Anyone know 2-ton 4x4 (utility truck) axles? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 10-15-2004, 10:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Anyone know 2-ton 4x4 (utility truck) axles?

dudes, I'm trying to put together a diesel 2-ton to mount my small knuckleboom on. I use it a lot in the rough, and the current IHC-1600 2wd just doesnt cut it. Have to use chains all the time. I have an axle question and "axles wanted".

I'm trying to either find a cheap older 4x4, like an old utility truck; or convert a regular 2wd 12' flatbed 2-ton to 4x4.

I've been warned that the 4x4's are usually pretty high ratio; i.e. bad freeway MPG. Is anyone here familiar with this size truck and the axles used in them?

I'd appreciate hearing a voice of experience telling me what's out there for axles, ratios, what $$ they can be found for, where to find 'em cheap, etc..

One thing I was hoping, is that there will be front-axles with ratios that match the "low range" ratio of the common 2-spd rear axles. Then I wouldn't have to worry about having a high-ratio front. I'd put in an interlock to prevent 4wd if the rear isn't in "lo"; and use the "high range" of the 2-spd rear, with t-case in 2wd, to get decent MPG on the road.

oh yeah, and if you have a diesel 2-ton short wheelbase, flatbed, or any body, or cab/chassis, 4x4 or 2WD, that's a good deal, or cheap axles for 2-tons, please let me know.

thanks!

Richard; 541-944-9746
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Old 10-16-2004, 07:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
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This thread should be over in Gen 4x4


Well I have a set of 2.5 ton Eaton axles modle #H-110 they have 6.17 gears
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Old 10-16-2004, 08:09 AM   #3 (permalink)
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This thread should be over in Gen 4x4


Well I have a set of 2.5 ton Eaton axles modle #H-110 they have 6.17 gears


It is now.
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Old 10-16-2004, 08:13 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Just get a surplus deuce and a half instead of trying to adapt something, probably work out about even with the cost of the swap and you'll end up with 6x6.
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Old 10-16-2004, 06:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
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BTW If you do end up using a 2 speed rear end, get the transfer case from a deuce. They're air shift, and will let you "disconnect" the front driveshaft from the drivetrain when not in use.

Oh, BTW, I am in the process of converting a deuce to a real highway machine, and there are a couple of things I'm doing proactively -
1. changing out the wheels from split ring 20's to r22.5 tires
2. upgrading the braking system to 2 master
3. Cat 3208, the current stopping block for which is finding .69 gears for the tranny (or just putting in a .69 OD tranny, since you can't put big enough tires on the rear axles to offset the miserable 6.72 ratio)

So if you have a truck with a leaf sprung steer axle front, you should be able to put a fabco (they put these in IHC 5 tons or whatever) or eaton axle in front (or if you can fit the driveline, a mil 5 ton at 6.44 ratio, already 10 hole budd)...

Another thing is I see trucks frequently on eBay... there was one on eBay a while ago that would have been perfect...

Cheers
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Old 10-17-2004, 01:19 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks for the ideas guys.

kw, my original plan WAS to get a deuce. But I gave it a lot of thought and decided against it. First, I think the psycho control-freaks in charge are close to declaring private mil-veh's illegal. Second, there are a lot of problems with a deuce as a work truck. Bad axle-ratios, no power-steering, noisy as HELL inside, weak motor, no OD, nasty wheels, poor brakes... I'd LOVE to have the 6x6 and off-road capability; but there are just too many minuses....plus the fear it'll be a boat-anchor when the law passes.

trango, thanks much for the suggestion on the t-case. good idea.

I'm still hoping to run across someone who really knows the 2-tons, and knows which ratios to look for to match the 2-speed rear to available fronts, etc.. It's going to be a project; but at least the things like power-steering, normal wheels/tires, cab comforts, solid high-power engine, will already be there. And when it's done, it'll be a capable 4x4 without any future legal problems.

That's the plan anyway...


ps; thanks for moving it CJ. Sorry 'bout that.
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Old 10-17-2004, 01:25 AM   #7 (permalink)
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What about the D80 front end that (I think it is) Steve Gerstner is working on

A deuce and half would work very well also. Good tight turning radius, cheap to buy. They have a good center of gravity compared to most 4x4 trucks of thier size, despite the top loader axles. You could even find a wrecker model for a bed mounted crane & winches at both ends.
Swap in a Ford IDI 7.3 turbo, Spicer 7 speed medium duty tranny, Rockwell t-case, 20R tires for some big knobby super singles A two stroke Detroit would work extremely well also, considering their ability to scream through higher RPMs and get good fuel economy. Some thing like a 6V53 Marine (twin turbo, very high HP) or a 71 series.

IHC also made (still makes) some cool 4x4 trucks. A buddy has a 71 (I think) 5 ton 4x4 dumptruck running the old IHC gas V8 and five speed tranny.
The axles are IHC, are salisbury style housings, and do not require the high center of gravity required to clear Rockwell 2.5 axles.
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Old 10-17-2004, 05:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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There is almost no way to answer your question because there are no real “common” applications for this type of truck. The axle ratios that are available range from 3.31, 3.58, 3.73, 3.91, 4.10, 4.30, 4.56, 4.88, 5.13, 5.29, 5.57, 5.86, 6.14, 6.83, 7.17 for a 10K Meritor (Rockwell) axle to as low as 2.79 in the 16K axle. Then you also have choice between a single speed T-case and a 2 speed case with low range. Then there is a wide variety of transmissions to chose from with some on/offroad Eatons having a lo-lo ratio of almost 20:1 and a high of 1:1.

I cannot think of any 2 speed rear axles compound low that would match with a standard gear ratio.

Your best bet is to look around and see what is available from the wreckers and plan around what you are able to source. I am guessing if you have a 2 speed rear that you only have a 5 or 6 speed transmission to start with. A conversion is going to be a bitch because a front driving axle is not going to be a drop beam so you will need to raise the back end as well. You will likely also run into steering issues as well.

Locally there are quite a few 4x4 and 6x6 trucks in the forestry and oilfield sectors but the cheapest I have seen anything go for is ~12K for mid 80's Ford F-700 gas trucks that have been to hell and back.

Another option would be the class 4 and 5 4x4 commercial trucks that both Ford and GM offer, depending on your GVWR needs.
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Old 10-17-2004, 07:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
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What # rating is your existing front axle? What wheel bolt pattern?

Maybe you can get by with a D60 or D70 front... or get something like this - complete or for parts:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...494844136&rd=1
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Old 10-17-2004, 07:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=Robert]What about the D80 front end that (I think it is) Steve Gerstner is working on


This dana 80 front is too small, you need to find a rockwell from a F600 or F700. This uint is a FDS75 - rated at 7,500 lbs. and should have the same wheel pattern. The years to look for would be 1969 to 1982, and T case would be a rockwell 223. steve
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Old 10-17-2004, 08:11 PM   #11 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=steve gerstnerThis dana 80 front is too small, you need to find a rockwell from a F600 or F700. This uint is a FDS75 - rated at 7,500 lbs. and should have the same wheel pattern. The years to look for would be 1969 to 1982, and T case would be a rockwell 223. steve[/QUOTE]

Ford runs D60s fronts in F450s and 550s, I don't see how it would be much of a stretch to run a D80 in a two ton rated truck. In a truck this size, a driving front axle is more of a last resort, get out of trouble deal, than the get yourself further into trouble like we use front axles for. It mostly just needs to be able to support the weight of the vehicle & carry big enough brakes.
Torque capacity would be secondary.
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Old 10-17-2004, 08:20 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by d9d
Thanks for the ideas guys.

kw, my original plan WAS to get a deuce. But I gave it a lot of thought and decided against it. First, I think the psycho control-freaks in charge are close to declaring private mil-veh's illegal.

Other issues not withstanding, I dont see any trouble on the legal front. There are too many antique and mil vehicles on the road in the hands of both buisness and private owners. Hell, if my dads 1914 model T can still be driven on the road I doubt you'll have any trouble with a deuce and a half.

Just trying to knock a potential hurdle out of your way.
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Old 10-17-2004, 08:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If he is wanting something similar to a International 1600 he is not going to want a D60/70/80 under it. Besides the fact that the BP, Brakes and steering would be wrong it will also be too narrow and not strong enough. The 1600 came with GVWR from ~17k to 30k. A 7500# Rockwell is massive compared to a 6000# Dana 60. The FDS axles changed to the RF series in 1989. Meritor doesn't have a RF axle under 16K, the MX series from 10K to 16K is what is used in this model range.
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Old 10-17-2004, 09:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Buy a Deuce then swap on: power steering, an older RTO-910 fuller 10 speed, and either a IHC 466 or a 5.9 cummins then exit the exhaust behind the cab and your set.

24" wheels would help in the speed dept, but I don't know for sure if they'll bolt up.
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Old 10-17-2004, 09:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=Robert]
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve gerstnerThis dana 80 front is too small, you need to find a rockwell from a F600 or F700. This uint is a FDS75 - rated at 7,500 lbs. and should have the same wheel pattern. The years to look for would be 1969 to 1982, and T case would be a rockwell 223. steve[/QUOTE

Ford runs D60s fronts in F450s and 550s, I don't see how it would be much of a stretch to run a D80 in a two ton rated truck. In a truck this size, a driving front axle is more of a last resort, get out of trouble deal, than the get yourself further into trouble like we use front axles for. It mostly just needs to be able to support the weight of the vehicle & carry big enough brakes.
Torque capacity would be secondary.

Thats pretty cute telling Steve what his custom one off axle should be able to do

http://www.auto-rv.com/default.asp?a...adname=1-97112

Here is something for sale around here
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Old 10-18-2004, 05:51 AM   #16 (permalink)
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What about an old deuce & a half with a fuel-all motor?? You can run anything that burns except for AV fuel....
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Old 10-18-2004, 06:24 AM   #17 (permalink)
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the village road maintenance dept. around here used to run an S-160(?) series international 4x4 dumptruck with a plow. It had a dana 70 front axle with drum brakes, and a large 6 lug pattern. They also have an old 4x4 Loadstar 1600 that has a utility body and a crane, but idk what the front axle in that thing is. I would guess another drum'd dana 70.
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Old 10-18-2004, 09:06 AM   #18 (permalink)
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The old deuce and a half with the multifuel motor makes a whopping 134 HP, and although it does grunt out 435 ft lbs, on a loaded truck you're looking at 15k GVW easy. You CAN run anything except avvy fuel (jp2?) in the Multifuel engine, but that's because the engine is so derated that it won't crackle even with low octane gas in it. The 5 ton block is actually close to the same with a bigger turbo and some slight internal differences, but makes ~180HP with just more boost. I was initially sold on doing that on my deuce but after all the hoopla you still have shit gas mileage and you really have to keep an eye on the pyro, what with the 1950's engine technology.

The real problem with swapping junk into a deuce is the engine and tranny length. Right now I'm looking at running a Spicer 5000 or 6000 series tranny (probably 6000, newer), along with that cat v8, which combined is almost the same length as the stock multifuel engine and the 3053a tranny (which is about half the total oomph of the 6000 series).

Anyway, the deuce is a problematic but really inexpensive platform. I got mine for about $3000, and I'm putting about $3000 in upgrades into it, but once I'm done, I'll have the most rippingest offroad haul truck ever.

Oh yeah, and no worries on trucks suddenly being made illegal. There are THOUSANDS of them in service, and no way would they suddenly ban em without at least a grandfather provision, like old 2 stroke streetbikes.

Cheers
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Old 10-18-2004, 06:34 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davethorik
the village road maintenance dept. around here used to run an S-160(?) series international 4x4 dumptruck with a plow. It had a dana 70 front axle with drum brakes, and a large 6 lug pattern. They also have an old 4x4 Loadstar 1600 that has a utility body and a crane, but idk what the front axle in that thing is. I would guess another drum'd dana 70.
I have seen one of those trucks with a dana 70 front, drum brakes, ball&socket, 6 on 8.750 - it would scare me to death just to drive one of these trucks weighing 20,000 lbs. steve
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