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Old 08-27-2005, 06:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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jeep used 2.1L turbo diesel supplied by Renault

Hello y'all

jeep cherokee was available with a Renault supplied turbo diesel engine
anyone fmiliar with this J8S motor

Please and thanks:

Peace
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Old 08-27-2005, 07:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
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jeep sells lots of diesel engines in europe. that one is french, and nothing good can come of it.
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Old 08-27-2005, 07:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yeah because Renault designed the XJ When they owned AMC. Thats why some also have Peugeot Trannys. Its a French jeep. Was not available in the US with that motor or only for a very short time as far as I know.

Little History for them asshat hummer owners. AMC owned AM General till the military said they wouldn't buy from a foreign owned company. So AM General became its own entity separate from AMC and partly why the Jeep was dropped from Military use.
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Old 08-27-2005, 07:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Old 08-27-2005, 07:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Renault didn't design the XJ. They injected a lot of money into AMC, which allowed Jeep to design and tool for the XJ, but other than some EFI electronics, I don't think they contributed much (Peugeot has nothing to do with Renault, as far as I know??). Renault had never built any 4x4's, so I doubt they had much to contribute.
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Old 08-27-2005, 08:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Renault didn't design the XJ. They injected a lot of money into AMC, which allowed Jeep to design and tool for the XJ, but other than some EFI electronics, I don't think they contributed much. Renault had never built any 4x4's, so I doubt they had much to contribute.

Quote:
Trucks use what is called body-on-frame construction with very few exceptions (VW and Jeep Commanche). The Cherokee uses uni-body construction like most passenger cars. The net result is a very strong, lightweight body. Renault doesn't know how to sell cars in the US, but they do know how to build lightweight car bodies.
http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty-history.html

Renault owned AMC at the time so that makes it a Renault design by most peoples book. After all they bank rolled it like you pointed out and they owned the controling interest. What part of it being a Renault design are you having a problem swallowing?
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Old 08-27-2005, 10:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Renault 2.1L 4cyl. Turbo Diesel - 85 hp @ 3750 rpm, 132 ft lb @ 2750 rpm - used in 85-87

Italian VM 2.5L Turbo Diesel - 140 hp, 236 ft lb torque - used in overseas XJs
yea
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Old 08-28-2005, 05:22 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I have nothing against Renault. But why would a company that never built a 4x4 design one for a company that built nothing but 4x4's? IMO it was Renault's funding that allowed Jeep to develop the XJ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Reaper
What part of it being a Renault design are you having a problem swallowing?
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Old 08-28-2005, 08:31 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel
I have nothing against Renault. But why would a company that never built a 4x4 design one for a company that built nothing but 4x4's? IMO it was Renault's funding that allowed Jeep to develop the XJ.
Did you read thatqote and follow that link? Did you see who wrote that? It was wrote bythe guy who helped design the suspension on the XJ.
Quote:
Evan Boberg, former Chrysler and AMC suspension engineer
He probably had a lot better understanding of who was responsible for what then you or I and would risk throwing out false statements such as.
Quote:
The Cherokee uses uni-body construction like most passenger cars. The net result is a very strong, lightweight body. Renault doesn't know how to sell cars in the US, but they do know how to build lightweight car bodies.
Understand the corporate way things work.

Renault OWNED controlling interest of AMC at the time the XJ came into existence. They OWNED controlling interest from 79-87. Cherokee was 84 as I recall. Renault as the owner was controlling the company and decided that the Cherokee needed to down size as a move to help improve company standing and market share. They were after all tanking at that point with a lot of VERY dated designs.

Renault then pumped money into AMC to help save it and to help fund the development of this new design that.
A. THEY DICTATED THE DESIGN PARAMETER I.E. THE "UNI-BODY" .

B. HAD FINAL APPROVAL ON THE DESIGN.


Understanding those two givens and understanding how big business does business you can bet the bread money on RENAULT having their people heading up or influencing that design team since they had so much money tied up into the development. THEY OWNED AMC for all intents and purposes but but it operated as its own entity in the same way Jag is to Ford. Think about how jags changed after Ford got control and then relate that to Renaults ownership of AMC.

So from that can you grasp that the XJ is a Renault bankrolled (as you keep pointing out, Design parameter dictated, influenced, approved and the Companies controlling interests was owned by Renault and a total change in the way AMC ever did anything at all? Does it click that the XJ is Renaults design as a result and in the style that they built cars in France?


Here look at a few of these links. Pay attention to what Renault cars looked like in 84. They are all slab side boxes just like the XJ. The XJ was brought to you by the same influences that put the Le Car and Renault Reliance on the road.
http://site.voila.fr/renaultusa/english/index.html
http://www.auto-historia.com.ar/Mode...%20Modelos.htm
Here is a really good one.
http://www.amxfiles.com/amc/part5.html

Here is another really good one where you can see the Renault and Peugeot history where they often sourced each other for parts LIKE TRANSMISSIONS FOR JEEPS.
http://www.psa-peugeot-citroen.com/e...renault_b2.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRV_engine
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Old 08-28-2005, 09:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
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You are right in that Renault had a lot influence in the overall lines of the new vehicle and you are absolutely right about corporate outsorcing (renix injection, transmissions...) but what I was trying to say is that the statement "Renault designed the XJ" is not accurate. They were probably given a list of requirements from the company management and the Jeep engineers had to work around them. I very much doubt Renault gave Jeep a set of blueprints and told them to build that.

One thing I really fail to see is the aesthetical similarity between the Cherokee and contemporary Renault products. I lived in Europe (Spain) from 77 to 94 and I have been in, under and around many Renaults, 4, 5, 9, 11, 19, 25... If anything, I would say that the XJ shares a lot of styling cues from the earlier FSJ line.

Anyway, whoever designed the XJ did a heck of a job
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Old 08-28-2005, 09:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Old 08-28-2005, 10:14 AM   #12 (permalink)
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You guys can give all the credit to Renault for the XJ that you want, but most of it's misplaced.


You want to know where 90 percent of the mechanicals for the XJ came from, look at the AMC Eagle.

Same D35 rear axle (same width, bolt patturn, spring spacing, SOA configuration = it'll bolt right it)
Same ft brakes (also bolt on)
Same unit hubs (- the inner casting)
Same original tranny's (84-86 XJ's)
Similar T-cases (no low range for Eagles though)
4cyl engine = same
6cyl engine = different (AMC L6 vs Chevy V6), till AMC's L6 could be redesigned to fit the new chasis (in 87 as the 4.0L)

Other stuff:
Unitbody, yup Eagle has it (AMC was the major innovator of Unit construction, even in the 50's when everything was body on frame).
The "Eagle" uniframe was designed in 1969 (as the Hornet). Where was Renault then?

Boxy design:
Jeep was doing that since after the war, when their commercial type metal working equiptment (more suited for refrigerators & washing machines) couldn't make the complicated, swooping bends of the competition.
Even after they got their act together, the boxyness was their trademark, and they kept it.
Where are all the 'swoopy' Jeeps AMC was building till Renault told them to build boxy?

4door (this was a big deal in 1984), Jeep did that when almost no one else did, with the original Wagoneers in 1962 (when even the Suburban only had 3 doors).
Why would they need Renaults 'help' 20 years later to continue to offer 4door's?

Renault did dump a bunch of $$ into AMC/Jeep (because the US government wouldn't give them a loan like they did for Lee Iacocca ),
but they mostly allowed AMC/Jeep to expand in their current line of thinking, AND (most importaint to Renault) provide an existing dealer network for Renault to showcase their lineup of cars.

They did influence Jeep, as seen with the Bendix/Renix engine controls, Diesel engine and Peugeot tranny's (part of the deal to offer French content in the vehicles).
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Old 08-28-2005, 10:16 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel
You are right in that Renault had a lot influence in the overall lines of the new vehicle and you are absolutely right about corporate outsorcing (renix injection, transmissions...) but what I was trying to say is that the statement "Renault designed the XJ" is not accurate. They were probably given a list of requirements from the company management and the Jeep engineers had to work around them. I very much doubt Renault gave Jeep a set of blueprints and told them to build that.

One thing I really fail to see is the aesthetical similarity between the Cherokee and contemporary Renault products. I lived in Europe (Spain) from 77 to 94 and I have been in, under and around many Renaults, 4, 5, 9, 11, 19, 25... If anything, I would say that the XJ shares a lot of styling cues from the earlier FSJ line.

Anyway, whoever designed the XJ did a heck of a job
X2 on all
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Old 08-28-2005, 12:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnjim
You guys can give all the credit to Renault for the XJ that you want, but most of it's misplaced.


You want to know where 90 percent of the mechanicals for the XJ came from, look at the AMC Eagle.

Same D35 rear axle (same width, bolt patturn, spring spacing, SOA configuration = it'll bolt right it)
Same ft brakes (also bolt on)
Same unit hubs (- the inner casting)
Same original tranny's (84-86 XJ's)
Similar T-cases (no low range for Eagles though)
4cyl engine = same
6cyl engine = different (AMC L6 vs Chevy V6), till AMC's L6 could be redesigned to fit the new chasis (in 87 as the 4.0L)

yadda yadda yadda).
Do me a favor and e-mail that "Evan Boberg, former Chrysler and AMC suspension engineer" dude and set him straight.

You tell him what your telling me because you set me straight and my brain mistakenly took what he wrote and what others wrote and I read and repeated was TOTALLY wrong. Especially that Jeep history show I watched on the History channel on TV where they covered the history of the Jeep and point blank said it was Renaults ideas and design directives was absolutely wrong during the 10ish years Renault controlled AMC and Jeep. You let him know he's a fawking lying ignorant fawk that doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground and is totally wrong in his statements on the vehicle that he and the design staff he worked with took off the shelf components that Jeep was already on the CJ's and using to save money just was such a fawking novel idea that no other company like Renault, Ford, Chevy could have come up with like AMC Jeep did and used them on the XJ suspension system he helped design and that none of that stuff he did and saw while HE WORKED THERE ON THAT PROJECT he did. He really should just shut the fawk up because you know more then him. You should also tell Renault brass the same,they are a bunch of dumb ass's too and they just thought that when they owned controlling interest of that company that they actually did anything that they really didn't. That vehicle would have come out and saved Jeep without them because god knows it was on the AMC/Jeep design boards long before Renault took control in 79. That they did nothing at all to influence it in the 5 years they had control before it came out in 84.

Thanks I aspire to be just like you with my blinders on with a closed mind Arguing the grass is pink because I wear red sun glasses all the time so its always pink.


Documented Facts that I gave you links too, including a couple corporate links are pointless with you guys. I need to go finish mowing my pink grass now.

I'm done. Let me put on my sunglasses.
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Old 08-28-2005, 12:38 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Reaper
Do me a favor and e-mail that "Evan Boberg, former Chrysler and AMC suspension engineer" dude and set him straight.

You tell him what your telling me because you set me straight and my brain mistakenly took what he wrote and what others wrote and I read and repeated was TOTALLY wrong. Especially that Jeep history show I watched on the History channel on TV where they covered the history of the Jeep and point blank said it was Renaults ideas and design directives was absolutely wrong during the 10ish years Renault controlled AMC and Jeep. You let him know he's a fawking lying ignorant fawk that doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground and is totally wrong in his statements on the vehicle that he and the design staff he worked with took off the shelf components that Jeep was already on the CJ's and using to save money just was such a fawking novel idea that no other company like Renault, Ford, Chevy could have come up with like AMC Jeep did and used them on the XJ suspension system he helped design and that none of that stuff he did and saw while HE WORKED THERE ON THAT PROJECT he did. He really should just shut the fawk up because you know more then him. You should also tell Renault brass the same,they are a bunch of dumb ass's too and they just thought that when they owned controlling interest of that company that they actually did anything that they really didn't. That vehicle would have come out and saved Jeep without them because god knows it was on the AMC/Jeep design boards long before Renault took control in 79. That they did nothing at all to influence it in the 5 years they had control before it came out in 84.

Thanks I aspire to be just like you with my blinders on with a closed mind Arguing the grass is pink because I wear red sun glasses all the time so its always pink.


Documented Facts that I gave you links too, including a couple corporate links are pointless with you guys. I need to go finish mowing my pink grass now.

I'm done. Let me put on my sunglasses.
Cool, send me their numbers.



When you calm down, take a look at anything that says Jeep on it from the 40's, 50's, 60's etc.
Are they boxy?

Then why did your all your close pals at Renault need to tell Jeep to build something boxy?
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Old 08-28-2005, 01:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Reaper
Do me a favor and e-mail that "Evan Boberg, former Chrysler and AMC suspension engineer" dude and set him straight.

You tell him what your telling me because you set me straight and my brain mistakenly took what he wrote and what others wrote and I read and repeated was TOTALLY wrong. Especially that Jeep history show I watched on the History channel on TV where they covered the history of the Jeep and point blank said it was Renaults ideas and design directives was absolutely wrong during the 10ish years Renault controlled AMC and Jeep. You let him know he's a fawking lying ignorant fawk that doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground and is totally wrong in his statements on the vehicle that he and the design staff he worked with took off the shelf components that Jeep was already on the CJ's and using to save money just was such a fawking novel idea that no other company like Renault, Ford, Chevy could have come up with like AMC Jeep did and used them on the XJ suspension system he helped design and that none of that stuff he did and saw while HE WORKED THERE ON THAT PROJECT he did. He really should just shut the fawk up because you know more then him. You should also tell Renault brass the same,they are a bunch of dumb ass's too and they just thought that when they owned controlling interest of that company that they actually did anything that they really didn't. That vehicle would have come out and saved Jeep without them because god knows it was on the AMC/Jeep design boards long before Renault took control in 79. That they did nothing at all to influence it in the 5 years they had control before it came out in 84.

Thanks I aspire to be just like you with my blinders on with a closed mind Arguing the grass is pink because I wear red sun glasses all the time so its always pink.


Documented Facts that I gave you links too, including a couple corporate links are pointless with you guys. I need to go finish mowing my pink grass now.

I'm done. Let me put on my sunglasses.
Wow, just reading your stuff makes my blood pressure go up, "holy run on veins are popping out of my head as I type run on sentences".


I'm trying to understand, and respond.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Reaper
Especially that Jeep history show I watched on the History channel on TV
First, "The History Channel"

Those guys got almost everything wrong.
Quote them if you want, but wow.

Did you notice the pic they showed of a "1940's Willy's Station Wagon" was a Rino grilled 1962+ Waggy?
There were alot more mistakes than that, but that one is enough for me.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Reaper
"10ish years Renault controlled AMC and Jeep"


January 1979 an agreement was signed, that allowed Renault to use AMC's dealer network.



October 1979 Renault agreed to buy 5% of all AMC stock @ $10 a share.(AMC needed money to expand THEIR ideas)
Is 5% controlling interest?



EVENTUALLY (NOT in 1979) Renault bought 22.5% ownership of AMC/Jeep



September 1979 AMC Eagle's were released for the 1980 model year.


Wow, those Renault guys work fast, the vast majority of the 84-86 XJ's mechanicals were already designed, and available at AMC dealerships in 9/79, a month BEFORE Renault owned even 5% of AMC



March 1987 Chrysler signs an agreement to purchase AMC/Jeep
August 1987, Chrysler owns Jeep.



October 1979 (when Renault owned a paultry 5%) to August 1987 = not even 8 years, not 10ish.



I'm having trouble translating alot of the rest of your post, but I have no idea who Evan Boberg is, so it's hard to argue what he does, or doesn't know.
I'm sure the guy knows more about this stuff than I do, and if he was here, I'd show him his due respect.
But then again, I don't think he'd be freaking out over this.




Bottom line:
AMC spec'd out the vast majority drivetrain of the XJ.
If they didn't, how did they have had so much of it available in 1979 (in the Eagle)?


I don't know what parts of the XJ your so convinced that Renaut penned.


Renault held the purse strings, so maybe AMC 'let them think' this stuff was their idea?

Unibody construction was a natural for AMC's first 'clean sheet of paper' Jeep build.
They were trying to build a smaller, lighter Waggy, that got much better gas mileage.
Unibody construction (that they were THE experts on) was a natural for that application.

Continuing the mechanicals used on the Eagle was also a natural, that stuff was already paid for, and more, or less up to the task.

Boxy looks, another big surprise there.
Jeep = boxy.

Alot of the smaller detail items on XJ's say Renault to me, but all the big stuff all says AMC/Jeep.
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Old 08-28-2005, 02:14 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Since I've helped bog down this thread, I'll try to answer the original question

From 1985 & 1987 Jeep Data books, and 86' brochures:

2.1L Intercooed, Turbo Diesel

Bosh EPVE Fuel Injection
Garrett T2 Turbocharger
air to air intercooler
Overhead Cam
Cast Aluminum block
Ricardo Comet 5 patturn aluminum head (who ever Ricardo Comet was )

2065cc
86mmx89mm bxs (3.39"x3.50")
21.5:1cr
1-3-4-2 firing order
Forged steel crank
5 main bearings

Warm weather = number 2-D fuel
Cold weather = number 1-D fuel
5.0 qt engine oil capacity



Available 1985-87 in USA market Jeep XJ & MJ's.

1985 available with either a 3spd auto, or 5 spd std, makes no mention of 2wd vs 4wd.

1986 available with either 3spd auto, or 5spd manual, no mention of 2wd vs 4wd, or MJ vs XJ availablity

1987 available with 5spd only (AX5)
4x4 only in XJ
2x4 longbed only in MJ

1988 = no mention.
Quietly ditched by Chrysler along with FSJ pickups, and D44's in XJ's (XJ 44's may been available for some time after, but they were taken off the option list after 87')
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Old 08-28-2005, 02:58 PM   #18 (permalink)
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As for Eagle parts being the same as XJ stuff, sounds to me like whoever designed the XJ looked into the parts bin and picked stuff that'd work to keep costs down. Pretty common occourance in the automotive industry for a "totally new design" to use existing parts from another model to ease the cost of production.
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