My new build thread ...

[let it eat]

evap purge solenoid it is not needed

[BIGWOODY]

The Kevco pan or at least the baffle kit is essential if you plan on standing it up for more than a few seconds. The Kevco pan fixed all my oiling problems after destroying a motor, never had a need for an accumulator.

[patooyee]

FYI, I assume the baffle kit that Twisted Customs sell is the Kevko baffle kit and Kevko does not make that anymore. They will be taking it off their website soon.

J. J.

[chris demartini]

Is the one PSC sells the kevco baffle kit too?

[patooyee]

I don't know. I assumed that since Twsited seems to be a Kevko dealer that the baffle kit everyone spoke of was this:



I could be wrong though.

What you posted does not appear to be the above though. Also what you posted is on psc's homepage but nowhere else on their site that I can find ...

J. J.

[xr8ed]

niether one of those kits looks like it works as good as the trap door baffels in the actual kevco pans.

For a hair more $$, you could sell your stock pan, and buy the kevco already done, better baffles, and ready to go, with more clearance to boot. The only drawback, if you can call it one, is the filter must be remote mounted, but that only increases your capacity, and will give better filtration. The stock size filter is TINY.

[patooyee]

I really question the importantce of a Kevko pan with an accumulator. What the Kevko get that stock doesn't? The internal baffle, that's about it, right? When all the oil in the engine is at the top of the engine baffles don't do anything. That's where the accumulator is so important. But the accumulator will do what the baffles are suppossed to do anyway. So what, the Kevko's baffles just give the accumulator another second or two of time to recover before it needs to release its charge again? That's it? Seems like the accumulator would go a lot further toward protection than some trap doors. If you have no oil pressure the door gives you 1 quart. The accumulator gives you 3. Basically the trap doors are just a small built-in accumulator only without air pressure forcing the fluid out.

J. J.

[xr8ed]

I have the pan and the accusump. All they do is buy you more time. How much time do you want? The kevco buys you one more quart before the accusump kicks in, then it also buys you, atleast in my case, 3" more clearance under the pan.

I figured i could use all the time i can get, and with a spendy engine, it's just adding more insurance coverage.

[patooyee]

Hell, if you were really super-worried about it you could run multiple accumulators couldn't you? A Kevko pan is more than a 3-quart accumulator. I would think having that pressurized oil in waiting would be money better spent than on some tinfoil baffles in your oil pan. How badass would having 6 quarts of accumulator oil be? Or 9? Or 12?

J. J.

[BIGWOODY]

You're over thinking it.....with a stock pan, front end up in the air/leaned to either side etc..,I lost oil pressure very quickly (like 30 seconds). With the Kevko pan and pick up I can be in the same position and never lose oil pressure. The oil is returned and kept around the pick-up, not rushing to the rear/side of the pan as with the stock one. Theorize all you want I'm just telling you what works. The only position I've yet to see it work well in is upside down. Generally when all four tires are in "dead cockroach" position it's time to shut it down anyway.

[patooyee]

I appreciate your input so please don't think I am disagreeing with you. I am just one of those guys who has to understand something before he will blindly spend money or do ANYTHING to fix it. Its why I build my own shit instead of buy, its why I don't send my computer off to a computer place when it breaks, its what makes me tick. There never has been and never will be anything on a buggy that I own that I don't understand to the point that I couldn't fix it to get home. There isn't anything that I've ever spent money on without first understanding why it is I am spending that money. If you don't care to participate in the theory that is fine. But please understand that my continuation of the discussion is to help my understanding and not to disagree with you. That being said ...

In about 10 years of wheeling a Gen1 engine I lost oil pressure due to angularity maybe 4 times and none of them were ever angles up, they were ALWAYS angles with the front end pointing down.

Its just a sump in a pan, its nothing magical in an LS engine. A Gen1 sump is not an oil magnet and a Gen4 sump is not allergic to oil. Put both engines on the same angle with the same amount of oil in them and both sumps should draw in oil equally. What you're saying is that there is something about the LS that makes it loose oil pressure due to angularity more easily than a Gen1 and I don't buy it.

What I do buy is that a Gen IV may be more prone to damage as a result of low oil pressure and may return oil less efficiently to the pan than a GenI. The engines don't get burnt up from running at an angle. They get burnt up from the resultant lack of oil pressure from running at an angle at which the sump can no longer pick up oil. The angle at which they loose the ability to pick up oil should only vary by the shape of the pan. In this case both pans are shaped roughly the same.

So if you have a theory as to why oil at a 70* slope will go into a GenI sump but not a GenIV I would like to hear it.

Or maybe you are saying that you run your rig at more extreme angles for longer periods of time than me which is also possible.

Also, what oil pan were you running when you say you lost pressure in 30 seconds and destroyed your engine?

J. J.

[BamaSahara]

I witnessed Greg's motor loss at Windrock and it was at the entrace to Rail Trail. No other rigs in the group had issues with oiling and we all tried the same line. The obstacle pitches you hard to the pass side and honestly doesn't look like a spot you would kill your motor (see pic). It is obvious that you meticulously research everything to no end. I don't have a Gen IV motor and don't research them like you, but the one thing I have heard about the LS motor is to make sure you addess the oil starvation issue on incline. If I bought a high dollar LS motor I would put the Kevco pan and probably and oil accumulator on it to save my investment. For piece of mind more than anything else.

This is just a few seconds before Greg blew the motor. I believe he was running a stock pan at the time.

[patooyee]

That pic confirms one portion of my theory combined with a known fact that the ls engines can pump oil to the top faster than they can return it to the bottom. It looks like he was pretty good on the throttle there and easily could have pumped a lot of his oil to the top. The problem would be exacerbated by having a shallow, low-capacity stock f-body pan. In addition, when oil is in the top of an engine, it flows back down faster when there is more oil loaded up there. With very little oil in the stock f-body resevoir the back-up oil required to flood the top of the engine and force oil on top of oil back down is just not there resulting in a loss of pressure and damage to engine. All it takes to make one think, "this system doesn't pick up oil at angles" is to be on an angle whilst on the throttle which is very common in what we do.

I have no problem spending $400 on an oil pan. (Although I prefer not to have a remote oil filter just due to the fact that my engine bay already looks like a hose company exploded there.) I do have an issue spending it when it doesn't address the real issue though.

I have a buddy who burnt his LS engine up due to oil starvation in less than a minute drag racing his buggy on flat pavement. That is another example that helps lead me to my theory.

J. J.

[tw89yj]

Greg was farther up, with his rear driver side tire on the ledge when he lost oil pressure.

In my experience, I can drop into lower damnation at harlan while maintaining 25-30 lbs of oil pressure with the kevco pan. I didn't even chance running my 6.0 without this pan.

[patooyee]

Dropping down into something is a no-brainer as oil will naturally slosh as far away from the pick at that point as possible. But out of curiosity did you ever TRY that drop before the Kevko?

J. J.

[tw89yj]

Originally Posted by patooyee

Dropping down into something is a no-brainer as oil will naturally slosh as far away from the pick at that point as possible. But out of curiosity did you ever TRY that drop before the Kevko?

J. J.

No, I put the pan on before I ever ran the motor.

[snappy1978]

Originally Posted by tw89yj

No, I put the pan on before I ever ran the motor.

I've seen 3 or 4 strave out and nuke a motor, I'm in the research stages on a 3800 motor setup. After wheeling and building my own buggy, I would not risk it. I'm on the fence on different things but if your motor bay is as tight as you say it'll be then do the math. One eng. pull/swap just time not replacement cost will cost you more than the pan would. Pirate is pretty good at telling what will not work, need to ask the question "Show me the alts to this setup?"

[kirbyiv]

Originally Posted by patooyee

Dropping down into something is a no-brainer as oil will naturally slosh as far away from the pick at that point as possible. But out of curiosity did you ever TRY that drop before the Kevko?

J. J.

Im runnin a stock lq4 (out of an 06 van) pan with no issues so far. That is not to say I wont, but the past 4 trips I have been through steep downs, ups and nearly on my side and never once went below 30 lbs. Ill keep my fingers crossed but I'm thinkin it will be okay

[xr8ed]

Originally Posted by kirbyiv

Ill keep my fingers crossed but I'm thinkin it will be okay

only time will tell. Everyone i know is running atleast the pan or the accumulator or both.

[redneckengineered]

JJ, FWIW, I asked Woodlee these same questions when I got my Mast motor. I basically had my wallet out ready to buy the Kevco because of pirate. He said I didn't need the Kevco and that I would be fine with with the stock truck pan and an accumulator. He runs a 3 quart on his buggy and he put a 1.5 quart on mine for simplicity. As you probably know I wheel Aetna pretty much every weekend my shit wagon isn't broke and there are some hills there No oil pressure problems thusfar

You are on the right track. An accumulator should be the very first thing you buy to protect that motor. I would do that first over a magic oil pan any day of the week. If/when you do not think that is enough splurge for the Kevco but I doubt you ever will. I think a lot of the oiling issues are coming from dudes running the car pans and whatnot for clearance in which case you are asking for it.

[Landslide]

Originally Posted by redneckengineered

JJ, FWIW, I asked Woodlee these same questions when I got my Mast motor. I basically had my wallet out ready to buy the Kevco because of pirate. He said I didn't need the Kevco and that I would be fine with with the stock truck pan and an accumulator. He runs a 3 quart on his buggy and he put a 1.5 quart on mine for simplicity. As you probably know I wheel Aetna pretty much every weekend my shit wagon isn't broke and there are some hills there No oil pressure problems thusfar

You are on the right track. An accumulator should be the very first thing you buy to protect that motor. I would do that first over a magic oil pan any day of the week. If/when you do not think that is enough splurge for the Kevco but I doubt you ever will. I think a lot of the oiling issues are coming from dudes running the car pans and whatnot for clearance in which case you are asking for it.

Just great, I swapped out my truck pan for a F-body pan and now you post this up and I no longer have the truck pan I took off

I planned on running a accumulator and a large low oil pressure indicator light along with a gauge.

[NWFLYJ]

Originally Posted by patooyee

with a known fact that the ls engines can pump oil to the top faster than they can return it to the bottom. It looks like he was pretty good on the throttle there and easily could have pumped a lot of his oil to the top.

J. J.

What about creating a external path for the oil to return to the sump from the rocker covers, (not in lieu of the other solutions mentioned) Mark

[BIGWOODY]

YouTube - Greg Stone killing an LS1

Do what you want...I'm not an internet preacher, again, I'm telling you what works. Not what I think works, or someone told me works, or even what I sat around smoking green imagining what might work...but what really works.

[patooyee]

I've been getting very little work done lately as I took a well-deserved and long-awaited cruise to Grand Cayman and Cozumel. I asked my g/f to marry me while we were on the ship and she said yes so I guess now she's my fiance! Here's what could have been a completed buggy. Her reaction was worth it though:



But now that I'm back I couldn't wait to get back to work and started some suspension work. I knew space in the front was going to be close and am working out how to get the space that I need. The driveshaft runs up alongside the engine and I am having clearance issues with my water pump neck. (Where you see the t-stat housing in this pic.) I am thinking about flipping the t-stat housing 180* and re-routing the belt to make the space that I need. The blue belt is how it is in factory form and I am thinking of adding another idler pulley (black circle) and routing the belt the way you see in red. Anyone see any issue with this?



J. J.

[78stepsideUAK10]

Wouldn't the water pump be running backwards?