Raggedy Red revival

[hkunz93308]

I finally got the axle in place with all the mounts welded on. The Currie axle came with High Steer arms already on the knuckles, so I figured i was good to go on steering, all I had to do was measure and order the right sized Chromo tubing and ends. Although I'll miss Tinbenders event at JV, I might even make the following weekend Oops. Reality struck. I now remember why I didn't do a High Steer last time I put this all together.

Here is a view through where the tie rod would have to go with High Steer. Note the steering box, the pitman arm, and the fact that there is about 6 inches of up travel left on the shock.



Here is where the old drag link hits the passenger side steering arm. I ran it under the steering arm before, so the drag link would clear the frame. I may have to do the same again, although it adds to the complexity of the geometry. I actually bent the steering arm (on purpose, with lots of heat) with the Dana 44 build.


Here is a gratuitous picture of all the real estate I have to mount something to the front of the housing. I could avoid all this by jacking the front sky high, but I am trying to keep it fairly low.



This may all come down to price. I can get the whole Ballistic Fabrication steering kit welded up, the right length, for $330. Drill some holes, bolt it in, and be done with it. The PSC kit is $1375. Then I have to completely learn a new system.

I can do it myself for $60 less by doing my own welding on the Ballistic kit, but when it comes to welding chrome molly on steering, I kind of prefer pros do it.......

Then again, I now have 39" tires versus the old 37". And a 609 axle, which is probably not gonna break. A thousand dollars more, after i already spent waaaay too much on this "repair".

Just
Empty
Every
Pocket

[hkunz93308]

Got the axles in. Took all day. The left axle has markings "Superior Axle". I thought it was bottoming out in the Detroit, similar to the problem I had in the rear. I did the whole Prussian Blue thing, and found no interference, so I took the whole thing apart and tried each component. 20/20 hindsight, I found the marks inside the knuckle from the axle shaft hitting the inside. It was the ears on the axle yoke, so I had to grind down the outer edge with a flapper disc, then polish out the marks with a flapper wheel. I snuck up on it, and got it finally finished after several tries.



Here you can see the marks from trying to get the Prussian Blue to mark on the inside of the axle. I had to polish out the inside with the flapper wheel in the drill. I was surprised to see how soft the metal was that I could dent it that easily.



I had to safety wire the hat to the rotor. That took hours, since I broke the wire several times by trying to get it too tight. I haven't safety wired anything since I was first in the Navy, so there was a learning curve.

[hkunz93308]

I've been looking at various steering options, including full hydraulic systems. I went over to Goatman's place today and looked at his buggy (7th in KOH 2008) and he's running an inverted "Y" with assist. Mine was a crossover, with the tie rod low and the drag link high; assist was on the tie rod, which meant it got hit on rocks a lot.

I took a bunch of pics of his buggy, which I did copy for a lot of my build. His new setup has the ram on the back of the passenger side, so it is well protected.

I was going to upload the pics, but it is late and I'm still learning this Mac.

[97tjkrawler]

WTF are you doing!!!!! This project looks like something a fawking 10 year old welding with a stick of bubble gum and a shoe lace came up with!!! Do you have any concern for your safety? I definetly understand that not everyone has the nicest or latest and greatest tools available to them, but holy shit man come the fawk on. The pile of scrap metal that you call upper link mounts and that you took a hundred pictures of should be cut off and used for a boat anchor. The long pretty beads that you speak of are not even almost remotely sexy. I have a blind friend that could see the lack of penetration and form in any welds on this project. If you have ever looked at any of the builds on pirate 4x4 than you would understand where I come from. you should be banned from using tools all together. (yes not even a flat head screwdriver)

[red bone]

I don't know about anyone else but am I the only one that sees anything wrong with this rig? You motherfuckers that are giving him props for this shit box build need to either look a little closer or grow a set of balls and tell it like it is! If you have any concern about safety you would not be doing your own welding for starters. What about your 1/16" plate for your tube fenders? You might just have well put some stock shit back on there. Have you ever considered letting someone else(with experience) give you a hand? Friends with knowledge that are willing to help don't cost too much and your rig would be atleast safe to drive on a trail. The link set up looks like a 3 year old designed it on CAEAS(computer aided etch-a-sketch). I just had to get that off of my chest cuz I am just worried about the sefety of all the other wheelers that may be close(1000 meter radius) to you if and when this gets finished.: grinpimp:

[hkunz93308]

I guess neither of you were any of the hundreds of folks who've been on runs I've led in the 2 and a half years since the Jeep was back on the road, the Hammers, Calico, Ord Mountains, Death and Panamint Valleys, and aired out at Pismo. I probably didn't rescue you from Superstition Mountain, either. Probably didn't search for the four link calculator I used to design it, either, since you need a red star to search Pirate. Probably also missed where I copied successfully built KOH racer designs that prototyped the theoretical from the calculator. Maybe you missed the part where it was built at an agricultural welding shop, where heavier gauge materials are used, and the part where the brackets came from Poly Performance. You probably also missed the shot of the back side of the pumpkins where the beads show through the base metal.

Once you graduate and get bored with mall wheeling, come on out to the California desert. I'll show you some real wheeling.

Or, this was Russ. If so, how's the leaf spring rear working on the TJ?

[hkunz93308]

After I first assembled the axle ends I had a number of parts left over. I called Currie and asked about the parts while sitting in front of the axle stub end so I could look at it while talking to them. They were quite helpful and talked me through it, but I still didn't get a full understanding of what they were thinking the assembly was going to look like.

I had a lot of parts, and some were very similar in size, but slightly different in design. Here are the total parts for one side. There are two large galvanized washers, a plastic seal/washer similar to that on a Dana 44 axle end seal, a large spiral lock ring that holds the final assembly in place, and three 1.5" rings, one an external snap ring, one an external "E" snap ring, and one a spiral lock ring. The last two were in the Warn hub box, the rest in the Ziploc bag that Curie supplied.



I understood Currie to say that the plastic seal/washer went on the end of the axle, even though there was a huge washer/seal/bearing assembly on the axle end when I picked it up from Currie. Here is the plastic seal, and the other inside on the axle end.



It's kinda hard to see, but the caliper is set at the distance from the knuckle face to the seal.



Here the caliper is measuring the depth of the unit bearing face to the inner end. Both these measurements very close to the the same.


And here is another of my trademark out-of-focus pictures, but you can see that the thickness of the plastic seal is way more than will fit between the axle end and the unit bearing inner surface.

[hkunz93308]

The three snap rings, all of similar size. I finally decided to use the one that looked like it would be easiest to remove for servicing.

The Warn instructions talk about using one snap ring on the end of the axle, but there is no groove in my axle for a snap ring. I doubt it is going anywhere anyway.


The inside of the 450 bearing housing with the following parts installed, in order - plastic seal/washer, two galvanized washers, and the external snap ring. I did not use the other two 1.5" rings. Everything turns freely at this point.



I put the hub in, and it wouldn't go. I cleaned up the splines on both the Warn hub and the Currie axle, still no go. I used a little anti-seize, and some mild persuasion with a rawhide mallet, and it started to go in. I didn't like using the hammer, so I stopped and took it out. The hub came apart, with the inner snap ring popping off. I was able to remove the brass inner ring rather easily with a pair of 20-amp screwdrivers. Amazingly, there were no burr marks or scuffs on either the hub or axle. I got the hub back together and it went right in, although a bit stiffer than the other side. Dunno.

[hkunz93308]

No need for a custom "short hub kit", the Currie/Warn hub kit is well protected.



Finally got the front wheels on. The rear is pretty much behind the front. Without a tie rod, the tires won't stay put.



Assembled axle, passenger side rear aspect.



Close-up of the polishing I had to do to get the axle yoke in past the knuckle center. Driver side front aspect.

[hkunz93308]

My Poly Performance parts shipment came in, now for the steering setup

[hkunz93308]

Finally got to working on the steering. Some delay due to buying a new 3/4" drill bit, a new outer shield for the welder, and the bolts for the rod ends, but i did get started. I hoped to get it done today, but it was not to be.

Here is the Currie upper steering arm after I drilled it for the two 3/4" holes.



Here is the bottom of the arm with the machined in keyway to prevent movement.



The knuckle machining to hold the arm.



New drag link with old one. The new is only 2" longer, but it does upsize to 7/8"



The drag link is in and aligned, at least to the point that I can build the tie rod and ram mounts.

[supersize75k5]

Originally Posted by 97tjkrawler

WTF are you doing!!!!! This project looks like something a fawking 10 year old welding with a stick of bubble gum and a shoe lace came up with!!! Do you have any concern for your safety? I definetly understand that not everyone has the nicest or latest and greatest tools available to them, but holy shit man come the fawk on. The pile of scrap metal that you call upper link mounts and that you took a hundred pictures of should be cut off and used for a boat anchor. The long pretty beads that you speak of are not even almost remotely sexy. I have a blind friend that could see the lack of penetration and form in any welds on this project. If you have ever looked at any of the builds on pirate 4x4 than you would understand where I come from. you should be banned from using tools all together. (yes not even a flat head screwdriver)

You truly are the village idiot arn't you? Post some pics of your build and your sweet shop and tool set up Looks like your also the same person who posted right after you ran your mouth the first time. Classy

[hkunz93308]

Domo arigato K5
And here I thought I was the only one....

Back to buildup stuff.

The tie rod. I beveled the outside to half the thickness, but as it turns out, this might have been a mistake.



An out-of-focus shot of the beveled and drilled end of the chrome molly tie rod. Both the bevel and drilled hole are for welding.



End assembled and ready for welding.


I burned the ends in so well that the welds impinged on the threads, a condition I did not realize at first.
I heated the ends of the tubing red hot with my acetylene torch, then welded the plugs and ends. I let them cool for about 45 minutes so I could hold the tie rod with leather welding gloves, then ground around the weld. I then let it cool again until I could touch it with my hands, and started both the tie rod ends. I slipped the ends into the knuckles, and started the final alignment. The left one hit a snag, so I hit it with a little penetrating oil and kept going for a bit, maybe a quarter turn. It got caught, and I couldn't back it out. I soaked it in penetrant and waited half hour. I finally called Goatman and after talking with him decided to go ahead and back it out with a pipe wrench and my big guns

I put a cheater on the pipe wrench, and it started to turn fairly easily. I kept at it, until I broke the 7/8" tie rod threads right off the body of the one-ton Chevy tie rod. OK, I grew up on a farm and have broken stuff before, but this is the biggest thing ever that I've broken with my hands.

Luckily, I made the tie rod extra long, so I cut off the welded-in insert just shy of the rosette welds, losing roughly 3/4" in total length, and 3/8" in thread engagement per side. Since the threads spec at 3.5" and I was going to use 3" of those 3.5", I figure I'll still be OK, even if I lose 1/2" per side. That will give me 2" thread engagement on a 7/8" thread. Even NHRA doesn't spec more than that in classes that go less than 200 MPH. Now I just gotta hope Poly has the parts on the shelf - my event is this coming weekend, and these are the left hand threads......

The right end of the part is the broken off end here. The nut is stuck as well. Notice how I bent the shaft before it broke. There was no sign of partial damage before the twisting break. Just remember this before you challenge me to an arm wrestling contest

[hkunz93308]

Here is the set of two, once was one, tie rod end parts. This is 7/8"! Just broke it clean off with a small pipe wrench. The jam nut was not tight on the end of the threads, in case anyone thought that was a contributing factor.

[hkunz93308]

I guessed wrong on the assembly order for the hub ends. I called Currie and they were very helpful in getting me all squared away. The correct order is axle, unit bearing, then grease one of the thick galvanized washers, then the plastic washer (that isn't a seal), then the other thick metal washer. Grease each part before assembly, then do the snap ring.

I couldn't get the locking hub assembly off on the passenger side, and it finally fell apart. I then had to jimmy the inner brass part off the axle. The Warn hub seems to be a smidgen too tight on the 35 spline axle.

After I got it out, I then had to reassemble the Warn hub. All in a long day of playing with the Jeep.

[hkunz93308]

Steering ram mounts tacked in place.



Rear end plumbed and bled.



Front end plumbed and bled. Nice new braided stainless lines



Driveshaft installed. I had to take the skid plate off. Not really a field repair operation, I may have to figure out how to replace the front driveshaft with the skid plate in place.



Front diff painted all pretty.

[hkunz93308]

Last step - I put the new stickers on the hood



Never mind that I still don't have steering - that will hopefully be taken care of by either Bunk or Poly Performance today.

[hkunz93308]

Finally got it running. The Poly parts came in, I burned in the end, set up the tie rod, built and burned in the tabs for the ram, and tested it.

This time I put anti-seize on the threads of the tie rod before I burned it in. I tried two different sets of tabs, finally chose one that I put two extra washers in for clearance to the ram shaft, then tacked it on.

Oh lookee, a stack of dimes I was going to show the Popsicle sticks and epoxy that a "real man" like red bone would build steering with, but decided not to......

The tabs on the floor will become the ram end.



The tabs on the tie rod are seriously tacked top and bottom. This is enough for the show this weekend. I'll tear it all down again afterward. Not like I have to drive it more than a few feet



The Jeep moved out of the garage under its own power for this shot. The ram is bled, as are the brakes.... Heehaw! Ram is well hidden behind the tie rod. There is more alignment to come, the tires scrub a little, and the steering wheel isn't straight.

[hkunz93308]

I drove around town this weekend, it doesn't go straight. There is a lot of wandering, so I need to realign the front end. I may just have the front tires too straight; not enough toe-in.

[reddwarf]

I have enjoyed this thread. I like what you're doing although your welds do look like poop salad.

Ever thought about investing in a welding course at the local CC or something? Or maybe your welder just isnt set up right, maybe an experienced welder should check it out.

Seriously, not trying to flame. Keep up the good work

[hkunz93308]

Yeah, I've looked into it, then don't follow through. Mostly the bad looking welds are laziness - didn't clean the underlying metal as well as I could have, etc. The I have to grind the whole thing out and do it over, so it ends up not so pretty. I did do most of this at a welding shop, so (this isn't an excuse, just what happened) when I got my turn with the welder, I forgot to turn the settings back to my set-up. I'd burn a little, then have to reset and fix it. I also didn't get my spacing right on things like joints between the tube and the frame, so had to do multiple passes, again not so pretty.

I compensate by using heavier metals and turning up the welder. It weighs more, but it holds.

[reddwarf]

Well as long as it's safe and you're happy w/it then that's all that matters

You hit on the biggest thing though, that's metal prep. A few minutes of prep goes a long way towards nicer-looking more uniform welds.

[hkunz93308]

Yeah, getting the original 76 frame clean enough to weld on was a pain. I'd think I had it, start to weld, and it would go porous on me. I'd have to grind it out and try again. Even if you fix it properly, it never looks as good as if you had fresh metal to begin with. 20-20 hindsight, I'd use the original frame for a template instead of a base (the original '76 frame is inside the 3/16" plate that the real frame is made of). Then I could just make it the way I wanted, and use the measurements from the frame to transfer over. No cutting off tons of extra tabs that I didn't want, etc.

[hkunz93308]

Here's some stacked dimes. This is actually four different welds and two tacks, but laid level and accessible. Still have a little trouble seeing the end of the previously laid weld while doing a second weld next to it. You can see this on the right 1/3 of the weld. I went over the previous weld, which makes the whole thing ugly. I can grind it out to make it pretty, but why? It'll hold.



Painted and ready to test drive (again). I took off one end and turned that tie rod end to give me an "in between" location for length. What I had before was too much toe out, and one turn of the tie rod (because of the ram mount) was too much toe in. So, I took the passenger side off and turned it out one turn (it was the shortest), then put it all back together. After the paint dries I'll test drive again.

[hkunz93308]

I haven't been working on the Jeep recently; I got a new gig for all of last week and the rest of this week - shooting a major motion picture in Lake Havasu with these gals, here with me in my boat.



The movie is Piranha in 3D, and it comes out March 19, 2010.