TJ roll cages... a debate - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > General Tech > General 4x4 Discussion
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-09-2002, 09:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4878
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 6,224
Send a message via ICQ to Travis Waldher Send a message via MSN to Travis Waldher Send a message via Yahoo to Travis Waldher
TJ roll cages... a debate

ok.. I've got a friend with a TJ. She is interested in adding the front hoop to her stock cage. So here is the debate...

1) The strength of a through the dash cage that bolts to the side of the body? Kinda like this one: http://www.rockhard4x4parts.com/

2) In reference to the above website... all of their spreader bars bolt on with a clamp around the cage.

soo... I don't know the answer.. I don't have the experience. My gut feeling tells me.. nothing beats a regular 6 point cage. (e.g. not the through the dash, bolt to the firewall variety)

Also #2, I question the strength of the bolt together method. I don't see how that clamp could be as strong as a weld. (or stronger for that matter)

what do you guys think?

Right now I am telling her a front hoop that goes down in front of the dash is probably the best idea. with 2-4 spreader bars to start with. if she wants more, it can be added to the cage later or at the same time. but all weld on.
Travis Waldher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2002, 09:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 5791
Location: Anchorage AK/Waco, TX
Posts: 111
Send a message via AIM to AKJeepGirl2
I have a TJ and I am looking for a good role cage system as well, I have looked into the roll cage that you mentioned, and it seems to be a good system to me if you get the model that attaches to the frame. I would say that any role cage should attach to the frame or I won't be happy... I am interested to see what anyone else thinks...Is anyone running one of those?
AKJeepGirl2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 04-09-2002, 09:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4878
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 6,224
Send a message via ICQ to Travis Waldher Send a message via MSN to Travis Waldher Send a message via Yahoo to Travis Waldher
Well... 2 things....

1) the bottom half of the leg kit they sell... looks like it uses flat bar or similar to bolt the two halves together. Don't know why.. but that kind of bothers me.

2) bolt to the frame. I look at it like this. You have 2 basic kinds of rolls in a regular trail rig. the standard flop, etc. a cage bolted to the body with maybe a peice of steel plate on the bottom side of the body to sandwhich the body where the cage mounts is pretty strong. I have seen a couple high speed rolls with cages attached in this fashion... and each time.. the rig drove away fine.. body damage yes.. but the cage didn't tear away from the body. (high speed meaning 35-50mph roll)

The second type of roll... the 200 foot multi roll none of us ever want. In this case... I would rather have a full cage that my seats and 5point harness bolts too. and NOT bolted to teh frame. theory is... as I go down teh ravine... my jeep disinigrates but the cage and me hold up (ok.. no matter what.. I'm gonna be screwed up personally after that, but hopefully alive). so as I am falling the mass around me gets smaller. The less mass going down the hill side with me... the less of an impact it will be to me in the rig.

(Travis puts on flame suit for #2)
Travis Waldher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2002, 10:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Member # 7482
Location: Farmington,NM
Posts: 1,735
TJ cage

The best cage is a welded cage. The bolt on kits are for the average person that dosn't have a welder or chopsaw at home. It's a great idea for the money. My shop welds everything and we go through the dash. I have seen some of the kits that go in front of the dash and they get in the way. We usually add to the factory cage. Two down bars thru dash ( you will lose the heater/AC vents) One bar straight across from side to side and as many spreader bars as you like. It's easy and fairly affordable. Going to the frame is always better than plates but each person wheels diffrent and most won't need to go to the frame.
pure-adrenaline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2002, 10:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Member # 1918
Location: ironcity
Posts: 2,478
Send a message via AIM to badassjeepguy Send a message via Yahoo to badassjeepguy
Re: TJ cage

Quote:
Originally posted by pure-adrenaline
The best cage is a welded cage. The bolt on kits are for the average person that dosn't have a welder or chopsaw at home. It's a great idea for the money. My shop welds everything and we go through the dash. I have seen some of the kits that go in front of the dash and they get in the way. We usually add to the factory cage. Two down bars thru dash ( you will lose the heater/AC vents) One bar straight across from side to side and as many spreader bars as you like. It's easy and fairly affordable. Going to the frame is always better than plates but each person wheels diffrent and most won't need to go to the frame.
i agree but one thing..... i did not loose my vents, if properly placed you CAN keep em
__________________
Hot Pursuit Rockcrawling #911
[SIZE="7"][COLOR="Yellow"]2006 BADLANDS MOONBUGGY FOR SALE[/COLOR][/SIZE] [url]http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=566987[/url]
badassjeepguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2002, 10:21 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 5791
Location: Anchorage AK/Waco, TX
Posts: 111
Send a message via AIM to AKJeepGirl2
Isn't it possible to weld the bolt on roll cage to the frame? If not, where is the cheapest place to buy a cage that can be welded to the frame?
AKJeepGirl2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2002, 10:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Member # 792
Location: El Dorado County CA
Posts: 1,211
I've seen 3 styles of front hoops

1) in front of the dash like hanson's www.hansonenterprise.com



2) through the dash like tennesseeoffroad



3) bolts to the side of the like OR fab's.




These are just examples and I think each styles has several vendors, along with the custom shops like roggy enterprises that should be able to do whatever you want.

my take is through the dash and in front of the dash to the floor would be equally strong and if tied into the frame would again be equally as strong.

style 3 seems like it should be weaker, but if tied into the floor and then to the frame? that part of TJ tub is reinforced alot. I still think it would be weaker than the others.

Other things I've noticed.

- footwell space
- entry exit ease
- vision

I think style 3 wins for footwell space and for entry exit ease. As far as vision, thats my one complaint of the through the dash styles is they block abit of your forward vision for normal driving. I think the in front of the dash does good in this regard.

So, I'm looking at this too, and need to get on it. I haven't decided which way to go.

- Dan
__________________
01 TJ
Dan-H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2002, 10:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4878
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 6,224
Send a message via ICQ to Travis Waldher Send a message via MSN to Travis Waldher Send a message via Yahoo to Travis Waldher
Quote:
Originally posted by AKJeepGirl
Isn't it possible to weld the bolt on roll cage to the frame? If not, where is the cheapest place to buy a cage that can be welded to the frame?
IMO... you DONT want your cage welded to the frame. if your set on that.. the best way is to weld an out rigger on tot he frame and bolt the cage through a bushing and body (similar to a body mount) to the outrigger.
Travis Waldher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2002, 11:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
CHOKEu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Member # 7954
Location: SHIPPENSBURG, PA
Posts: 684
Send a message via AIM to CHOKEu
I could not make up my mind. So, I stole an idea from the RR Defender 90. I just built a front exo, so it now protects my windshield and ties into the inside cage. And no, I never put my top down, I only bought a soft-top because they look better ! I could care less about putting it down, but if I wanted to it would take about 10 minutes to unbolt the cage. I will add more to it later, I'm definently not done yet.
Attached Images
 
__________________
aka CHOKE

TJ-60's-ATLAS-37's-104" wb- Full Hydro-Turtle Wax
Vertical- up seperates the "Welders" from the Rodburners"; welding out of position, in restriction, on pipe, with a mirror, seperates "YOU" from the "Welders"!

MY JUNK- [url]http://community.webshots.com/user/nicrfe[/url]
CHOKEu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2002, 05:37 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Member # 3659
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 291
Send a message via AIM to Hoyden
I recently put in a through the dash cage from TOR. I didn't lose any usable foot space and the visibilty loss was minimal - and counteredthe minimal loss by the fact that I will generally wheel without the windshield on hard trails now. I had to put in flexible vent tubing, but got to keep my dash vents. I looked at all of the options and this seemed to be the best combo of price/function.
__________________
Jackie Cooper
Hoyden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2002, 07:26 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Member # 8228
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,231
Send a message via AIM to broncorob
Does that 3rd pic have a cage that bolts to the plastic dash

How about Gossamer's cage:


With the size of that rig and the bends at teh bottom and the front points bolted to the body....
Seems like a decent roll would squish it
__________________
Rob Ellis
broncorob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2002, 07:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6772
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 301
Broncorob, the third picture you are refering to does not bolt to the plactic dash. It bolts to the firewall, which seems to be the strongest part on a TJ.
__________________
sometimes I rub it so hard a genie pops out
onsafari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2002, 08:01 AM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Member # 1197
Location: Virginia
Posts: 479
Having rolled my TJ twice on a piece of junk, 'custom' .090 wall thru the dash cage, I can tell you for certain that the most important aspect is the materials. In both rolls, the factory .120 wall main hoop did fine, but the .090 junk that was installed 'custom' bent and failed.

I now have a completely custom, .120 wall cage designed and installed by a desert racer. Every tube is gussetted and triangulated. I think the jeep will fail before this cage will.

My point? Materials matter and the piece of mind afforded by a 'custom' cage can be a lie. If you're spending money for your safety, a bolt in cage is, in my opinion, not worth its cost in a barrell roll. Spend a few dollars more and get the real thing.

Seth



Funkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2002, 08:08 AM   #14 (permalink)
DRM
Super Moderator
 
DRM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Member # 8
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Posts: 19,716
Blog Entries: 1
Essentially Off Road her ein TN has been doing through-the-dash TJ cages longer than just about anyone else I know of....

Check out some of the work they do, looks good to me

http://www.essentiallyoffroad.com/Cages%20TJ.htm
__________________
>David
> 4x4Spot.com
>It only hurts the first time you agree with me...
>"A little nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men."
DRM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2002, 08:30 AM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Member # 2071
Location: Helena, MT USA
Posts: 4,605
Send a message via AIM to tsm1mt
Quote:
Originally posted by AKJeepGirl
I would say that any role cage should attach to the frame or I won't be happy... I am interested to see what anyone else thinks...Is anyone running one of those?
I'm with Travis.

My cage bolts to the body, but my racing seats and 5pt harness are attached to the 'cage.

If the 'cage comes loose, I'm still inside of it (well, there are those legs...)

I made the decision to bolt my 'cage in after the mess I made cutting it out of the donor rig (welded to the frame).. what a mess.



(See the triangular frame-side body mounting location - the one with the big hole cut in it where the 'cage used to be?)
__________________
-Tom
KE7VUX

Last edited by tsm1mt; 04-10-2002 at 08:34 AM.
tsm1mt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2002, 09:00 AM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Member # 4001
Location: Citrus Heights, CA
Posts: 3,499
For those of you with a TennOR or Essentially OR cage (Through Dash) What is so secret about their vent relocations stuff that they won't tell you about? I'm supposed to build a cage for a TJ guy this summer and he could get any one to sell him just the vent part or explain WTF it was...Is there a way to do it our selves?
__________________
Dysfunctional Rockcrawlers
Scout Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2002, 09:20 AM   #17 (permalink)
DRM
Super Moderator
 
DRM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Member # 8
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Posts: 19,716
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally posted by Scout Dude
For those of you with a TennOR or Essentially OR cage (Through Dash) What is so secret about their vent relocations stuff that they won't tell you about? I'm supposed to build a cage for a TJ guy this summer and he could get any one to sell him just the vent part or explain WTF it was...Is there a way to do it our selves?
Well, you have to understand that when a company comes up with somethign to sell - telling everyone how to do it on their own would be shooting themselves in the foot, now wouldn't it

I was at EOR the night they were doing the very first through the dash cage, and was ehlping figure out how to make the dash and vent stuff work...

But you can do it yourself - and if you can handle building a cage and installing it, just a few minutes with the dash off and looking at what is behind there you should be able to make afew trips to the auto parts store or Home Depot and get what you need to fix it right up
__________________
>David
> 4x4Spot.com
>It only hurts the first time you agree with me...
>"A little nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men."
DRM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2002, 09:28 AM   #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Member # 4001
Location: Citrus Heights, CA
Posts: 3,499
Quote:
Originally posted by DRM


Well, you have to understand that when a company comes up with somethign to sell - telling everyone how to do it on their own would be shooting themselves in the foot, now wouldn't it

I was at EOR the night they were doing the very first through the dash cage, and was ehlping figure out how to make the dash and vent stuff work...

But you can do it yourself - and if you can handle building a cage and installing it, just a few minutes with the dash off and looking at what is behind there you should be able to make afew trips to the auto parts store or Home Depot and get what you need to fix it right up
Cool, the way that they made it sound (According to my buddy) was that they included new vents that attach to the dash, not new flexible hose or something...we'll get it figured out...thx
__________________
Dysfunctional Rockcrawlers
Scout Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2002, 11:50 AM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Member # 9115
Location: Canadian Rockies
Posts: 42
i also ran the cage through the dash and threw out all the venting shit. The end result allows me to still drop the windshield (as the $10 snorkel is not in the way ) and living in Canada with a soft top year round, the missing vents still defrost and heat the inside real good. In my small newbie opinion, i would not lose sleep over the venting loss.
__________________
rubi with a few mods
spinalguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2002, 11:56 AM   #20 (permalink)
DRM
Super Moderator
 
DRM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Member # 8
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Posts: 19,716
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally posted by Scout Dude


Cool, the way that they made it sound (According to my buddy) was that they included new vents that attach to the dash, not new flexible hose or something...we'll get it figured out...thx
Let's just say that with a little work and ingenuity - you can re-route the vents to work just fine

But heck - EOR's cage price is real resonable, considering they have it all figured out for you and it comes with the cage
__________________
>David
> 4x4Spot.com
>It only hurts the first time you agree with me...
>"A little nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men."
DRM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2002, 12:12 PM   #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Member # 4099
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 818
Send a message via AIM to JEEP_TJ_FREAK Send a message via Yahoo to JEEP_TJ_FREAK
Quote:
Originally posted by spinalguy
The end result allows me to still drop the windshield (as the $10 snorkel is not in the way )



How do you open your hood?

Last edited by JEEP_TJ_FREAK; 04-10-2002 at 12:20 PM.
JEEP_TJ_FREAK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2002, 12:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 5696
Location: carnation wa
Posts: 140
Re: TJ roll cages... a debate

Quote:
Originally posted by twaldher
ok.. I've got a friend with a TJ. She is interested in adding the front hoop to her stock cage. So here is the debate...

1) The strength of a through the dash cage that bolts to the side of the body? Kinda like this one: http://www.rockhard4x4parts.com/

2) In reference to the above website... all of their spreader bars bolt on with a clamp around the cage.

soo... I don't know the answer.. I don't have the experience. My gut feeling tells me.. nothing beats a regular 6 point cage. (e.g. not the through the dash, bolt to the firewall variety)

Also #2, I question the strength of the bolt together method. I don't see how that clamp could be as strong as a weld. (or stronger for that matter)

what do you guys think?

Right now I am telling her a front hoop that goes down in front of the dash is probably the best idea. with 2-4 spreader bars to start with. if she wants more, it can be added to the cage later or at the same time. but all weld on.
Hey Travis, if your friend is in the Seattle area she should check out what our buddies up north did with my cage...better than any bolt-in or weld-in kit available (in my unhumble opinion)
__________________
Does this anti-squat make my ass look fat?
333J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2002, 02:19 PM   #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Member # 9115
Location: Canadian Rockies
Posts: 42
Quote:
How do you open your hood?
TJ FREAK...The 90 deg ABS pipe just slides off and than the hood opens (of course the windshield is back up )
__________________
rubi with a few mods
spinalguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2002, 02:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4878
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 6,224
Send a message via ICQ to Travis Waldher Send a message via MSN to Travis Waldher Send a message via Yahoo to Travis Waldher
Re: Re: TJ roll cages... a debate

Quote:
Originally posted by 333J


Hey Travis, if your friend is in the Seattle area she should check out what our buddies up north did with my cage...better than any bolt-in or weld-in kit available (in my unhumble opinion)
I was going to get a hold of them.......... My only concern for her.... well.. those guys have a hard time stopping once you get the started bending tube. LOL I mean.. next thing you know.. the coilovers are sticking through your hood.
Travis Waldher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2002, 03:13 PM   #25 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Member # 498
Location: San Jose Ca
Posts: 1,871
Send a message via ICQ to WheelingPiazza Send a message via AIM to WheelingPiazza
Quote:
Originally posted by CHOKEu
I could not make up my mind. So, I stole an idea from the RR Defender 90. I just built a front exo, so it now protects my windshield and ties into the inside cage. And no, I never put my top down, I only bought a soft-top because they look better ! I could care less about putting it down, but if I wanted to it would take about 10 minutes to unbolt the cage. I will add more to it later, I'm definently not done yet.

I see you got your long arm on...

Sorry I missed ya on sunday you bastard.
__________________
KI6PZZ, One of the wheelingpiazzas.
Dysfunctional Rockcrawlers (TDO)
WheelingPiazza is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.