My new build thread ... - Page 7 - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

patooyee · 08-08-2009, 11:49 AM

So I took 4 days of vacation time just to work on the buggy and it turns out I only got to actually spend 2 of them working on it due to both batteries in my disel dying in the Wal-Mart parking lot, several AAA tows to and from the dealership, only to come home with the a/c not working and having to bring it straight back. Then in addition to that the window quit qorking in my company van so I spent a bunch of time ferrying that to and from the dealer to get fixed. (Both vehicles are under warranty. The diesel is a GM and the van is a Dodge ... hmm, I wonder why both those companies had to be bailed out to stay afloat???)

Anyway, in 4 days all I got done was finished hanging my drivetrain and cut the bottom piece to the belly pan. Designing that piece and cutting it took a full day alone as it was a third of a sheet of steel and I wanted to make sure that I got it right the first time. Plus, so much fo the rest of the subframe will tie into it that it took me hours just to brainstorm and properly design it to make sure that I included everything I needed in it. Watch, now that I post pics ya'll will probably find 40 fucking things I forgot.

At this point my belly should be roughly about 18 - 19" off the ground at ride height with the top of the cage roughly about 5'9" - 5'10" with the 47's. My front driveshaft is almost maxed out going UP TO the rockwell pinion in the front and clears the motor mount by about 2mm (may have to make some clearance there somehow in the future). It comes within an inch of the LS water spout.

J. J.

B.A.R.K · 08-08-2009, 02:02 PM

The TC mounts look beefy.
What was your reasoning behind the odd angle of the bushing?

patooyee · 08-08-2009, 03:08 PM

The idea was to form a V so that forward and backward movement of the drivetrain would load the body of the bushings instead of just the the shoulders while still resisting torsional forces.

J. J.

patooyee · 08-22-2009, 08:26 AM

Well, the bottom of the subframe that I had already cut that is shown above isn't going to work so its a waste afterall. I should have known to run suspension numbers before designing link mounts but I'm new to this CAD shit so oh well, you live you learn.

With a redesign I'm able to come up with satisfactory suspension numbers both front and rear. I'd post them but I still have to fine-tune the top links before I end up with anything written in stone. I've been spending the past couple of WEEKS just doing CAD work and running suspension numbers. Some of the time was just teaching myself how to properly do the CAD work, the rest was not settling for anything less than what I wanted for suspension geometry and wheelbase. This buggy is going to be one of the shortest rockwell buggies on a 321 chassis at 120". Everything barely fits that way. Here's what I've got done in two weeks. It's still not finished but to be honest I'm fucking tired of CAD and design and I'm ready to start doing some cutting and fabbing. I'll do the rest of the bracing and shit on the fly.

No, the holes won't be dimpled. They're just there for looks in an extra layer of plate to add rigidity. I don't want dimples in my subframe because I won't be able to paint the insides of the resultant structure and will have a hellacious time getting mud and rust out.

BTW, the entire subframe will unbolt from the main frame for easy access trans / t-case repairs. Shouldn't be a big deal at all to drop it out on the lift with a trans jack. I may even make some temp brackets that will hold the lower links in place against the top links for when they have to come off to drop the subframe.

The front suspension will be 4-links with the top links straight and the lowers converging at the chassis with the rear suspension also being a 4-link with the lower links straight and the top links converging at the chassis. The top pic is at theoretical ride height.

Next week will be fab time!

J. J.

elf_cruiser · 08-22-2009, 09:32 AM

Nice dude - how long til we see some wheelin pics? Let us know how it goes running the geared pump at high revs like that - I hope it lasts for ya!

patooyee · 08-22-2009, 09:46 AM

Probably a long time. There's lots of little details I want to take care of over time on this build that I've never spent the time to do in the past. I'm just trying to enjoy my time in the shop as oppossed to rushing.

J. J.

kpj · 08-22-2009, 10:13 AM

So, how do you think the visibility and overall size of the buggy are? I'm looking hard at these chassis', but just wondering if they would do well up here in the northeast. I know you are going fairly large with axles and tires, but personnally, I'm planning on using 60s front and rear with 39's or 42s.

Great looking build by the way.

patooyee · 08-22-2009, 10:22 AM

Personally, I love the size of the chassis itself. Its fairly small and tight so that its not super-heavy but still has space. There's more interior space than my old chassis if you've ever seen pics of it. Overall my buggy is going to appear large just because of the 47's and rockwells but I've seen other 321 chassis at EOR that are running tons and 40's and they are surprisingly small. Visibility is subjective but I wouldnt say that its the best. If you look at where the seats go in this chassis compared to the front end, the front end is pretty long. On the other hand though my chassis should be so low that I should be able to just barely catch the top of my passenger front 47. (Or I'm hoping at least.)

Its a very builder-friendly chassis and I think folks are starting to finally realize that. I'm starting to see more and more builds popping up with them. Its a great size for builds of all types which is why I think its gaining popularity. The only way I think one would regret buying one is if you were working with something super-exotic that just required custom shit all around. And if you're doing that you should know better than to buy a pre-designed chassis anyway.

J. J.

rockyota83 · 08-23-2009, 03:25 AM

on the thick 2.25" steering arms could you recess the holes for the studs so the nut is hidden flush with the top of the arm, allowing you to get a shorter stud in there?

patooyee · 08-23-2009, 08:07 AM

That may be an option. I've taken a break on the steering arms for now because I'm not sure how much space I'm going to have above the axle anymore.

J. J.

patooyee · 08-30-2009, 11:08 AM

I've been busting my ass lately drilling and sleeving all the holes in the frame for the subframe brackets and finally finished. I wish I had had the forethought to build a removeable subframe before I put the chassis together because then I could have drilled these 56 3/4" holes on the drill press. But since I didn't it was all done by hand over the course of about 5 work days. They all got sleeves welded in with 1/2" bolts going through both horizontally and vertically. That subframe ain't goin nowhere. He's a pic of some of the brackets installed:

There needed to be a gusset where the frame rails weld together. The 321 kit comes with a diamond-shaped gusset but I kind of wanted something more blingy. The gusset had to be welded on before I could finish my subframe brackets so I made some angry flame gussets.

They didn't turn out as good as I hoped they would though. What are your thoughts? Are they gay or will they look super-bad once they're painted? I've got a lot of time into them and tearing them off to make soemthing else would require exponentially more time ...

Where they are on the frame:

Then I got to work on the actual sub-frame. (FINALLY!) That's 3/16" laminated with 12-guage:

Next days to work are early next week. My goal is to have a rolling chassis by Sept. 18 so that it can come off the lift for my buddy to do his exhaust on while I am out of town on a Cruise.

J. J.

xr8ed · 08-30-2009, 11:34 AM

you keeping the stock oil pan? any plans for an oil accumulator? amazing how the plasma table opens up so many new options, I love the subframe, it should come out nice, and very functional.

patooyee · 08-30-2009, 11:57 AM

That's not the stock oil pan. That motor is out of an SSR so it had a front sump pan with a gigantic hole through the middle in stock form. I actually traded the truck pan from a buddy with the express purpose of getting as much oil capacity as possible. I coul dhave got one of the shallower car pans but I didn't want it. The trans pan and t-case both go about as low as the truck pan so there's not much point in getting a really shallow car pan when everything else is going to stay low anyway. Once I get to building the oil pan skid plate I will see if a car pan is going to be necessary but yes, I will be getting an oil accumulator.

The plasma table does open tons of new options. It also has it limitations that i am learning though. It is a whole new world of fab for me though.

J. J.

tim90 · 08-30-2009, 12:23 PM

I love this all.................

except the flames.

But then I am from Europe.

Tim

jeepfool · 08-30-2009, 01:15 PM

Looks good JJ....wish mine was moving this fast......

BTW... ONLY becaused you asked......not a big fan of the flames either....

DiscoDino · 08-30-2009, 02:37 PM

I see lobster clamps, no flames

As long as they work...

patooyee · 08-30-2009, 02:46 PM

Yeah, the responses about the flames are just confirming my own suspisions that the flames are gay. I guess I'll grind them off and do something else but it'll have to wait until later. More concerned with other things right now.

J. J.

draggbody · 08-30-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscoDino

I see lobster clamps, no flames

As long as they work...

they are who hands...

xr8ed · 08-30-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patooyee

That's not the stock oil pan. That motor is out of an SSR so it had a front sump pan with a gigantic hole through the middle in stock form. I actually traded the truck pan from a buddy with the express purpose of getting as much oil capacity as possible. I coul dhave got one of the shallower car pans but I didn't want it. The trans pan and t-case both go about as low as the truck pan so there's not much point in getting a really shallow car pan when everything else is going to stay low anyway. Once I get to building the oil pan skid plate I will see if a car pan is going to be necessary but yes, I will be getting an oil accumulator.

The plasma table does open tons of new options. It also has it limitations that i am learning though. It is a whole new world of fab for me though.

J. J.

I ditched my stock truck pan for a 5qt kevko. and i gained 3" if you need the capacity kevko also makes a 6qt that will gain you 2" not to mention the trap doors that the kevko pans have to keep oil at the pickup.

With that much $$ into the engine, it's a sound bit of insurance to get as much help with oiling as possible. I'd suggest the kevko pan and the accumulator both. Twisted Customs offers kevko pans or you can get them direct from kevco, TC also sells a baffle kit you can weld into your stock pan if your dead set on keeping it.

Action Fab · 08-30-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patooyee

Where they are on the frame:

Dude get some flap disks. You are building some nice stuff, then you go fuck up the chassis by gouging it with a stone wheel.

Oh try turning your wire speed down and the heat up some. Your also holding you your gun at to high of an angle. The weld is running over the plate rather than pressing in between the two plates

my .02

rajincajingt · 08-31-2009, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patooyee

J. J.

i think they look ghey at 4" but at 10' they will look fine,

i second the flap wheel idea, i just got some and they rock!

imagineer · 08-31-2009, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr8ed

I ditched my stock truck pan for a 5qt kevko. and i gained 3" if you need the capacity kevko also makes a 6qt that will gain you 2" not to mention the trap doors that the kevko pans have to keep oil at the pickup.

With that much $$ into the engine, it's a sound bit of insurance to get as much help with oiling as possible. I'd suggest the kevko pan and the accumulator both. Twisted Customs offers kevko pans or you can get them direct from kevco, TC also sells a baffle kit you can weld into your stock pan if your dead set on keeping it.

I have the 5 or 5.5 quart kevco. With My 3 quart accumulator, 10 feet of 5/8 hose, 11x11 oil cooler and a remote oil filter I hold almost 12 quarts of oil

xr8ed · 08-31-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imagineer

I have the 5 or 5.5 quart kevco. With My 3 quart accumulator, 10 feet of 5/8 hose, 11x11 oil cooler and a remote oil filter I hold almost 12 quarts of oil

patooyee · 09-17-2009, 07:47 AM

Finished the removeable subframe. That's it before I go on vacation. When I get back I'll start on suspension.

Pic of my modified stock fuel rails installed:

I think this is an EGR solenoid. Can someone confirm? And will it stay or go when I cut my harness down?

J. J.

chris demartini · 09-17-2009, 08:00 AM

Looks like the Evap soleniod. It gets brown filed.

08-08-2009, 11:49 AM	#151 (permalink)
patooyee www.patparts.com Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4821 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 8,679	So I took 4 days of vacation time just to work on the buggy and it turns out I only got to actually spend 2 of them working on it due to both batteries in my disel dying in the Wal-Mart parking lot, several AAA tows to and from the dealership, only to come home with the a/c not working and having to bring it straight back. Then in addition to that the window quit qorking in my company van so I spent a bunch of time ferrying that to and from the dealer to get fixed. (Both vehicles are under warranty. The diesel is a GM and the van is a Dodge ... hmm, I wonder why both those companies had to be bailed out to stay afloat???) Anyway, in 4 days all I got done was finished hanging my drivetrain and cut the bottom piece to the belly pan. Designing that piece and cutting it took a full day alone as it was a third of a sheet of steel and I wanted to make sure that I got it right the first time. Plus, so much fo the rest of the subframe will tie into it that it took me hours just to brainstorm and properly design it to make sure that I included everything I needed in it. Watch, now that I post pics ya'll will probably find 40 fucking things I forgot. At this point my belly should be roughly about 18 - 19" off the ground at ride height with the top of the cage roughly about 5'9" - 5'10" with the 47's. My front driveshaft is almost maxed out going UP TO the rockwell pinion in the front and clears the motor mount by about 2mm (may have to make some clearance there somehow in the future). It comes within an inch of the LS water spout. J. J. __________________ www.PATPARTS.com NEW Dual PS Pump bracket for LS Engines! - New LS Engine Head Mount Plates Last edited by patooyee; 08-08-2009 at 11:54 AM.

08-08-2009, 02:02 PM	#152 (permalink)
B.A.R.K Zeus of the Sluice Join Date: Dec 2001 Member # 8540 Location: Lafayette, LA Posts: 3,318	The TC mounts look beefy. What was your reasoning behind the odd angle of the bushing? __________________ 92YJ/2.5L/HD4:1D300/F&R D44/5:38/36 SX/99"WB Nothing is stronger than stupid...

08-08-2009, 03:08 PM	#153 (permalink)
patooyee www.patparts.com Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4821 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 8,679	The idea was to form a V so that forward and backward movement of the drivetrain would load the body of the bushings instead of just the the shoulders while still resisting torsional forces. J. J. __________________ www.PATPARTS.com NEW Dual PS Pump bracket for LS Engines! - New LS Engine Head Mount Plates

08-22-2009, 08:26 AM	#154 (permalink)
patooyee www.patparts.com Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4821 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 8,679	Well, the bottom of the subframe that I had already cut that is shown above isn't going to work so its a waste afterall. I should have known to run suspension numbers before designing link mounts but I'm new to this CAD shit so oh well, you live you learn. With a redesign I'm able to come up with satisfactory suspension numbers both front and rear. I'd post them but I still have to fine-tune the top links before I end up with anything written in stone. I've been spending the past couple of WEEKS just doing CAD work and running suspension numbers. Some of the time was just teaching myself how to properly do the CAD work, the rest was not settling for anything less than what I wanted for suspension geometry and wheelbase. This buggy is going to be one of the shortest rockwell buggies on a 321 chassis at 120". Everything barely fits that way. Here's what I've got done in two weeks. It's still not finished but to be honest I'm fucking tired of CAD and design and I'm ready to start doing some cutting and fabbing. I'll do the rest of the bracing and shit on the fly. No, the holes won't be dimpled. They're just there for looks in an extra layer of plate to add rigidity. I don't want dimples in my subframe because I won't be able to paint the insides of the resultant structure and will have a hellacious time getting mud and rust out. BTW, the entire subframe will unbolt from the main frame for easy access trans / t-case repairs. Shouldn't be a big deal at all to drop it out on the lift with a trans jack. I may even make some temp brackets that will hold the lower links in place against the top links for when they have to come off to drop the subframe. The front suspension will be 4-links with the top links straight and the lowers converging at the chassis with the rear suspension also being a 4-link with the lower links straight and the top links converging at the chassis. The top pic is at theoretical ride height. Next week will be fab time! J. J. Attached Images __________________ www.PATPARTS.com NEW Dual PS Pump bracket for LS Engines! - New LS Engine Head Mount Plates Last edited by patooyee; 08-22-2009 at 08:48 AM.

08-22-2009, 09:32 AM	#155 (permalink)
elf_cruiser Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Member # 2857 Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA Posts: 3,387	Nice dude - how long til we see some wheelin pics? Let us know how it goes running the geared pump at high revs like that - I hope it lasts for ya! __________________ BTG Rockcrawlers - Phoenix, AZ Rockwelled FJ40 buggy - slow , 2010 Nissan GTR - fast

08-22-2009, 09:46 AM	#156 (permalink)
patooyee www.patparts.com Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4821 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 8,679	Probably a long time. There's lots of little details I want to take care of over time on this build that I've never spent the time to do in the past. I'm just trying to enjoy my time in the shop as oppossed to rushing. J. J. __________________ www.PATPARTS.com NEW Dual PS Pump bracket for LS Engines! - New LS Engine Head Mount Plates

08-22-2009, 10:13 AM	#157 (permalink)
kpj Rock God Join Date: Sep 2001 Member # 6920 Location: Amesbury, MA Posts: 1,815	So, how do you think the visibility and overall size of the buggy are? I'm looking hard at these chassis', but just wondering if they would do well up here in the northeast. I know you are going fairly large with axles and tires, but personnally, I'm planning on using 60s front and rear with 39's or 42s. Great looking build by the way.

08-22-2009, 10:22 AM	#158 (permalink)
patooyee www.patparts.com Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4821 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 8,679	Personally, I love the size of the chassis itself. Its fairly small and tight so that its not super-heavy but still has space. There's more interior space than my old chassis if you've ever seen pics of it. Overall my buggy is going to appear large just because of the 47's and rockwells but I've seen other 321 chassis at EOR that are running tons and 40's and they are surprisingly small. Visibility is subjective but I wouldnt say that its the best. If you look at where the seats go in this chassis compared to the front end, the front end is pretty long. On the other hand though my chassis should be so low that I should be able to just barely catch the top of my passenger front 47. (Or I'm hoping at least.) Its a very builder-friendly chassis and I think folks are starting to finally realize that. I'm starting to see more and more builds popping up with them. Its a great size for builds of all types which is why I think its gaining popularity. The only way I think one would regret buying one is if you were working with something super-exotic that just required custom shit all around. And if you're doing that you should know better than to buy a pre-designed chassis anyway. J. J. __________________ www.PATPARTS.com NEW Dual PS Pump bracket for LS Engines! - New LS Engine Head Mount Plates Last edited by patooyee; 08-22-2009 at 10:24 AM.

08-23-2009, 03:25 AM	#159 (permalink)
rockyota83 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Member # 53528 Location: norcal Posts: 2,599	on the thick 2.25" steering arms could you recess the holes for the studs so the nut is hidden flush with the top of the arm, allowing you to get a shorter stud in there? Last edited by rockyota83; 08-23-2009 at 03:25 AM.

08-23-2009, 08:07 AM	#160 (permalink)
patooyee www.patparts.com Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4821 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 8,679	That may be an option. I've taken a break on the steering arms for now because I'm not sure how much space I'm going to have above the axle anymore. J. J. __________________ www.PATPARTS.com NEW Dual PS Pump bracket for LS Engines! - New LS Engine Head Mount Plates

08-30-2009, 11:08 AM	#161 (permalink)
patooyee www.patparts.com Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4821 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 8,679	I've been busting my ass lately drilling and sleeving all the holes in the frame for the subframe brackets and finally finished. I wish I had had the forethought to build a removeable subframe before I put the chassis together because then I could have drilled these 56 3/4" holes on the drill press. But since I didn't it was all done by hand over the course of about 5 work days. They all got sleeves welded in with 1/2" bolts going through both horizontally and vertically. That subframe ain't goin nowhere. He's a pic of some of the brackets installed: There needed to be a gusset where the frame rails weld together. The 321 kit comes with a diamond-shaped gusset but I kind of wanted something more blingy. The gusset had to be welded on before I could finish my subframe brackets so I made some angry flame gussets. They didn't turn out as good as I hoped they would though. What are your thoughts? Are they gay or will they look super-bad once they're painted? I've got a lot of time into them and tearing them off to make soemthing else would require exponentially more time ... Where they are on the frame: Then I got to work on the actual sub-frame. (FINALLY!) That's 3/16" laminated with 12-guage: Next days to work are early next week. My goal is to have a rolling chassis by Sept. 18 so that it can come off the lift for my buddy to do his exhaust on while I am out of town on a Cruise. J. J. __________________ www.PATPARTS.com NEW Dual PS Pump bracket for LS Engines! - New LS Engine Head Mount Plates Last edited by patooyee; 08-30-2009 at 11:11 AM.

08-30-2009, 11:34 AM	#162 (permalink)
xr8ed Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Member # 84965 Location: Edgewood, WA Posts: 540	you keeping the stock oil pan? any plans for an oil accumulator? amazing how the plasma table opens up so many new options, I love the subframe, it should come out nice, and very functional. Last edited by xr8ed; 08-30-2009 at 11:38 AM.

08-30-2009, 11:57 AM	#163 (permalink)
patooyee www.patparts.com Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4821 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 8,679	That's not the stock oil pan. That motor is out of an SSR so it had a front sump pan with a gigantic hole through the middle in stock form. I actually traded the truck pan from a buddy with the express purpose of getting as much oil capacity as possible. I coul dhave got one of the shallower car pans but I didn't want it. The trans pan and t-case both go about as low as the truck pan so there's not much point in getting a really shallow car pan when everything else is going to stay low anyway. Once I get to building the oil pan skid plate I will see if a car pan is going to be necessary but yes, I will be getting an oil accumulator. The plasma table does open tons of new options. It also has it limitations that i am learning though. It is a whole new world of fab for me though. J. J. __________________ www.PATPARTS.com NEW Dual PS Pump bracket for LS Engines! - New LS Engine Head Mount Plates

08-30-2009, 12:23 PM	#164 (permalink)
tim90 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Member # 56427 Posts: 312	I love this all................. except the flames. But then I am from Europe. Tim __________________ Build thread [url]http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=790383[/url]

08-30-2009, 01:15 PM	#165 (permalink)
jeepfool Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Member # 120255 Location: Crestview, FL Posts: 458	Looks good JJ....wish mine was moving this fast...... BTW... ONLY becaused you asked......not a big fan of the flames either.... __________________ [COLOR="Red"]The true Soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' -G. K. Chesterton[/COLOR]

08-30-2009, 02:37 PM	#166 (permalink)
DiscoDino Rock God Join Date: Nov 2002 Member # 15296 Location: Lebanon/Dubai Posts: 2,178	I see lobster clamps, no flames As long as they work... __________________ '92 Land Rover Disco truggy: Beadlocked 42" Iroks, V8, ZF, dual cases, ARBs, Longfielded, M8274-50s with ropes, etc... '98 Land Rover Discovery: 29" BFG ATs '02 D90 TD5 ST: 33" BFG ATs '91 Defender 110: Build in progress '07 BMW G650X Challange: Interco Terraflex 29" rear tire

08-30-2009, 02:46 PM	#167 (permalink)
patooyee www.patparts.com Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4821 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 8,679	Yeah, the responses about the flames are just confirming my own suspisions that the flames are gay. I guess I'll grind them off and do something else but it'll have to wait until later. More concerned with other things right now. J. J. __________________ www.PATPARTS.com NEW Dual PS Pump bracket for LS Engines! - New LS Engine Head Mount Plates

09-17-2009, 07:47 AM	#174 (permalink)
patooyee www.patparts.com Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4821 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 8,679	Finished the removeable subframe. That's it before I go on vacation. When I get back I'll start on suspension. Pic of my modified stock fuel rails installed: I think this is an EGR solenoid. Can someone confirm? And will it stay or go when I cut my harness down? J. J. __________________ www.PATPARTS.com NEW Dual PS Pump bracket for LS Engines! - New LS Engine Head Mount Plates Last edited by patooyee; 09-17-2009 at 07:50 AM.

09-17-2009, 08:00 AM	#175 (permalink)
chris demartini Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Member # 1636 Location: 201 NJ Posts: 5,709	Looks like the Evap soleniod. It gets brown filed. __________________ [url]http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/misc-stuff-sale/1192938.html[/url]

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