16th too short. Fuck me. Back to moving things around on the spindle to split that difference.

Going for 72" wms/wms. Didn't think that would be tough to do.
Had I hell of a time when I did my tubes getting things exactaly how I wanted them and it's still off a tad

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Old 05-19-2017, 04:59 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Had I hell of a time when I did my tubes getting things exactaly how I wanted them and it's still off a tad
Dropped everything off at the machinist today.

I'm not a machinist, so my terminology isn't correct. Here's what he said he wanted to do to make sure everything was straight. True up a spot on each end of the OD, which would allow him to use a secondary tool to hold the housing straight (so it would be held at both ends). Then he's true up the ID on one side, flip it around and true the other ID.
Then he'd have the ID numbers he'd need to turn the spindles for a press fit. He's going to press in the spindles and give me 4 tack welds on each in the grooves.

He's also got my front housing to cut the ends of the tubes to size. I forgot the C's today, I'll get those to him on Monday so he can true up the ends and set me up with a gentle dance with the fire and ice as opposed to a stuck C half way on with 30* of castor.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:03 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Sounds good if it a press fit then welding is just precautionary


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Old 05-19-2017, 05:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Sounds good if it a press fit then welding is just precautionary


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Old 05-19-2017, 05:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I would do it like your first picture except step the axle tube back .375" so you naturally have a prepped area for a fillet weld.

I would keep the weld away from the minor diameter of the spindle so you don't inadvertently cause a stress riser at its weakest point. The smooth machined radius they already have is perfect.
That's what I was going to say.

Honestly with as much engagement as you have, the weld probably isn't THAT critical.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:52 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Say what ?
It's not they don't weld tubes from the factory just press fit and plug weld to keep them from spinning. I'm pretty sure the only reason we weld around tubes is
1 stops and oil from leaking out
2 because we can

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Old 05-19-2017, 06:08 PM   #19 (permalink)
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After having talked to RuffStuff today, the mix up on width was all my fault. I had told them I was going with a 71" wms/wms. Somewhere during the last year and a half, I changed my mind (probably a few times). The housing would have been perfect for 71". I want 72" now though. Just wanted to make sure I didn't bash RuffStuff for something that was all my doing.

I just moved where the spindle machining will take place. Instead of 3.375" penetration into the tube, I'll have 2.6875" penetration. It's still almost a full tube ID worth of spindle sticking in. I still feel good about it, but the weld did just become a little more important.
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Old 05-21-2017, 10:07 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I build a trailer axle out of an old banjo rear end that had the tubes machines on bot ends and the spindle and diff were press fit over the tube. The diff was staked with plugs and the spindle was welded.

I've seen both the methods you pictured.

Your spindle doesn't fight wheel torque, just being pulled in and out. If you start with a tight slip fit at room temperature the spindle isn't going anywhere after the tube shrinks from welding. You could probably just lay a really fat bead on the tube and tack a few points around the spindle and it would probably be good (source: spent a lot of time near boat trailers).


Quote:
Originally Posted by rcurrier44 View Post
I would do it like your first picture except step the axle tube back .375" so you naturally have a prepped area for a fillet weld.

I would keep the weld away from the minor diameter of the spindle so you don't inadvertently cause a stress riser at its weakest point. The smooth machined radius they already have is perfect.
This is what I would do. Throw some plug welds in for good measure. If you really want to go crazy you could cut a wavy saw tooth pattern in the end of the tube for increased weld area.
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Old 05-21-2017, 06:59 PM   #21 (permalink)
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If you have the spindle at a machine shop, just have them put four oval slots then once you press them in, weld them up...more surface area then round plug welds...otherwise you can do it with a plasma cutter...its overkill but this is pirate and its easier to do it now then on the trail....
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:00 PM   #22 (permalink)
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If you have the spindle at a machine shop, just have them put four oval slots then once you press them in, weld them up...more surface area then round plug welds...otherwise you can do it with a plasma cutter...its overkill but this is pirate and its easier to do it now then on the trail....
Hadn't thought of, or ever seen oval "plug" welds on a axle but, I can see where you'll have more fusion between the two.

As of right now, the plan is for 4x .625"plug welds with a chamfer in the tube. Plugs at 12, 3, 6, 9.
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:29 PM   #23 (permalink)
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If you have the spindle at a machine shop, just have them put four oval slots then once you press them in, weld them up...more surface area then round plug welds...otherwise you can do it with a plasma cutter...its overkill but this is pirate and its easier to do it now then on the trail....
The spindle is going inside the tube.......
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Old 05-22-2017, 10:54 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Hadn't thought of, or ever seen oval "plug" welds on a axle but, I can see where you'll have more fusion between the two.

As of right now, the plan is for 4x .625"plug welds with a chamfer in the tube. Plugs at 12, 3, 6, 9.
Offset 3 and 9 an inch up the tube. Splitting hairs.
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Old 05-22-2017, 03:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
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The spindle is going inside the tube.......
I'm old and type poorly...read even worse!
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