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Old 05-05-2010, 01:39 PM   #351 (permalink)
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Higher than usual or not i like the roofline. The whole thing still looks like its a great size.

Thanks for the updates, keep it up JR.
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:55 PM   #352 (permalink)
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Huge props JR, that is looking great!
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Old 05-05-2010, 05:12 PM   #353 (permalink)
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JR how does the angled seating affect your vision and equilibrium when going fast. Slow moonbuggys might not bring out the effect becuse of the speed.
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:04 PM   #354 (permalink)
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.
You copy cat. My motor was red before yours was.

I am enjoying this build more and more. Great work!
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:27 PM   #355 (permalink)
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JR how does the angled seating affect your vision and equilibrium when going fast. Slow moonbuggys might not bring out the effect becuse of the speed.
Triaged was telling me that the Dodge Viper has canted seats to get around the trans tunnel.
I think it will be fine, it's only 6 deg. Heck, I've driven down the road many times with my rear steering not straight and hardly noticed.

Anyway, it's the gal we're dancing with so Jeff had better get used to it!
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:19 AM   #356 (permalink)
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More production vehicles that you'd think have the seats angled slightly. They arent 6 degrees but they are still more than a degree.
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Old 05-06-2010, 06:39 AM   #357 (permalink)
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I find it a great shame people chose to copy others ideas and sell them for commercial gain, without even trying to hide the fact they have done it! Using it for inspiration! sure! we all do that all through our lives, but pure copying? I feel very saddened every time I hear or see it! You build is an inspiration to us all JR, sadly some take "inspiration" a little far!

Keep up the great work! It surely is one of the nicest builds of any sort anywhere on the web!

Lara.
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Old 05-06-2010, 08:43 AM   #358 (permalink)
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^ ^ Thanks Lara,

I need to do a follow up on the whole copying issue.

After reading this thread, Ian from Extreme pm'd me saying that he had taken pictures of Tony Vanillo's pro 2 truck and had sent them to Ballistic (with Tony's permission) to be replicated. Ballistic did their own Solid Works designing from the picture and the subsequent arms were built.

Dan and I both agreed that engineers sometime think a like and the end results can sometimes turn out to be the same. Do they look the same? yes (except for some small important, details that Dan picked up on). Are they copied? Ian claims they are not and his explanation is more than plausible.
Does it matter? No, we didn't have any sort of rights to the control arm and anyway, I'm over it (Dan's almost over it )

I looked at Tony Vanillo's pro 2 truck on line and like most Pro 2 trucks, the bypass is on the arm and the C/O is on the axle (or there a bouts, I couldn't get a detailed view) It certainly doesn't have the same configuration as the arm on the UFO, but the configuration was probably adjusted when Ballistic did their model.

As far as the seat sliders, I must have been on crack when I thought they were copied. It has been done many times before. I am owning up to this.

Like I said in an earlier post, I will be more careful what I post, especially intellectual property like Solid Works drawings. Those drawings can get expensive, just ask Jeff.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:06 AM   #359 (permalink)
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Great looking fabrication. Sorry that stuff happened to you, keep up the good work.
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:19 PM   #360 (permalink)
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JR how does the angled seating affect your vision and equilibrium when going fast.
Every one of our rigs, has seats canted for best and safest fit. Some are turned as much as 10 degrees. You don't notice it at all, even at speed.
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:53 PM   #361 (permalink)
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Every one of our rigs, has seats canted for best and safest fit. Some are turned as much as 10 degrees. You don't notice it at all, even at speed.
I'd have to agree with this. Skewed seating position is noticeable for about the first five minutes that you're in a rig. After that, unless it's physically uncomfortable, it pretty much goes away from being relevant. That said, legs spread straddling the transmission (BTDT) is very difficult to make comfortable for any length of time.

My current seats are square to the chassis, but my seating position is such that the occupants' feet are outboard of center. Anybody who's driven my car, has put their right foot on my firewall first time in, and gotten confused on how to use the gas and the brake with as far left as they are. The footwell on that side is a whopping 14" wide; the brake pedal centerline is 5" from the tubework, and the gas pedal centerline is 5" from the brake pedal centerline.

None of this is anywhere near the issue that people think it will be, but objects in the footwell (my battery used to be my passenger footrest, and it was poorly positioned to be that) or cabin (I also had a knee knocker dash bar) will make themselves obvious all day. The exposed bars in the passenger side door panel also made themselves apparent. I couldn't get rid of them, so I did a lot of padding in that area to make them less unpleasant to bump against.
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:13 PM   #362 (permalink)
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:47 PM   #363 (permalink)
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I love the idea of more straight tubes and less bends. It just looks stronger and looks ready to be dumped at 120, besides the fact that straight tube is stronger. Lovin it, chassis is coming together very nicely.

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Old 05-12-2010, 02:10 PM   #364 (permalink)
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Question
im gathering information for an IFS build.

Anyone want to comment on why a 35spline 935/935 300m isn't strong enough for the outer CV? The class 1 rear trailing arm 4x4 truck being built on Race-desert.com is using only 935 front cvs but its a 2wd truck and will see no rocks and likely wont have 39" tires so 935's likely ok??. Im inclined to the Proam series 30 hub like shannon uses because it is so strong but It could save $$$$ if a 935 (series 21) would work

Also it would seem that the RCV d60 cvs are less ideal because they are not an inboard (floater)design like the series 30 and better floater 935's that have the cv several inches more outboard vs a microstub (or rcv d60) so as to give more travel for the same track width. Also the floater CV axles will let the uniballs sit out farther and decrease scrub issues. That said the Kirby and deremo trucks seem to both kick ass using those RCV d60 cvs.

Perhaps this has been discussed> I have searches the hell out of pirate and cant find anything.

It needs to be discussed. These issues seem to matter in the desert trucks/buggies but matter even more with a steering IFS

here is a "floater" "midboard" 934 cv. note how close the cv is in relation the rotor
http://www.gear-one.com/Htmls/super_hubs.html

here is a "microstub" or stub axle type hub (like the kirby and deremo truck use. note how this set up sacrafices some travel as the cv cant sit as far out from the midline as the floater design
http://www.gear-one.com/Htmls/micro_stubs.html

Also JR. in the bling pics you posted of the $15000 parts I see a stub shaft (microstub) CV. This is not the series 30 outer part is it? are you sure that truck u are building has series 30 hubs????

Dusty

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Old 05-12-2010, 05:29 PM   #365 (permalink)
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That looks like FUN!

My buggy has taken big hits on the B pillar and I see no triangulation X behind your seats. Was it determined to not be needed?
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:31 PM   #366 (permalink)
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I’ve been studying all the pictures thoroughly and remembering all the pictures of Willyswanter’s IFS Buggy I sent JR; I have determined that JR has copied just about everything from Willyswanter’s Buggy except for the chassis, engine placement, steering, suspension components, rear axle, wheels & tires, etc.; so JR, now what do you have to say for yourself. I’m 100% sure you copied the idea of 2 seats, Chevy engine, transfer case and 4 wheel drive.

I'll see you and Jeff very soon; awesome build JR!

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Old 05-12-2010, 10:22 PM   #367 (permalink)
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Also JR. in the bling pics you posted of the $15000 parts I see a stub shaft (microstub) CV. This is not the series 30 outer part is it? are you sure that truck u are building has series 30 hubs????
Dusty
Yes, Dusty, they are series 30 hubs made of 300m as will as the stubs in the center section.
I'm sure for what you are building the 935s and other parts you plan to use will be fine as others have had success with them.

We chose the 30's to to help insure confidence with a LS7 powered car in low range while possibly backing out of a hole with the front tire wedged in a rock.
Anything less than a 30, and I might cringe a bit

Quote:
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That looks like FUN!

My buggy has taken big hits on the B pillar and I see no triangulation X behind your seats. Was it determined to not be needed?
It's not done (see the screen shot below). The "W" is in, I just don't have pix to show.

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I’ve been studying all the pictures thoroughly...
Ah, come on Ken, I'm trying to move past the whole copping issue.
Se ya soon!
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:24 PM   #368 (permalink)
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Thats looking good, can't wait to see it finished!
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Old 05-13-2010, 06:14 AM   #369 (permalink)
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^ ^ Thanks Lara,

I need to do a follow up on the whole copying issue.

After reading this thread, Ian from Extreme pm'd me saying that he had taken pictures of Tony Vanillo's pro 2 truck and had sent them to Ballistic (with Tony's permission) to be replicated. Ballistic did their own Solid Works designing from the picture and the subsequent arms were built.
How about heading over to our forum and retracting your damaging and preconceived statements there as well?

I understand how at first sight things can seem one way, but honestly we could care less about a set of your trailing arms. They are NOT on our webpage for sale, have not been, nor will they be. They were posted under an engineering and manufacturing thread where my engineer explained that A CUSTOMER asked us to produce a set using specific guidelines and we were able to do so.

Just take a look in last months CRAWL to find out who takes direct credit for the design, and who takes credit for manufacturing the arms.

Jeff
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:32 AM   #370 (permalink)
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Yes, Dusty, they are series 30 hubs made of 300m as will as the stubs in the center section.
I'm sure for what you are building the 935s and other parts you plan to use will be fine as others have had success with them.

We chose the 30's to to help insure confidence with a LS7 powered car in low range while possibly backing out of a hole with the front tire wedged in a rock.
Anything less than a 30, and I might cringe a bit
I dont know much about desert racing but it bothers me that none of the ifs rock machines have used 935 cvs at the outers-i dont want to be the guy that breaks. But the proam stuff is just so pricy even if it is quality. last night I purchased a set of 30 series builder hubs from Mckenzies performance. the hubs are well respected on forums for what thats worth
http://www.mckenzies.com/
the non plunging set with backing plates and series 30 cvs came to $5000. im going to use basic 4 piston willwoods making the total over $3000 less than the Proam part. Just letting people know there is another option. Also I picked up a new dutchman 9" housing with 35sp 2 piece 935 stubs for $1250.

Point being you can build the IFS front end beefy for not much more than a spidertrax axle. if you know how to build it yourself----but of course that last part is the problem

Dusty

Last edited by laproscopic; 05-13-2010 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:02 AM   #371 (permalink)
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How about heading over to our forum and retracting your damaging and preconceived statements there as well?

I understand how at first sight things can seem one way, but honestly we could care less about a set of your trailing arms. They are NOT on our webpage for sale, have not been, nor will they be. They were posted under an engineering and manufacturing thread where my engineer explained that A CUSTOMER asked us to produce a set using specific guidelines and we were able to do so.

Just take a look in last months CRAWL to find out who takes direct credit for the design, and who takes credit for manufacturing the arms.

Jeff
I posted one line in your forum and in that line the word "thieves" was used.
I don't have enough power to damage anyone's reputation with one word or even one sentence.
If that one word damaged your reputation, then maybe you guys are insecure?
You also forgot the rest of the quote, Jeff:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR View Post
I looked at Tony Vanillo's pro 2 truck on line and like most Pro 2 trucks, the bypass is on the arm and the C/O is on the axle (or there a bouts, I couldn't get a detailed view) It certainly doesn't have the same configuration as the arm on the UFO, but the configuration was probably adjusted when Ballistic did their model.
The truth is the arms you built are way more similar to the arms Dan designed than that of Tony's.
At this point I could care less where you got the idea or picture or who did the SW model, I've moved on. I tried to give the benefit of the doubt and leave Ballistic a way out.
All I know is that Dan designed the control arms we are using.
We were sending emails back in forth while it was in progress. He even did a stress analysis on it and emailed a screen shot over which I posted on this thread. It was only up for a day as Dan said it was giving away too much information and asked me remove it. NOW I know what he is talking about. To bad you didn't get to see it, or did you?

John
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:09 AM   #372 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laproscopic View Post
Question
im gathering information for an IFS build.

Anyone want to comment on why a 35spline 935/935 300m isn't strong enough for the outer CV? The class 1 rear trailing arm 4x4 truck being built on Race-desert.com is using only 935 front cvs but its a 2wd truck and will see no rocks and likely wont have 39" tires so 935's likely ok??. Im inclined to the Proam series 30 hub like shannon uses because it is so strong but It could save $$$$ if a 935 (series 21) would work

Also it would seem that the RCV d60 cvs are less ideal because they are not an inboard (floater)design like the series 30 and better floater 935's that have the cv several inches more outboard vs a microstub (or rcv d60) so as to give more travel for the same track width. Also the floater CV axles will let the uniballs sit out farther and decrease scrub issues. That said the Kirby and deremo trucks seem to both kick ass using those RCV d60 cvs.

Perhaps this has been discussed> I have searches the hell out of pirate and cant find anything.

It needs to be discussed. These issues seem to matter in the desert trucks/buggies but matter even more with a steering IFS

here is a "floater" "midboard" 934 cv. note how close the cv is in relation the rotor
http://www.gear-one.com/Htmls/super_hubs.html

here is a "microstub" or stub axle type hub (like the kirby and deremo truck use. note how this set up sacrafices some travel as the cv cant sit as far out from the midline as the floater design
http://www.gear-one.com/Htmls/micro_stubs.html

Also JR. in the bling pics you posted of the $15000 parts I see a stub shaft (microstub) CV. This is not the series 30 outer part is it? are you sure that truck u are building has series 30 hubs????

Dusty
I'm using a 934 inboard CV with RCV's chevy style Pro 4 outer. Brian Kirby built the front end to cause minimal plunge that the 934 handles without a problem. We have 2000 miles of rocks and desert on the same CV's with zero issues. 18.5" of front travel.
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:25 AM   #373 (permalink)
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I'm using a 934 inboard CV with RCV's chevy style Pro 4 outer. Brian Kirby built the front end to cause minimal plunge that the 934 handles without a problem. We have 2000 miles of rocks and desert on the same CV's with zero issues. 18.5" of front travel.
i have seen the videos and have read your build multiple times. Such a beautiful machine. Fab is exceptional. Im glad your machine is doing so well

Having to handle turning and cycling dutties puts a lot on that outer cv. By design I immagine the RCV/spidertrack assembly on your truck has ZERO plunge. I assume the series 30 cv's used on Shannons trucks and JR's build are non plunging at the outers and plunging at the diff. I wish I knew for sure....anyone know....JR?

the Kirby built machine has plunging cv's at the diff right?
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:35 AM   #374 (permalink)
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plunge. I assume the series 30 cv's used on Shannons trucks and JR's build are non plunging at the outers and plunging at the diff. I wish I knew for sure....anyone know....JR?
Yes, the plunging cv is at the differential.
I'm not pushing anyone to use the parts we use or advocating their superiority.
It's just the parts we chose to use.
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:38 PM   #375 (permalink)
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Yes, the plunging cv is at the differential.
I'm not pushing anyone to use the parts we use or advocating their superiority.
It's just the parts we chose to use.
They are superior. unfortunatly you get what you pay for.

JR could you perhaps share what size bolt hole and shank are used on those upper heims holding the upper a-arms to your chassis?

what about the uniballs? diameter of ball and bolt?

I need to order up those parts.

Last edited by laproscopic; 05-13-2010 at 02:40 PM.
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