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Old 12-18-2009, 11:26 AM   #1 (permalink)
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small lightweight AWD, IFS differential with 2.00-3.00 ratio?

I am building a buggy for my boys and I am using a 3cly metro motor and automatic transaxle. I found out I can save 10" in chassis length by running the motor sideways (like in the metro from the factory) instead of front to back. I was going to use a geo tracker front IFS diff that would work great but the 3.73 ratio really makes the crawl ratio too low. SO...

What I am looking for is possibly a rear axle out of a AWD front wheel drive car that may have a 2.50 or 3.00 ratio. I was thinking maybe something like a CRV or Escape or subaru? I don't want anything big or heavy but will entertain any of your ideas. I don't know anything about this style of car. Thanks, Jake
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:42 AM   #2 (permalink)
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My dad just pulled one out of an awd astro van. May want to check that out I will find out the ratio if that helps, or you could call a chevy parts counter and ask for the gear set for one, and let them give you the ratios. I like to use GM as a reference kinda like a library, since we taxpayers own it now.

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Old 12-18-2009, 12:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The subarus are a 3.9 or 4.1. They are narrow cv to cv and are very strong. You can weld up the diff easy. They were the best route for the cal poly 1/4 scale tractor. We attached the cv to warn hubs and cut down and welded the axle shaft to length. Those parts have been reused for the last 6+ years. Subaru parts were much easier to find.
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Old 12-18-2009, 12:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Corvete IIRC used a dana 44 center in the indepent rear and you can get 2:73's from a cj
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Old 12-18-2009, 12:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The Metro, Suzuki Swift, and Subaru Justy were all the same thing right?

My thinking out of my arse has me fairly certain that the drive train from an AWD Justy would work with the Metro motor you already have. I don't have a clue about gear ratios though.

Just an idea.


Edit: this I assume would require you to use the Justy transmission with the AWD "transfer case" Or you might be able to get the transfer case to bolt to the auto trans and just use the Justy CV shaft for whatever side the transfer case is on.


I've since learned this probably wouldn't work, since the EF10 and EF12 3 cylinders the US versions of the Justy used were Subaru engines, unlike the Suzuki engines in the other similar models. They all became pretty much the same around '95, but '94 was the last year for the Justy in the US.


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Old 12-18-2009, 12:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Rick View Post
My dad just pulled one out of an awd astro van. May want to check that out I will find out the ratio if that helps, or you could call a chevy parts counter and ask for the gear set for one, and let them give you the ratios. I like to use GM as a reference kinda like a library, since we taxpayers own it now.

Rick.
Yeah I called a buddy who works parts at GM dealer to try and find out what the ratio of my transaxle was for my geo and he couldn't tell ma anything but the part number...


Quote:
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The subarus are a 3.9 or 4.1. They are narrow cv to cv and are very strong. You can weld up the diff easy. They were the best route for the cal poly 1/4 scale tractor. We attached the cv to warn hubs and cut down and welded the axle shaft to length. Those parts have been reused for the last 6+ years. Subaru parts were much easier to find.
Yeah so in my research so far it appears the rear is powered off of the pinion of the transaxle so it would have the same ratio as the trans. The pinioon is also really long on most of these diffs.

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Corvete IIRC used a dana 44 center in the indepent rear and you can get 2:73's from a cj
Yeah that would work great. It's alot bigger than what I was looking for but the gear ratio would be perfect.

Maybe I need to be looking at more IFS front diffs like the tracker. but I can't think of a vehicle that would offer a small diff and a high ratio...
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Old 12-18-2009, 12:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
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check out older BMW's they had IRS and all aluminum thirds. Most are around 3:1
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Old 12-18-2009, 01:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks chet. that is a good source. I found a 328i diff on ebay that has 2.93 ratio. I will keep an eye out for one of those on craigslist or the pick and pull.
Jake
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Old 12-18-2009, 01:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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AMC Eagle?
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Old 12-18-2009, 02:12 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Thunderbird/ cougar. 8.8 IFS diff... I have one if you want to pay for shipping...

I THINK it has 3.08 or 2.73 gears.
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Old 12-18-2009, 02:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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There we go! very similar to the corvette stuff only not sought after....
Send me a PM on the axle you have. Thanks, Jake
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:00 PM   #12 (permalink)
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HMMWV diff comes with 2.56, 2.72, 3.08 full IFS and 10k axle shafts are cheap as dirt. Comes with Torsen T-1 4:1 limited slip or you can get E-Lockers, or weld it.
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Jake,
are you doing this like Rick deremo's 2 seat moon buggy, engine transverse with factory transaxle welded and running the shaft over to another diff to serve as your "transfer case". If so, the best thing to do there is to take the gearing out of the geo transaxle. rick took the shafts that make the gearing (assuming it isn't a ring and pinion, but more like planets) and made them all 1 so it was a 1:1 and then your second diff made your tcase gearing.
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
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AMC Eagle?
Eagle is a D30, laid out similar to the track/kick and GM truck diffs.

Available with 2.35:1, (most common) and 2.53:1, 2.72:1, 3.08:1 (next most common), and 3.54:1.

Bmw as mentioned. Mercedes 300D turbo, 300SD, and gas cars would also have a small (300D, 300SD) diff with 3.08's or big (big body gas cars) with 2.47's.

The 8.8 Ford independent also has a little brother 7.5 independent that is usually REALLY cheap to buy, as far as independent rears goes.

If you want diff's in the center, then the BMW/Mercedes/Ford is probably the best bet.

If you want offset diffs, then the S10/Eagle are probably what you want to look at.
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I am doing the same thing as Rick's old one. I will look into the transmission breakdown and see if there is a way to remove the reduction. I believe it is a GM 140 trans. The lack of an OD doesn't help at all for top speed. Not that I need much. a 2.73 or 3.07 ratio would be prefect on paper.
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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smaller is better. What was the 7.5 ford used in?
Thanks for all the great ideas guys!
Jake
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Sent you a PM... the one I have MIGHT be a 7.5... it's been a LONG time since I looked at it.
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:47 PM   #18 (permalink)
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smaller is better. What was the 7.5 ford used in?
Thanks for all the great ideas guys!
Jake
I am no expert, but I am familiar with them from a couple 'Locost' builder forums.

IIRC the 7.5 IRS is in V6 t-birds/cougars/later mustangs and the 8.8 IRS is in the V8 ones.
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:54 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Thanks chet. that is a good source. I found a 328i diff on ebay that has 2.93 ratio. I will keep an eye out for one of those on craigslist or the pick and pull.
Jake
E30 style 3-series bmws are dime-a-dozen at any local pick-n-pull (at least, out here on the Left Coast), and you can get some really good stuff in them. However, that 3rd member is not too easy to get out. Bring metric tools and a lot of patience. Plus side: look for one out of a 325is or 5-series 530i or 535i. It'll be a 3.73, but it'll also be a nice LSD unit. You can put the 2.92 gears in the LSD diff. The housings are slightly different between the 3 and 5 series, but the internals are identical.

Minus side: The rear CV axles are practically a press-fit into the wheel hubs and are a real bitch to remove from the hubs, and even harder to get back in. Make sure you get the whole assembly. The hub bearings are not horribly expensive, but can be hard to find, and are hard to install.
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Old 12-18-2009, 07:08 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Thanks again guys for all the great ideas. I think the t-bird diff will meet my needs as far as cheap and easy to find. The 8.8 seems like a good idea for the new rage of IFS go fast cars being built too... JAke
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Old 12-19-2009, 06:58 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stjames151 View Post
HMMWV diff comes with 2.56, 2.72, 3.08 full IFS and 10k axle shafts are cheap as dirt. Comes with Torsen T-1 4:1 limited slip or you can get E-Lockers, or weld it.
Cheap as dirt? HMm
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Old 12-25-2009, 07:16 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I just remembered that the newer EXPLORERS also have IRS, and I am pretty sure it's an 8.8!
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Old 12-25-2009, 12:55 PM   #23 (permalink)
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If you want to add some factor, get a Mazda Miata diff
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Old 12-25-2009, 05:16 PM   #24 (permalink)
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You could always go with a TTB chunk out of any of the 80's and newr ford pickups, dana 50, 44, or the little 30 in the rangers and bronco 2's, self sealed unit once you put a cover on it.
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Old 12-26-2009, 05:24 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I'm no help but I'm interested to see what you come up with
good luck jake, post some pics
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