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Old 03-18-2006, 08:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Post Tire Repair / Vulcanizing

I have developed a technique to vulcanize/repair bias TSL/Bogger tires of any size. I have fixed sidewall injuries as long as six inches, but I have really specialized in repairs of 3” or less.

Last edited by TireDoctor; 03-26-2006 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Hey, this sounds really cool. I dont need it it right now, but I was just wondering where were you located?
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:21 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Dan does a great job on fixing tires and I can attest to it. He has fixed tires for me for nearly 8 years..If you need a tire fixed he is your man. He will work hard to fix your tire regardless of the size of repair, he is easy to work with, and does it in a timely manner..AND he guarentee's his work!!!! How many people who vulcanize tires will guarentee them? I have never met someone who would other than Dan..
Once again welcome aboard dan...One tip, if you plan to stay around here on the board as a "vendor" you might want to look into getting a yellow star. Glad to see you dropping in! Brian Boyd
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Yep. Yellow star first. Pimp goods second.

Sounds like a good service though. Shell out for that star then pimp to your hearts content over in the vendor section. Or pimp it in this forum if you're giving away freebies
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Old 03-19-2006, 11:51 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Yellow star or what ever, I can tell you that this guy knows his stuff. I cut a 3 " hole in the side wall of my TSL 39.5". I called every tire place and 4 wheel drive shop that I could find or think of for 100 miles around Nashville, even some in Knoxville. Somewhere I found out about this guy and he hooked me up. I could put a coke can through the hole, now it's gone. Everyone else told me a side wall hole of this severity could never be fixed. I highly recommend him. It's been nearly two years without a problem. Pocket change compared to the cost of replacement.

Doc
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Old 03-19-2006, 02:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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If this realy works as good as it sounds like it might be a good idea to come up with a "better" trail fix as well. Something we can carry with us that's better then what is out on the market now.
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Old 03-19-2006, 09:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I have a few ideas that I’ve been experimenting with as I get asked that question a lot. I am working to figure out how to produce something that would be like an emergency “do it yourself” (hot) vulcanizing kit, but I’m not sure if there is anything that would be a quick fix to get you out of the woods. I’ve been dreaming up ways to help if you were away on a weekend ride and cut a tire…or two, and wanted to fix the tire for the next day. The whole repair process takes about 4-5 hours…and there is no getting around it.
The injury has to be completely dry and clean too. The reason the TSL’s are so hard to fix with chemical boots is that the manufacturer uses tons of silicon in the mold when they make the tire…and so nothing will stick to it inside. It is best to tailor-fit the repairs and burn them in for good.
A big challenge is people using fix-a-flat, plugging very bad cuts or other creative field expedient tire repairs… which tend to make the injuries or the repair process much worse. You gotta do what you gotta do though. What would people like in a “trail fix”?

Last edited by TireDoctor; 03-26-2006 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 03-19-2006, 09:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TireDoctor
I would love to get some feedback about what people would like in a “trail fix”.
a big fawkin boot (patch) and a tube has worked for me... i'm still running around on two 42" tsl with hand size holes with that.

I would love to have these tires fixed though!!! I'll take pics of the injuries tomorrow and post em to see what you think.
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Old 03-19-2006, 10:14 PM   #9 (permalink)
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$100 No disrespect here, but I have had local companies(in more than one local) repair several of my ripped sidewalls at $35 a pop. If I had to drop a bill on a repair, I would probably invest in a new tire. Most big truck tire/retreading co.'s have the ability to do a quality, vulcanized patch.
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Old 03-20-2006, 12:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
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maybe..but I think there is your problem..your gunna be hard pressed to find anyone who will fix a largely gashed sidrwall..or even attempt it.

seems like if I had a half worn out tire I would buy a new one..
but since my luck dictates that I would slice it while it was new..I can see dropping 100 to fix it would be fine with me..especcially if this guy ends up keeping his real good reputation..

as long as shipping isn't another 100
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:19 AM   #11 (permalink)
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You mentioned TSL?Bogger but can you do a radial?

I have a pile of sliced BFG Krawlers and a few are practically new. I can't find anyone to touch them
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Old 03-20-2006, 09:29 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdude
You mentioned TSL?Bogger but can you do a radial?

I have a pile of sliced BFG Krawlers and a few are practically new. I can't find anyone to touch them
I've had a few Krawlers done over the years, ran them in comps too, never an issue. Helps to know someone cause of liability concerns, the small mom and pop shops will usually do my manure spreader tires without blinking an eye. The truck shops require a buddy doing it off the clock so to speak.
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Old 03-20-2006, 09:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
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ok... so i got a tire repair for ya!





and here's what it looked like a year and a half ago... this was after running it for almost a year...



what do I win?
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Old 03-20-2006, 09:44 PM   #14 (permalink)
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yellow star!
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Old 03-20-2006, 10:02 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I will do radials if the user promises to keep them strickly off road. Someone mentioned the "L" word (liability)... which is what has scared most of the little guys out of the business and keeps the big section shops from touching anything official over two inches (unless it is "off the clock"). Section repair shops like mine have been sued out of existence for the most part, and I wonder sometimes when I do a job like Danger Ranger has...if it will be the one that wins my shop...home...vehicles...kids...etc.
That's more info than you probably wanted to know... but radials will work pretty well to fix... if the cut is going north-south. East-west cuts of course damage more cords and tend to bulge out badly. The radials would work pretty good in the sand down there...but rocks will eat them up.

Last edited by TireDoctor; 03-26-2006 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 03-20-2006, 10:43 PM   #16 (permalink)
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There are some great section shops out there with old guys that have forgotten more about this stuff than I'll ever know.
If I have one like is in D.R.'s picture... which takes a long time to buff the old boot out and clean out the damage...it has to be one of the 50 suckiest jobs. You remember why Forrest Gump's mother cared so much about his education? "So he wouldn't have to grow up and vulcanize tires."

Last edited by TireDoctor; 03-26-2006 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 03-21-2006, 06:19 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TireDoctor
The radials would work pretty good in the sand down there...but rocks will eat them up.
Here's a little more info on the tire I'm referencing.

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/asset...wler_ta_kx.pdf
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Old 03-21-2006, 04:12 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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D.R.
Sweet! That's a good one. I'd call that a "fister". It looks like a rip is extending out of the big hole up into the shoulder of the tire ...which makes it even more fun, but it could be vulcanized. "The length is not the problem... but the width is what is so hard to work with". Madonna

You did a really good job on the boot to get that to hold for over a year.
Got any rides planned east of the Mississippi?
hey if i didn't have to throw away the two $300+ tires I got... which still have $250 worth of tread on them! I'd be happy

I lost the boot on that tire once, so i re-booted it (non-computer term) and started running a tube with the boot. I think thats the only reason the boot is still hanging on. I don't even know if that tire is repairable... when i first slashed it at the hammers, i drove a mile or more? back to camp on a completely flat tire. When i de-beaded the tire i had a few handfulls of rubber inside. :banginghead:

would love to go wheelin on some east coast stuff... don't know when it'll happen though? probably the day after i win the lottery and retire

here's my other tire... it's a four finger job I seem to have bad luck with blowing rubbers out
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Old 03-21-2006, 09:19 PM   #19 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=bigdude]Here's a little more info on the tire I'm referencing.


That is a good looking tire. I thought they would be more like Mickey Thompsons. I take back the whole rock comment thing... and had to laugh when I saw...

World champion rock crawling performance*.
What it is: Xtreme traction off-road tire that has won more rock crawling championships than any other tire*.
Who it’s for: Rock crawling competitors and hardcore off-roaders.
*In 2004, BFGoodrich® tires won 51 of 54 major rock crawling championships.

Looking at the specks...the sidewalls should be no problem to fix.

Last edited by TireDoctor; 03-26-2006 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 03-21-2006, 09:39 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Thumbs up

[QUOTE=Danger Ranger]hey if i didn't have to throw away the two $300+ tires I got... which still have $250 worth of tread on them! I'd be happy

No need to throw them away. They should work if the rim did not do too much damage.

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Old 03-22-2006, 09:38 AM   #21 (permalink)
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So lets add some tech to this post. What's the repair process? Do you add new reinforcement cords, or just melt some rubber on there?

I have had really good luck with just the big boots on the inside of sidewall cuts. Those boots aren't just rubber they actually have nylon cords in them. I am thinking what you do must have something similar, but still stick better....
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:45 AM   #22 (permalink)
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So lets add some tech to this post. What's the repair process? Do you add new reinforcement cords, or just melt some rubber on there?

I have had really good luck with just the big boots on the inside of sidewall cuts. I'm sure this would work better though.
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Old 03-22-2006, 09:43 PM   #23 (permalink)
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So lets add some tech to this post. What's the repair process? Do you add new reinforcement cords, or just melt some rubber on there?

I have had really good luck with just the big boots on the inside of sidewall cuts. Those boots aren't just rubber they actually have nylon cords in them. I am thinking what you do must have something similar, but still stick better....
Sorry... my geek side now emerges.
I was not sure how specifically “technical” you are looking for, so I apologize upfront if it's too much information.
A lot of the tires that I get in are wet and muddy… so I have to take a lot of time cleaning around the injury and making sure it is dry. The nylon cord acts like a sponge, and if it is wet at all, the water will turn to steam when you cook the tire and really mess up your repair day.
I have to really prep/clean the inside of the tire because the manufacturers use so much silicone when making them to keep the tires from sticking to their molds. Some guys do not worry about cleaning the inside before they buff, but that actually buffs the silicone into the cord, which really makes it difficult again to get anything to stick. I use an encapsulated wire brush to clean around the injury, buffing away from the injury. I buff off all of the inner liner where I'm going to install my patch, all the way down to the cord. This allows for the best adhesion.
I use a low-speed buffer with a Rubber Hog buffing wheel on the outside of the tire around the injury to get it clean.
I usually will use an eagle claw knife to cut out the entire pattern around the cut. Cuts/injuries are like cancer… and if you do not remove all of the damage, then the cut will continue to tear, even under the repair you have made. After I cut around the injury with a knife, I use a high-speed grinder with a carbide cutter to grind out any frayed cord fabric. I will then skive around the injury on the outside to give the rubber sort of like a basin to sit in.
After the injury is completely dressed out and well cleaned, I put in a tailor fitted boot/patch/repair that I make out of roles of nylon cord rubber. Depending on the ply rating of the tire, I will layer the sheets of cord rubber in a 3 layer crisscross pattern (1 sheet/layer = 2 plies). I will cut out the repair, usually in an oval-shape to tailor fit the size of the hole that I'm repairing. I use black vulcanizing cement that is heat cured on both the inside of the tire and my repair. After it is dry, I install my repair boot and stitch it in. I then use black vulcanizing cement on the outside of the tire and allow that to dry. Then I fill the injury with rope rubber that is melted through an extruder gun. I pack and stitch the rubber all around the skive with about 1/8 of an inch protruding out of the hole. This will allow the rubber to flow and flatten out around the injury. I then put the tire in my sidewall mold and clamp it in. These molds were manufactured back in the 1940’s and still do an awesome job. I did rewire them. I have not found that the spotters that are on the market now do as good a job for whatever reason? I cook the tire at about 300° for three hours and then allow about an hour for it to cool off before I pull it out of the mold. When the rubber is cooled down, I buff off all the rubber to make it flush with the tire so that you can see the outline of the skive. On the inside, the repair melts into the cord and becomes permanently affixed/vulcanized to the tire. It should be pretty flush with the inner-liner.
I have seen people try to use chemical boots, and some do a pretty good job… and no doubt many people are running them right now. I have just had very good success with making my own and burning the repairs into the tire. Unless there is an air pocket or some other fluky thing, it works well enough for me to warranty a repair for at least a year, or even for the life of the tire with small cuts. There are about 100 things that can go wrong with the vulcanizing process, and any one of the 100 things can lead to repair failures. Which means I have to take all that out and do it all over.
Brian Boyd calls it “Repair Shop Voodoo”, and that is not too far off.
Sorry to be so verbose… but that is the “technical reply”.

Last edited by TireDoctor; 03-22-2006 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 03-23-2006, 07:53 AM   #24 (permalink)
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you have any pictures of the rubber nylon cords and such that you use in the repair process?? pretty interesting stuff
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:59 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Thanks, that was exactly what I was looking for. That sounds like a lot of work and a dirty job for only $100.
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