12-volt power unit for hydraulic steering? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:53 AM   #1 (permalink)
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12-volt power unit for hydraulic steering?

My PSC pump has been on its last leg since the day I bought it and this weekend I overstrained it and I think it blew a seal or something because its still working but its whinning like a stuck pig even at idle. (Worse than it whined ever since I bought it, mind you.) My intent is to buy a POS pump at some point but apparently there are supply line issues at Delco and they can not commit to a delivery time and, unfortunately, I don't think this PSC pump will last another trip. That gets me to thinking about other options.

I'm not sure that the link I am about to post is even the right product. To be honest, I don't even know what the link is exactly. But I know I've seen about 5 rigs out on the trails that are using something that looks like this for their rear steer and they are able to get full power steering with it even with the engine not running.

http://www2.northerntool.com/product/200329768.htm

Obviously, I'm not concerned about street manners. But it looks to me like this unit has its own tank, a retun port, and a pressure port, which is about all a PS pump needs. In terms of voluume I don't even know what that unit is rated at. Again, I'm just using it as an example.

So is anyone using these for front and rear steering applications? Why do I only see people using them for rear steer? Is there any advantages or disadvantages to them? What would be considered a superior voluume rating?

At this point, I'm just trying to explore options and think maybe a little outside the box. That, and I think it'd be pretty cool to be able to steer without the engine running.

J. J.
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Old 11-12-2007, 09:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Just my experience/ take with a grain of salt.

I have it for the rear.

Positives
1. I don't need to run hoses from the front to the rear.

2. I have broke and used the rear to stear back to camp.

3. Easy instalation and cheep overall.

4. I have a electric small switch on my dash to run it.

cons

1. weighs more.

2. My system drifts as i drive across the lake bed.

3. finding a place to mount it. Large.

4. Mine is freeking fast. not recomended to use at speeds.


If i could find a way to keep it from drifting i'd recomend it for shure but i get tired of having to center the rear sometimes.

I don't belive it is realistic at all for front.

Last edited by tjmark; 11-12-2007 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:41 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I use one for rear steer, it works great. Lots of power. The only problem I had with it was the vent on the tank. On steep angles the fluid would block the vent and pressurize it so I put another tank on it and vented it properly and no more probs.

I'm pretty sure you couldn't use it for the front because it's on a toggle, not sure how you could get it to work with a orbital valve.
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:43 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I use something similiar made by Fenner STone , aka SPX. It is a different part number and has an integrated solenoid pack on top to divert the fluid and hold the fluid against pressure. I will see if I can post you the part number and a link to purchasing it. I know that Bailey hydrostatics in Knoxville can get them as I have bought parts for mine over the years..
Wouldn't use it for the front because it requires a hand held control to puch..
If your looking for another power steering pump and Station can't get you one have consider a HOWE...Very expensive, but, might be worth it to run front and rear steering with Stations uber bling rear steer valve..
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:45 AM   #5 (permalink)
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What do you mean it's on a toggle? Do these things also control flow? As in, you don't have a seperate rear-steer valve? If so, I didn't know that. Fast is great for me though.

Basically, I need sopemthing to be a pump and nothign more. I have everything else in my system set up and working. I don't really trust any pump besides Station's but have never had any experience with Howe. If I do go with just a regular old belt-driven pump again, it would probably be Station's. But I'm not sure that I have the time to wait for it.

J. J.
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Last edited by patooyee; 11-12-2007 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 11-12-2007, 02:16 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Try calling JR with Mason Dynamics at 800-653-1382 (www.masondynamics.com) They are a large reseller of monarch hydraulics that we purchase our 12 volt powerpacks from. JR has been extremely knowledgeable and helpful for my business. He should be able to figure out the drift, etc that TJMark has experienced. I do not know how affodable he is with buying just one or if he will even sell just one, but he definitely knows his sh*t
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Old 11-12-2007, 02:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
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we have 12 volt pump for front steering in formula offroad rig.

it`s 1500w so it will takes 125 amps when it operates. but in reality it takes more amps because voltage will drop and it will eat more amps.

some issues:

eats shit loads of amps you need big alternator
efi cars might have issues from voltage drop.
it heats very hot if you run it too long time.
it doesnt have power like belt driven ones
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Old 11-12-2007, 06:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by patooyee View Post
What do you mean it's on a toggle? Do these things also control flow? As in, you don't have a seperate rear-steer valve? If so, I didn't know that. Fast is great for me though.

Basically, I need sopemthing to be a pump and nothign more. I have everything else in my system set up and working. I don't really trust any pump besides Station's but have never had any experience with Howe. If I do go with just a regular old belt-driven pump again, it would probably be Station's. But I'm not sure that I have the time to wait for it.

J. J.
My 12 Volt power pack runs off of a hand held push button controller that I have on my dash..could be set for a toggle switch. I have seen several of the haldex units you linked to run on toggles...These things are for temporary use pretty much.. Even in the rear steer the oil warms and expands and I have seen several overflow. I have attached a link to one like mine. It is listed that at grainger even though don't sell them anymore.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...ryString=4Z339
or
go to grainger.com.. Search grainger number 4Z339E


.However, Bailey Hydraulics in Knoxville can get them and get parts..Their website is www.Bailey.net or 18008001810..
The part number is as follows: SPX fenner stone : serial number 1405 , part number 4Z339E, Model umber DB-1082..DC-60.
It is heavier than Stations unit....honestly if you want to keep a pump and you will have limited to mount your better off sticking with what you have or going to Station nice rear steer set-up. When my dies I will convert to stations set-up..
couple of pics and if you have questions e-mail me
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I have Station's rear-steer setup. The only thing that isn't his is the pump and only because I had one but fucked it up. (My fault, not his.) I was in a hurry for a pump at the time and PSC's was cheaper and in-stock, so I did what I had to do. I guess I see why theirs are cheaper now though.

I guess I just need to wait on one of Station's pumps and hope it gets here before my current pump dies. I just can't believe that there's not a 12-volt option in this day and age though. I mean, we have 12-volt water pumps, oil pumps, TV's, DVD's, backup cams, proximity sensors, hell, we even have an 12-volt BUGGY now! But no one can design a friggen hydro pump that works right???

J. J.
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by patooyee View Post
I have Station's rear-steer setup. The only thing that isn't his is the pump and only because I had one but fucked it up. (My fault, not his.) I was in a hurry for a pump at the time and PSC's was cheaper and in-stock, so I did what I had to do. I guess I see why theirs are cheaper now though.

I guess I just need to wait on one of Station's pumps and hope it gets here before my current pump dies. I just can't believe that there's not a 12-volt option in this day and age though. I mean, we have 12-volt water pumps, oil pumps, TV's, DVD's, backup cams, proximity sensors, hell, we even have an 12-volt BUGGY now! But no one can design a friggen hydro pump that works right???

J. J.
JJ- if you want to explore more options, do a search for Subaru powersteering pump, they are 12V and several guys on here are running them.HTH

Here's one: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...power+steering

Another has some good info/links http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...power+steering
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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what about some type of linear actuator instead of hydro? or what about a beefy air cylinder (i know air compresses and fluid doesnt)

i am agreeing the above post that it seems strange there are no other options for this.

found some linear actuators on Mcmaster that push and pulll 1500 pounds, but they are a grand each. you eliminate tanks and pumps and hoses, etc though, so it maybe worth it..

just a thought..
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Old 11-12-2007, 09:12 PM   #12 (permalink)
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what about some type of linear actuator instead of hydro? or what about a beefy air cylinder (i know air compresses and fluid doesnt)

i am agreeing the above post that it seems strange there are no other options for this.

found some linear actuators on Mcmaster that push and pulll 1500 pounds, but they are a grand each. you eliminate tanks and pumps and hoses, etc though, so it maybe worth it..

just a thought..
Good in theory, but 1500 lbs isn't enough thrust for this app.
For example, a 2" dia hydr ram used in conjunction with the pump shown in the original post (1600 psi) will be able to exert over 5000 lbs of thrust (extending).

You answered your own question about pneumatics.
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:01 PM   #13 (permalink)
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here is a crappy pic of mine

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Old 11-13-2007, 09:32 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Why don't you ask Sean to refer you to "Lee" who used to make pumps for him.. If the guy is still alive ( Lee Steering systems..no website) his would probably be a good choice. Sean used to use his pumps and last time I spoke with Sean he had nothing but good things to say about "Lee's" pumps...Good Luck.
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:21 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I know this is an old post but does the pump push and pull to control the rear steering or is the fluid just diverted one way or the other with the pump constantly pushing?
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:06 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I know this is an old post but does the pump push and pull to control the rear steering or is the fluid just diverted one way or the other with the pump constantly pushing?
If you buy a dual acting power pack it will push and pull ( or steer both directions) all in the single package
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:17 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I know this is an old post but does the pump push and pull to control the rear steering or is the fluid just diverted one way or the other with the pump constantly pushing?
There are several options. There is a much better thread than this with lots of info on rear steer. Also started by patoyee I believe.
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:51 AM   #18 (permalink)
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If you buy a dual acting power pack it will push and pull ( or steer both directions) all in the single package

got a link so I know what you're talking about by dual action power pack?
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