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Old 05-31-2007, 06:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Axle Splines?

I was wondering if all axle splines were interchangeble. Like a 30 spline 14bff axle shaft and a Ford 9" carrier with 30 spline side gears? Is there a difference in splines at all? The number just determines the axle diameter right? Theres no different amounts of spacing or anything like that right? Thanks all.
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Old 05-31-2007, 06:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
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First, there's no such thing as a 30 spline Ford 9". 28, 31, 33, 35, 40, but no 30.

Second, no, even among same-count axles, there's differences.

30 spline 14-bolt uses a particular spline pitch, not common to other shafts. A 30 spline 14-bolt is very close to the same diameter as a 37 spline Dana.

30 spline Toyota doesn't interchange with 30 spline Dana (44 or 60) even though they're very close to the same diameter. Different pressure angles between the two.

A 35 spline 9" does interchange with a 35 spline Dana.

30 spline 10-bolt interchanges with 30-spline Dana.

But in general, there are different pitches, different pressure angles, different specs, so interchange is far from "count splines and stick it in there".
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I just subscribed to this thread until I memorize all of that.
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Read this, section 3, just over half-way down:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...0/index1b.html
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott@Rockstomper View Post
A 35 spline 9" does interchange with a 35 spline Dana.
There is an exception to that. Mark Williams make 45 degree 35 spline 9" axles and spools. If you're not familiar with thier products you should check them out. They sell some kick ass stuff.

www.markwilliams.com
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:21 PM   #6 (permalink)
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There is an exception to that. Mark Williams make 45 degree 35 spline 9" axles and spools. If you're not familiar with thier products you should check them out. They sell some kick ass stuff.

www.markwilliams.com
True (on all counts). I didn't go into the MW stuff because I didn't think very many of us rockcrawlers run it (it's $$$ dragrace stuff, typically) but yeah, the special MW spline 9" doesn't interchange with anything else. AFAIK, the only "diff" you can get in that flavor is their spool, as well.

Last edited by Scott@Rockstomper; 05-31-2007 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
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scott,

what is the diameter of
dana 35-spline
corp 14 30 spline
and
dana 37-spline?

i thought the 14 and dana 35 were close, but would like to know more exact numbers

thanks hombre
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Old 05-31-2007, 08:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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scott,

what is the diameter of
dana 35-spline
corp 14 30 spline
and
dana 37-spline?

i thought the 14 and dana 35 were close, but would like to know more exact numbers

thanks hombre
Fred,

If you read the spline section in my article you will be able to easily calculate any of these.
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Old 05-31-2007, 08:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Why do I spoil you so?

Diametrical Pitch

Diametrical pitch of splined shaft is a specification that relates the number of splines to the size of the shaft. This spec is what allows us to refer to an axle as just "35 spline" and be able to compare it to a "30 spline" axle without having to also list the minor and major diameters of the shafts. For example, almost anyone would instinctively tell you that a 35 spline shaft was stronger than a 30 spline shaft. But what if the 35 spline shaft had a minor diameter of 1 inch and the 30 spline shaft had a minor diameter of 2 inches? I can tell you without doing the engineering math that the 30 spline 2' shaft would be stronger. To avoid this confusion, and indeed to insure that the number of splines and the size of the shaft are standardized so that the teeth are evenly spaced and parts can be made to fit together, we have the concept of diametrical pitch. We are familiar with the fact that there are a limited, set number of standard threads-per-inch available that match certain bolt sizes (e.g. a 3/8" bolt has either 16 (coarse) or 24 (fine) threads per inch) so that we may have a reasonable chance of finding nuts and bolts that fit together - can you imagine if the number of different threads per inch for any size bolt were unlmited?!! In the same way, splined shafts must have a limited number of possible diameter and # of teeth combinations. Instead of threads-per-inch, diametrical pitch is used.

The pitch diameter of a splined shaft is is the mid-point between the major and minor diameters. The diametrical pitch is the number of teeth per inch of pitch diameter, similar to the number of threads per inch specified for bolt threads. Because the splines are all the same size and shape, the distance between the centerline of adjacent splines (the circular pitch) remains constant. Therefore as the pitch diameter of the shaft increases, more teeth can "fit around" the pitch diameter, and therefore the larger the shaft diameter the larger the number of splines for any given diametrical pitch.

An actual diametrical pitch specification will be a number specifying the number of teeth per inch of pitch diameter. Industry standards state that most modern automotive axle shafts (All of the 28, 30, 31, 35, 40 spline axles that interest us) are 24-pitch. Therefore, if the shaft had a 1-inch circular pitch diameter it would have exactly 24 splines (or teeth). Using this standard diametrical pitch of 24-pitch a 35-spline axle has a major diameter of 1,500 inches; a 40-spline 1.708 inches.

Note that if you know the diametrical pitch of a splined shaft you can calculate its major diameter. This may be counter-intuitive, as it may seem as if one would decide to use a 1.5" diameter shaft, and then decide to cut splines into and settle on 35 splines. This is not how it actually works, In reality, the pitch controls the major diameter, as the following equation demonstrates. Using the eqation you can calculate the number of splines on any size shaft or conversely the size of any shaft given the pitch and number of splines.

Major Diameter

Do=(N+1)/P

Where:

Do = major diameter of splined shaft
N = number of splines
P = diametrical pitch (24 for just about every axle we care about)

If you know any 2 of the 3 variables you can simply re-arange the equation algabraicly and compute the third/

For example:

Q: What is the major diameter of a 35 spline shaft?

A: N=35, assume P=24, Do=(N+1)/p = (35+1)/24 = 36/34 = 1.50"
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Old 05-31-2007, 08:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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so where do we find the diametrical pitch?
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Old 05-31-2007, 09:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Fred, quick-n-dirty, 14-bolt is about 1-9/16" (1.5625), Dana 37 spline is hypothetically about 1.59", and Dana 35 spline is hypothetically 1.5". My 14-bolt dimension might be off a bit, maybe as much as 0.010, 'cause it's from very foggy memory. All three of those are major diameter, not pitch diameter, as major is what's commonly referenced (ie., "my buddy was really getting it and busted his 1.5-inch 35-spline Dana 60 rearend") and almost nobody uses pitch diameter outside of engineering calcs.

FWIW, 37 spline Dana is also 45 degree pressure angle; 35 spline (and all other Dana splines that I know of) is 30 degree pressure angle. 14-bolt is (according to Tech Tim) 37.5 degree pressure angle, yet another different one, and one that's unique to the 14-bolt to my knowledge. I don't have the tools to accurately measure its pressure angle, but it does appear to be about halfway between 30 and 45 degree from what I've inspected.

Last edited by Scott@Rockstomper; 05-31-2007 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 05-31-2007, 09:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
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neat! thanks
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Old 05-31-2007, 09:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Wow! That answered so much more of what I wanted to know! But I actually learned alot! Thanks!
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Old 05-31-2007, 11:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Minor Dia. (where the strength really comes from):
14FF 1.422
D80 1.490
D60/70 1.361
.
.
.
Assuming they were hobbed or rolled and not cut with an endmill.
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Old 10-29-2007, 08:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I'll bring this thread back cause I can't find what I'm looking for.

What is the diameter of a Sterling 10.25 35 spline shaft?

Will a 10.25 35 spline shaft fit a 9 inch 35 spline carrier?

Thanks
Luke
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Old 10-30-2007, 09:30 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 665.0coupe View Post
I'll bring this thread back cause I can't find what I'm looking for.

What is the diameter of a Sterling 10.25 35 spline shaft?

Will a 10.25 35 spline shaft fit a 9 inch 35 spline carrier?

Thanks
Luke
inch and a half diameter. 37.5 deg pressure angle. no it will not fit a 9 inch 35 spline.
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