I'l still have a couple of beers while making any trip into the Con.
But I don't become an Idiot or a danger to anyone. If they were to start inforcing an open container law on the trail, then I'd just stop more often and enjoy a shady spot. Do I like being on the trail and around the yahoo idiots, NO I don't, but are you willing to go to the extremes to corral the minority. If so your doing just what the greenies are doing, just a different subject (stomping on someones else liberties. I believe there are other ways to deal with problems beside prohibation.
I'l still have a couple of beers while making any trip into the Con.
But I don't become an Idiot or a danger to anyone. If they were to start inforcing an open container law on the trail, then I'd just stop more often and enjoy a shady spot. Do I like being on the trail and around the yahoo idiots, NO I don't, but are you willing to go to the extremes to corral the minority. If so your doing just what the greenies are doing, just a different subject (stomping on someones else liberties. I believe there are other ways to deal with problems beside prohibation.
So if I embezel money from my company it is okay since I am not a danger to anyone? Illegal is illegal, so you can't compare to the greenies in this case.
Ok let me put it this way, is inforcing a no drinking law while in/or about the vehicle, going to stop all the complaints, or even a majority of the complaints that everyone has been making. Loud music at night, stealing from others campsites, fights, idiots in the box, etc.....NO, NO, NO, and if you truly believe anything but education will solve these problems, you had better go join the democratic party and create more new laws, to try and justify your means.
I'll volunteer to help establish some type of an education program for trail edicate.(sp) I believe only through education, not more laws or law inforcement, can these existing problems be truly solved.
With additional inforcement on the Con, you'll only force the idiots to find another place to invade.
Plenty at camp, and the best part is that we're usuially the only ones on the lakebed
I've been known to partake while having lunch on the trail or during down time while waiting on breakage. Having a beer in hand while driving, it has happened, but not very often.
since it seems most of the problems are coming from a certain age group, lets just outlaw anyone on the trail that is say under
30?
I would be easier for the po po to man a gate and check age than have to police the entire trail system.
And as far as forcing idiots to gather at other trails, what happens if they choose your next favorite spot. Do we then station more police in the "wilderness"?
Or should we just shoot and bury anyone that YOU feel is infriging on what YOU believe is the only way to act.
I just feel as a collective groups of responsible (?) individuals, we can influence a general change in manners, better than the police
trying to control everyones actions.
...are you willing to go to the extremes to corral the minority.
When did prevention of drinking and driving become extreme?
If so your doing just what the greenies are doing, just a different subject (stomping on someones else liberties.
When did drinking and driving become a basic liberty?
I believe there are other ways to deal with problems beside prohibation.
I agree... and it all starts with self-policing. There's an opportunity for us to get off our mutual asses and make a difference right now at: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61854
Other folks are looking for an excuse to close us down. THINK about that next time you pop the top on a beer as you idle down the trail. One may be entirely in control of oneself and one's vehicle... but one CANNOT control the public perception, and one0 may just be the poster child that the anti-access groups use to close us all down.
I believe, adn please correct me if I am wrong, most trails are either unpaved roads, in a national forest, or on someones private property.
As for the unpaved roads part, drinking and driving is illegal. There is no stipulation for driving on an unpaved road.
As for the national forest, isn't it illegal to have alcohol in a national forest?
As fro private property. If it ain't your property, WTF are you doing being a dipstick & fawkin it up for everyone?
Want to drink in camp? Fine, I got no beefs w/ that.
Want to act like asswipes, then there is a problem. When people in camps act like elementary school kids, then it needs to be put to a stop. No matter where they are at.
can we police ourselves, yes. Do we need to get the officials involved, sometimes. Are we gonna be able to stop everybody? No. We can only do what we can do. The problem is, people don't want to do what they can do.
Randii I agree that drinking and driving are not liberty, but I also believe that adding a police force to contol the situation will bring the trail closer to closure than it will to help. What happens if the MAN decides it is to expensive to mantain the enforcement, they'll use that as an excuse for closure!
I suggest we outlaw the bags hanging on the back of vehicles, they always show how much was drunk while using the trail system, the greenies could be using pictures of these to show the thing as the problem. I know I will get jumped on for this but, my drink of choice will end up in an enclosed mug from now on. Just so that the photo op's will be deminished.
And I promise to stop and get out of my vehicle when I do feel thursty.
Thats what I figured. Thats what it is like around here, exactly. I figured the bigtime boozing trails were the ones you are camped on, and living out of the rig. We usually have a base camp, like you guys do on the lakebed, to keep all the camping crap.
...I also believe that adding a police force to contol the situation will bring the trail closer to closure than it will to help.
Here's where we disagree. I have seen first-hand that a police presence on the Rubicon makes people behave better.
...and I'm willing to tolerate a short-term spike in enforcement until the yahoos get it through their heads. Heck, I'd like to see the grants written that exact way -- get badges in there fast, and then slope off, replacing them with volunteers and clubs that can be trained in the interim. Putting a sunset on the police would be a GOOD thing, I think.
What happens if the MAN decides it is to expensive to mantain the enforcement, they'll use that as an excuse for closure!
Let's not play what-if. The Rubicon, IMHO, is headed for closure unless we can clean up our hobby's image. The MAN is a secondary issue -- our image is the primary issue.
I know I will get jumped on for this but, my drink of choice will end up in an enclosed mug from now on.
I'll jump to support you. This makes good sense. I'll just assume you're swigging Near-Beer.
And I promise to stop and get out of my vehicle when I do feel thursty.
I wish that everyone would do this.
Hell, I wish that everyone would stop and examine how their personal choices affect everyone else... but that's asking too much these days.
I voted for "Hang 'em High", but only because there was no choice for "Try to talk to them and educate them... and if that doesn't work, hang 'em high".
It's illegal to have an OPEN CONTAINER in any motorized vehicle within the boundaries of a National PARK. Different rules apply to the National FOREST, though drinking while driving any NF road (paved or otherwise) would certainly be illegal.
Last time I looked, drinking and driving WAS (and still IS ) against the law ! " PERIOD ! " No if,s and,s or but,s about it ! Why are "WE" allowing the actions of so few, dictate to so many ? Guys, GUYS, ... IT IS AGAINST THE LAW ! Agree with it or not...it is the law. I,m gonna get flack for this one..... but it seems the younger set thinks you need to be intoxicated to be having a good time ? When I,m wheeling...I want to be 100% sober ,so I can enjoy ever second of it ! In camp , I,ll tip a cold one with you, rehash the days events and get toasted..."IN CAMP "! Education is the real way to efect change, but.. enforcement is also needed so as education will work. my .02
Last time I looked, drinking and driving WAS (and still IS ) against the law ! " PERIOD ! " No if,s and,s or but,s about it ! Why are "WE" allowing the actions of so few, dictate to so many ? Guys, GUYS, ... IT IS AGAINST THE LAW ! Agree with it or not...it is the law. I,m gonna get flack for this one..... but it seems the younger set thinks you need to be intoxicated to be having a good time ? When I,m wheeling...I want to be 100% sober ,so I can enjoy ever second of it ! In camp , I,ll tip a cold one with you, rehash the days events and get toasted..."IN CAMP "! Education is the real way to efect change, but.. enforcement is also needed so as education will work. my .02
First off I hate Beer, Can't stand the smell of it and I see what it does to people. That said, if people wanna drink so be it. All my buddies bring beer and drink it constantly, but they aren't so damn drunk that they are a danger to others or really to themselves. I think what it boils down to is that you have to know yourself and what you are like when you are drunk. If you are obnoxious, angry, drunk off your ass and can't drive for shiat, or are a danger to yourself and others then you shouldn't be drinking on the trail. Biggest thing about alcohol is that it impairs your judgment in everything you do. I watched on the Con while people were wraping winch cables around trees and driving up bushes and trees with their rigs cause they were too drunk to know any better. If you wanna sit down at night in camp and drink to your heats content then have at it. If your busted ass is in the trail and you want refreshment while you wrench so be it, no complaints from me but drunkeness has no business on the trails if you are driving! And Tracy is right, it's not up for debate, if you drink and drive it's illegal, period!
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