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Old 09-26-2005, 11:22 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Arrow Brownie / browny auxiliary transmissions

I was hoping we could put together some information on browny transmissions and I know... maybe this isn't tech enough to be here.. but here's the question anyways.

I have been searching here on the board & google for the past couple days looking to find information on these types of transmissions, and I haven't found but a couple of sites. Does anyone know of a good source of info on these things?

Here is one on the Spicer 5831, 3 speed model: http://www.6066gmcguy.org/spicer-5831-b.htm

And my second question is, where can you find these things? Military trucks? Semi Trucks? Big Caterpillar machinery?

Thanks

Found this link too,
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4754665.html

Last edited by kury; 09-26-2005 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 09-26-2005, 11:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kury
I was hoping we could put together some information on browny transmissions and I know... maybe this isn't tech enough to be here.. but here's the question anyways.

I have been searching here on the board & google for the past couple days looking to find information on these types of transmissions, and I haven't found but a couple of sites. Does anyone know of a good source of info on these things?

Here is one on the Spicer 5831, 3 speed model: http://www.6066gmcguy.org/spicer-5831-b.htm

And my second question is, where can you find these things? Military trucks? Semi Trucks? Big Caterpillar machinery?

Thanks
You should start looking into heavy duty truck wrecking yards, with older trucks. The brownies were very popular in the 50's and 60's. I hope you have plenty of wheel base, because your going to need it. Good luck.
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Old 09-26-2005, 11:50 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Any specific makes or models of old trucks that I should be looking for?

Thanks
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Old 09-26-2005, 12:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kury
Any specific makes or models of old trucks that I should be looking for?

Thanks
I only know them from International's, but that is because IH's is what I do. I assume every larger over the road truck had them, and if your in the logging community, look for them in old log trucks. Many logging trucks here in the NW had them because they needed the deepest gear for going up and coming down the mountains, but once they hit the highway they needed the speed to get them to the logs to the mills, after all your pay is based on the loads you can carry in a day. If I was looking for one I would start with heavy haulers in hilly areas, which in my area means log trucks.
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Old 09-26-2005, 12:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
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You said you know them from International's. Do you happen to know if international has ever had a 3 or 4 speed browny in any of there rigs?
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Old 09-26-2005, 12:41 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kury
You said you know them from International's. Do you happen to know if international has ever had a 3 or 4 speed browny in any of there rigs?
The majority I have seen/driven were 3 speed, but I know you could get 4's, so I assume there is some IH's out there somewhere with them. I have seen them in everything from teh late 40's up to the mid 60's.
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Old 09-26-2005, 12:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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You can start by searching on them by their proper name.

They are properly called Brown Lipe auxiliary transmissions. Models exist in the 5000, 6000, and 7000 series, although I don't know those numbers. Typically, (if not always, I just don't know), they have a deep underdrive, a straight ratio middle, and then somewhere around a .75 OD.

I was actually just talking to a fellow big truck builder today about these. I am looking for a .73 or .75 airshift 9-speed, and he suggested a brownie on the back of a straight ratio tranny, but then the problem is, again, wheel base.

I've heard about these being used successfully on longbed 2wd one tons, but for a 4wd vehicle, you are stuck in the position of needing a short 2wd tranny, then a brownie, then a divorced driveshaft, with room for a spud shafts in between each pairing of components. By the time you're out the overhead door, your rear driveshaft is 2.5 feet long and your front needs a pillow block around where the stock tranny is.

I think you're going to have much more success, in a standard 4wd truck, just gearing your axles higher, and then running one of the very low transfer cases commercially available. Reinventing the wheel, when a wheel can already be bought, gets tiresome, no matter what the "cost savings" is.

Bob
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Old 09-26-2005, 12:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You can start by searching on them by their proper name.

They are properly called Brown Lipe auxiliary transmissions. Models exist in the 5000, 6000, and 7000 series, although I don't know those numbers. Typically, (if not always, I just don't know), they have a deep underdrive, a straight ratio middle, and then somewhere around a .75 OD.

I was actually just talking to a fellow big truck builder today about these. I am looking for a .73 or .75 airshift 9-speed, and he suggested a brownie on the back of a straight ratio tranny, but then the problem is, again, wheel base.

I've heard about these being used successfully on longbed 2wd one tons, but for a 4wd vehicle, you are stuck in the position of needing a short 2wd tranny, then a brownie, then a divorced driveshaft, with room for a spud shafts in between each pairing of components. By the time you're out the overhead door, your rear driveshaft is 2.5 feet long and your front needs a pillow block around where the stock tranny is.

I think you're going to have much more success, in a standard 4wd truck, just gearing your axles higher, and then running one of the very low transfer cases commercially available. Reinventing the wheel, when a wheel can already be bought, gets tiresome, no matter what the "cost savings" is.

Bob
All this plus the added weight and getting to clear and tuck into the frame, among other issues with adding it to a fwd.
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Old 09-26-2005, 01:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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A friend of mine has a couple of Brownies. They are two speed divorced units. One interesting point on these two speed units is that they are reversable. By simply swapping the bearing retainers on the front and rear of the case, you could have either an overdrive or an underdrive. They also have PTO covers, allowing the use of a PTO for a winch or hydraulic pump.
He plans to use one in a IHC 1 ton 4x4 service truck for his bulldozer business.
It will have a five speed manual, D70s front and rear, 4.88 gears, Brownie set up as an overdrive.
The old Spicer five speeds used in IHCs are direct drive in fifth gear, and very low in first, so in this truck, an overdrive is needed.
The issues he is facing in this project is not wheelbase related, but the lack of a tranny tunnel at the back of the cab or under the bed. The drivetrain will be lengthy with a divorced Brownie between the five speed and a divorced NP205.
Next time I am at the shop, I will shoot some photos of the Brownies units.

The units everybody is talking about with heavy trucks would be way too big for use in smaller 4x4s.
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Old 09-26-2005, 02:16 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I've seen similar units from Brabnod (?) mountain gear....
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Old 09-26-2005, 02:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
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there is this unit aswell..

stak4x4.com
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Old 09-26-2005, 03:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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there is this unit aswell..

stak4x4.com
Yeah, but that's not a Browne transmission, it only offers you underdrive ratio's and direct, no overdrive. OD is the reason most people run a browne, so they can have the low-low to crawl up the hills, and the OD when they are running flat out on flat roads. The Stak case, while a good idea for a transfer case, does nothing for you in the OD sense.
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Old 09-26-2005, 03:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Diesel Smoke
Yeah, but that's not a Browne transmission, it only offers you underdrive ratio's and direct, no overdrive. OD is the reason most people run a browne, so they can have the low-low to crawl up the hills, and the OD when they are running flat out on flat roads. The Stak case, while a good idea for a transfer case, does nothing for you in the OD sense.
Not all browny boxes are OD boxes though either.. there are several that have 1 or more under drives & a direct.
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Old 09-26-2005, 04:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Not all browny boxes are OD boxes though either.. there are several that have 1 or more under drives & a direct.
True, but I see the usefulness of a Browne is it has an OD gear. I can get plenty of creep out of axle/tranny or T/C gearing, however you don't have the option for an OD. At least when were talking about IH's. If I was building a buggy and could use any component I wanted it would be a different story.
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Old 09-26-2005, 06:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
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My $.02
Smallest Spicer is a 5831, 3 spd, avail in A,B,C ratios. Some parts are getting hard to find. Spicer bought out Watson in the late 50's or early 60's and shelved their realy nice 2 an 3 sp aux units. Parts are pretty much all gone now so they would not be a good investment. The Chelsea division of Spicer expermented with a direct/over or direct and under unit in the mid 70's. They were made too light and were all "recalled" by Spicer. No parts available. All these unit had PTO provisions. Hone produced and overdrive or underdrive unit that was syncronized in the late 60's-early 70's. They fit between the engine and the trans and only took up 6-7 inches. Applications were mostly CH465, T18, T19. They were bought out by Rockwell in the early 80"s and you had the Ranger 2XT. And that was bought out by Advance Adapt and is the unit you see today. The early IHC's had 3 models of their mid range 5 spd. T34--OD, T35--Direct, and T36---Short 4th for 2 speed rearends. They all went in the same case and could be identified by counting teeth.
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Old 09-27-2005, 08:32 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Hey,

If anyone needs a low and I mean LOW OD tranny, I am trying to find a buyer for a Spicer 6855 (data tag actually reads "Brown Lipe", this is an OLD tranny). This is an aluminum case 5 speed with a .695 5th gear. With the rockwells, first gear is pretty much useless, and there's just not enough splits in the tranny as is. I'd take $500 for this unit with SAE #2 Bellhousing. PM me for more details...
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Old 09-27-2005, 02:07 PM   #17 (permalink)
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A 700r4 has a .70 OD and a TH200-4R overdrive automatic utilizes a 0.67 Overdrive, so .695 is not that rare. Medium duty truck transmissions have OD as low as .62 on a manual gearbox. What did the transmission come from originally?? Do you know specs for torque, input shaft, clutch type, etc.??
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Old 09-27-2005, 02:16 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85blue4runner
A 700r4 has a .70 OD and a TH200-4R overdrive automatic utilizes a 0.67 Overdrive, so .695 is not that rare. Medium duty truck transmissions have OD as low as .62 on a manual gearbox. What did the transmission come from originally?? Do you know specs for torque, input shaft, clutch type, etc.??
Ahem. If you find me a remotely modern .62 tranny that doesn't weigh 800 lbs, please let me know where I could get one, so I can buy it immediately. Lowest I can find are the .80 Fullers. I'm currently looking for an airshift 9-13 speed that I can hang in the deuce behind the 3208T, for the shorter throw shifter, easier shifting on an otherwise all-manual truck, better splits, and more gears than, well, 4 forward gears. My truck is about to get much more efficient and I want to utilize that on hills. Double clutching / Speed shifting 3rd (despite a full freaking pull/syncro rebuild/reinstallation on Labor Day) is also getting old.

6855 is a push type clutch, 1.5" input gear SAE 10 spline, torque is anyone's guess. I have the 6000 series manual but it does not list torque. I made the output companion flange to fit a rockwell driveshaft stub.

Sorry guys, this is really a "tow rig" forum post.

Bob
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Old 09-27-2005, 02:18 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Oh yeah, I also modified the bellhousing and seriously modified a new throwout bearing to serve in the interface... quite the little project.
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Old 09-27-2005, 04:56 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Trango,

For a manual, you can use HD NV5600 with PDR (South Bend) clutch, rated to over 550hp & 1000 pound feet of torque coupled to Gear Vendors splitter. This will make 12 speeds and allow engine to stay in its power band. First gear is 5.63:1, as is reverse. Standard overdrive is .73:1 and double OD (GV engaged) is .57:1. The GVU will obviously work with many transmissions. The NV5600 can be built very strong to handle diesel power and weighs about 350 pounds depending on who you to talk to.

You could do the same thing with an NV4500, depending on the power of the 3208, save some weight, add the underdrive and be around the weight of the 5600. 4500 is shorter too and would give 10 speeds. It only weighs about 200 pounds. Auto can be setup the same way. Lots of custom ratios are available for transmissions such as those coming out of fullsized diesel trucks. With the popularity of diesel hot rodding, some beefy trannies are being built. Obviously these are generalisations and I dont know the power on your motor, your budget, bellhousing, etc. Found a ton of Eatons with ODs in the low 70s, nothing new in the 60s, must go back quite a few years to get that and then all the model numbers and such change. Have some notes on this in another computer. Will look around and repost what I find. HTH

Forgot to add this, .64 OD is the best I could do:

http://www.keislerauto.com/gm/transm...evy2_62-67.asp

Found a .50 OD, though i dont know if it would hold diesel torque

http://www.5speedtransmissions.com/

Last edited by 85blue4runner; 09-27-2005 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 09-28-2005, 01:35 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Wow - that's really great info. Those small 5 speeds are definitely too small for what I'm building, but the 5600 might work. I had sort of written off even a 5600 as being too small, but I will only ever be pushing about 700 ft lbs, so that's sweet!

The only compelling thing is that I can probably find an older airshift tranny for less than $1500. At that point, I'll just need to turn the output yoke down and put a rockwell flange on it, so it's pretty bolt on.

Now, here's the hard part. I only have approximately 28" from engine to companion flange...

Man, I think I'm going to just keep thinking about this for a while...

Bob
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Old 09-28-2005, 06:19 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Wow - that's really great info

I'll send you a bill.......

Now, here's the hard part. I only have approximately 28" from engine to companion flange...

That is going to be tough..

good luck
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Old 09-30-2005, 10:47 AM   #23 (permalink)
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STaK Overdrive

At the Offroad Expo in Pamona CA, STaK will be showing off its new Three Speed Transfer Case with Overdrive.
The Gear ratios will be:
1:1 - 0.79:1 - 4.33:1
All other specs on the case are the same as the standard Monster Box we are selling now.
We will also be showing other new products, and models as well.
Please let us know what you think, or call if you have any questions.
Thanks
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Old 09-30-2005, 11:05 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
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At the Offroad Expo in Pamona CA, STaK will be showing off its new Three Speed Transfer Case with Overdrive.
The Gear ratios will be:
1:1 - 0.79:1 - 4.33:1
All other specs on the case are the same as the standard Monster Box we are selling now.
We will also be showing other new products, and models as well.
Please let us know what you think, or call if you have any questions.
Thanks
So, can you use the case like a normal OD? Shift on the fly? If I am flying down the road at 65, can I shift into OD? It's nice to see you guys keeping up with developement and putting out a product people want. I hope it pays dividens for you all.
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Old 10-01-2005, 12:28 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel Smoke
So, can you use the case like a normal OD? Shift on the fly? If I am flying down the road at 65, can I shift into OD? It's nice to see you guys keeping up with developement and putting out a product people want. I hope it pays dividens for you all.
Even if it isn't...is it that big of a deal?
Just leave the t-case in OD whenever you're on the street.
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