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Old 07-11-2001, 12:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Post 3 link or 4 link front end? For my toy.

Ok so I'm going to coil the front end of my toy to try to match or come close to the articulation of the rear. Can't decide whether or not to go with a 3 link or with a 4 link. What are the advantages of both? Right now I am running aerostar coils in the rear and I am pondering eb coils in the front. Anyone know of a soft coil to run? Aerostars in the front would be killer, waaaay to soft.
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Old 07-11-2001, 12:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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have not seen a coiled front end that i like yet.leaf springs up front seem to be the ticket
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Old 07-11-2001, 12:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Bigfeck is using some sort of Wild Horses coils in the front of his toy. You might want to ask what he's using and how he likes it. bigfeck@gnrac.net BTW- 3 link with a panhard bar seems to be the hot ticket.
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Old 07-11-2001, 01:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Well I love my 4 linked Aerostar coiled Willys front and rear end. It has a Chevy V6 in it so it might be close to weight of the Toyota. It is very soft, but that is the best part about it all.



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Old 07-11-2001, 01:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by camo:
<STRONG>have not seen a coiled front end that i like yet.leaf springs up front seem to be the ticket</STRONG>
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!! SURE YOU HAVE!!!!


LOLOLOLOL <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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Old 07-11-2001, 01:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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so tell me you guys how well do you like those soft coils up front on a off camber downhill? (with a big cliff on the side)

ya they flex like mad and handle high speed whoops like no other but i will trade those qualitys for stability.
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Old 07-11-2001, 01:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Well, I haven't been in the situation you described yet since this Rubicon trip was my first run in the rig other than Hollister. If the situation you describe is that much of a pucker factor, I will most likely bust out my center mounted winch (once I get it back from Randy) to aid in a situation like that. So far, I really like the setup. Time will tell of course if I start not liking it. Despite its visual look of instability, it doesn't feel that way when driving in it.

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Old 07-11-2001, 01:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by camo:
[QB]so tell me you guys how well do you like those soft coils up front on a off camber downhill? (with a big cliff on the side)

I run very soft coils on my TJ with the swaybars thrown in the trash can....used to be kinda spooky on those side hills, but I went with Rancho 9000's w/ in cab controls so I can firm up the down hill side and soften up the uphill side. And just leave 'em soft for all the other times...
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Old 07-11-2001, 02:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm running a 4 bar-Vlink front and rear with coil-overs and it handles like a big quadrunner, the harder I hit it, the better it likes it. I'll never go back to leaves on this rig.
<IMG width=440 height=330 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/P5040107sml.jpg">
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Old 07-11-2001, 02:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by camo:
<STRONG>so tell me you guys how well do you like those soft coils up front on a off camber downhill? (with a big cliff on the side)

ya they flex like mad and handle high speed whoops like no other but i will trade those qualitys for stability.</STRONG>
Your always gonna have trade-offs, You asked for a good coil set-up, if you wanted stiff, just put stiff coils up front, a soft leaf sprung front will act bad off camber downhill also!!! I personally did the coils for the improved approach angle.
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Old 07-11-2001, 02:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I run very soft coils on my TJ with the swaybars thrown in the trash can....used to be kinda spooky on those side hills, but I went with Rancho 9000's w/ in cab controls so I can firm up the down hill side and soften up the uphill side. And just leave 'em soft for all the other times...Ummm... so you run across sidehill sections FAST? It's not like you've charged 'em with air, they'll still just dampen dynamic movement... a long, slow lean will compress the downhill side of your rig still...

I'm with Camo. I haven't seen all that many all-coil rigs that work all that great off the ramp. Leaf springs are low tech, but generally more predictable.

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Old 07-11-2001, 03:00 PM   #12 (permalink)
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You are missing the point, a coil with the same spring rate will act very similar to a leaf the the same spring rate. You just think they are more unstable because everyone that puts coils on their rig goes for the ultra soft springs! With leaves you can not go ultra soft because you loose axle control.
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Old 07-11-2001, 03:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Take one more look at the front spring track on my FJ.... quite a bit wider than the stock leaf set-up... that has the word "Stability" written all over it!!! But yes I do have ultra soft spring on it right now, still trying to find suitable rates.
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Old 07-11-2001, 03:06 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Thats one of the great things about the 2 spring coil-over setups, U can change one or both spring rates in 15 min. my jeep weighs about 4100 equal ft/rear and I'm running 450 lb fronts and 350 lb rears, it could use a little more rear spring for baja work, maybe 350/400 would be best, but for rocks it works great, if I hammer it into a wall it will just start to bottom. It is too stiff to ramp well, but I never got too concerned about ramps anyway.
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Old 07-11-2001, 03:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
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<IMG width=490 height=367 SRC="http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/samside.jpg">
This does look scarry soft, but I agree nothing wrong with coils it is just possible to be to soft for some situations
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Old 07-11-2001, 03:12 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Sorry, don't buy it. I have to agree with Ant.

Either way whatever theory is, I am very happy with my setup right now. VERY HAPPY. Whether technically right or wrong, it works well for my driving style right now.

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Old 07-11-2001, 03:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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if your happy i'm happy.

no one setup is gonna be the end all solution. i like front leafs and rear 3 or 4 link. dosen't make it right or wrong. to each his own.
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Old 07-11-2001, 03:16 PM   #18 (permalink)
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i have a 4 link in the front and rear of my early bronco and love it.
(you can see it here)
http://w3.one.net/~marc/broncohio/tech/fourlink.html

and just as camo said the down hill was a little spooky so i run a little stiffer coil in the front. it helps a lot. and yes i drive it on the road 65+ to work and to get icecream.

i use to think i got better articulation with the soft coils but i didn't. just a real shitty ride on the street. don't worry about going stiffer. it helps every thing. and it does not hurt the flex one bit. also for the guy that runs his 9000s on the light setting, when you say you turn the up hill side to the lightest setting, why? first of all it will let the body bounce around, secound the 9000s are not 100% adjustable, you can not adjust the rebound. it never changes from the factiory only the compression.

what i'm trying to say is don't go for the softest suspension, try the firmer side, you'll like it, it gives much more stabilaty at slow and faster speeds and does not hurt the flex.
trust me you will be glad you did.
sorry for the spelling, my wifes not here to yell at me...
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Old 07-11-2001, 03:17 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
if your happy i'm happy.
no one setup is gonna be the end all solution. i like front leafs and rear 3 or 4 link. dosen't make it right or wrong. to each his own.
Right on with that one Camo.

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Old 07-11-2001, 03:26 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Dirtrod,
what type of coil overs you runnin? i like the Kings, but do not have them. seems like good people and the price is middle of the road. some day i'll have a set can you give any pointer? things to ask for, external reservoirs, etc...

i'm thinking the 14 inch travel for the front and external bypass for the rear 1/4 elliptic.
thanks
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Old 07-11-2001, 03:29 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dirtrod:
<STRONG>Thats one of the great things about the 2 spring coil-over setups, U can change one or both spring rates in 15 min. my jeep weighs about 4100 equal ft/rear and I'm running 450 lb fronts and 350 lb rears, it could use a little more rear spring for baja work, maybe 350/400 would be best, but for rocks it works great, if I hammer it into a wall it will just start to bottom. It is too stiff to ramp well, but I never got too concerned about ramps anyway.</STRONG>
WOW!!! I'm running 350/130 up front and 350/110 in back, I totally goofed on the back and am switching to 350/350. But the front seems to work well with those 130's.
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Old 07-11-2001, 03:31 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by steelman:
<STRONG>Ant,

i'm thinking the 14 inch travel for the front and external bypass for the rear 1/4 elliptic.
thanks
steelman</STRONG>
External bypass is only gonna help you at 100+mph, I wouldn't waste the $$
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Old 07-11-2001, 03:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dirtrod:
<STRONG>Thats one of the great things about the 2 spring coil-over setups, U can change one or both spring rates in 15 min. my jeep weighs about 4100 equal ft/rear and I'm running 450 lb fronts and 350 lb rears, it could use a little more rear spring for baja work, maybe 350/400 would be best, but for rocks it works great, if I hammer it into a wall it will just start to bottom. It is too stiff to ramp well, but I never got too concerned about ramps anyway.</STRONG>
when you stack two springs on top of each other the new rate is found byt the equation Rnew=1/(1/r1 + 1/r2) So your spring rate with two 450 Lb springs is 225 Lb/in and your rear is 175 Lb/in. My front coils are 225 Lb/in (BC Broncos softest EB coils) and They work great.
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Old 07-11-2001, 03:42 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I've got the 36"o/a x 15" travel doetsch, I don't have any experience with the others, so I can't compare. They told me the remotes are not needed unless you are racing hard and fast. They are pretty simple to work on, and the ride is fantastic. The only problems so far have been from hiem joints or rods giving away, and not the shocks fault. They are kinda noisey (spring noises) when flexing, but I can live with that.
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Old 07-11-2001, 03:48 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ant:
<STRONG>
Quote:
Originally posted by steelman:
[qb]Ant,

i'm thinking the 14 inch travel for the front and external bypass for the rear 1/4 elliptic.
thanks
steelman</STRONG>
External bypass is only gonna help you at 100+mph, I wouldn't waste the $$[/QB]
Ant,
oh they do so much more than that. granted they are better suited for faster stuff but..
if you get the 3 stage external you can set the first stage softer to take the small bumps and set the 2nd stage to control the mid secsion and rebound. the 3rd you can set so stiff they act like a internal bump stop. or you can set the 2nd stage for high rebound to stop the wheels fron comeing of the ground after a nice ramp at the local tuff truck race. i have watched the buggys that have them and with relativly light spring rates you can set the compression and rebound so high that it gives a soft on road ride but still will have the damping to give fether soft landings from 6 feet in the air. its also fun to take grandma out and hit the 8 inch parking lot cerbs at 50 MPH and not feel a thing. also going off the 4 foot high semi loading dock at about 50 is fun.

and all this adjustability with just a standard screw driver and a 5/8 wrench.

i agree they are big bucks but man would it be cool.
steelman

[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: steelman ]
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