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Old 01-19-2010, 08:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
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4488 re-build for KOH10 and beyond

KOH09 was relatively trouble free for us, we just lost a water pump gasket that falls in the "stuff happens" catagory and all other systems were fine.
But some more power would be nice and the cooling system worked well for the stock TBI 350 but with more power????

The we hit V2R and found some serious issues:
Water cooling wasn't enough
Power wasn't enough
Front shocks came up short to the point we had to drive pretty careful on the front end most of the time.
Steering is a bit quick
Handling is OK but could be better, mostly body roll in corners
A lot of these problems could be tuned and made way better like the front shock package that hasn't been through very many iterations so far but you can't fix lack of power and cooling with tuning so....

we talked to Griffin and got one of these:

We also put the 32 gallon fuel cell under it to replace the 22 gal cell that was the primary for the last 6 years or so. Capacity not really necessary for KOH but definitely so for longer races.
You can't really tell in the pics but the bypass shock mount in the rear was just stuck on there in the only place it would function and was a pretty ugly system. Somehow, after the race it seemed that the only way to make the shocks work was to put them on the trailing arms. This is really brought about by the link layout on the rear with the uppers running straight ahead which lets us sink the cell pretty low but doesn't leave any room for a pair of shocks so it does make sense but it's a lot of extra work too.

It was also necessary to just cut the back of the car off since nothing was in the right place for the new configuration. It also gave us a chance to lay out a new spare tire location for the new hotness, the comp 42 Kevlar MTR. It's still huge on the back of the car but that's the way big tires are I guess.

Some shots of the trailing arms in construction:


You can also note some weights, you can guess what those are.

We looked at several different options for the motor like a stompy 406 gen1, using parts of my old 383 that are still around or just working on what we had and kept running into the need for a LOT of money in injection and a 6.0L started looking really good. We got with Kevin at Pacific Fab and he hooked us up with a '07 motor with about 15K miles on it along with his plug and play harness. Here's the old about to come out with the 6.0L waiting:


And here's the new motor all snuggled in:

The new structual nomex construction paper ultralight firewall is a testament to the slight yet very important dimensional differences between the gen1 and gen3 motors.

Solving the front shock problem basically came down to adding more shock. We might have been able to tune the shock and bumpstop in to do the job but we knew that a bypass shock up there would fix the issues so that's what we did. We've been working back and forth a LOT with King to get it all set up, especially since we didn't do it easy. The 16" coilover we had in the back now has a piggyback reservoir and is in the front with a new 16" 3 tube bypass. The 14" coilover from the front is now leveraged on the trailing arm in the rear with the bypass that we installed before V2R. The coilovers went back to King for service which is awesome since I have a lot of other stuff I can work on without tearing down the entire mess here.
This is in progress but you get the pic on the new mounts:




I need to get back to building something or sleeping so that's all for now, maybe I can get some updated pics going, we're a lot farther along than it looks and we're still not close enough to ready. Last year this time we were taking it apart for the 2nd time!
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KOH '13 1st ever DNF But we were hauling ass before and after it broke.
KOH '12 12th overall
KOH11 28th. It's a finish!
KOH11 Sportsmanship Award.

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Old 01-19-2010, 09:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Lookin good. Can't wait to see it out there. How much did that thing weigh before? What are you going to do to combat body roll?
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Good luck this year. I quess we won't see you out pre running early.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Very nice can't wait to see you guy's kick some ass.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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We weighed the car after V2R and came in between 5500 and 5600#. That's with all 54 gal of fuel, both guys, tools, spares, etc. Basically starting line weight. KOH09 was about 5300. We don't really plan to drop any weight with the changes since the motor's not that much lighter and the rest of the stuff we're adding is heavy too. I'm hoping we go sideways around that 5300 mark. I guess we do lose some weight since the air bumps are gone and they were not light and some misc. heavy details like the old steel sheet radiator fan mount/shroud are now replaced with the griffin alum. stuff.

Body roll? It turns out the swaybar is going to be one of the most highly engineered parts on the current build. Making a bar live at the higher travel levels isn't a trivial job. I'm not done yet but I'm confident I can get something on there to at least get us a little better than before. Swaybar is only going on the rear at this point but we did raise the axle end panhard mount on the front so the roll center is a bit higher which will help balance it out.

We're also changing some very important ergonomic details like the heatshield that was riveted to the floorboard under the driver seat. It managed to raise several 1" plus diameter blisters on Brandon and I's left ass cheeks at V2R. It hurt to sit down for about a week.

I'd love to be there testing now. That part of this deal really sucks. But it will be really nice not burning our asses!
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KOH '12 12th overall
KOH11 28th. It's a finish!
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Looking pretty damn good so far, Stephen. Looks like you guys got bit by the race bug pretty hard hahahahah
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Looking good so far.

Just missing one thing... more pics
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:53 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:47 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Sweet. What tires are you guys going to run this year? Cant wait to see that thing with skins..
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Old 01-20-2010, 07:48 AM   #10 (permalink)
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We will try to get more pics. Things are a bit busy but we are getting there. Hopefully we will start putting another coat of paint on later today ( I mean at midnight) so the final assembly can begin.

Goodyear stepped up big for us this year so for KOH we will be on 42" Sticky MTRs, Desert stuff we will run a smaller tire.

Skins will be the same ones from Vegas To Reno. Even with the changes we only have to modify 4 panels and build two more. Wait that only leaves two untouched
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:06 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Looks great guys! Let me know if you guys need anything. Looking forward to the upcoming event.
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks Kevin

Can you turn the clock back a few months? I am sure as we start the final assembly process we will have a few questions for you from the engine end.


For further clarification
Since Stephen and I both Qualified for KOH we either had to drop a spot or find a car for one of us to drive. With that Pacific Fab has come on board to provide Stephen with a car to drive as well as help us out with our engine needs.
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:58 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I am glad you kept the chassis. One of my favorite looking rigs for sure.

Good luck guys! You are going to love the 6.0.
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:03 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Congratulations on the ride and support from Pac Fab.

Let's see more progress pics.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
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...Body roll? It turns out the swaybar is going to be one of the most highly engineered parts on the current build. Making a bar live at the higher travel levels isn't a trivial job. I'm not done yet but I'm confident I can get something on there to at least get us a little better than before...
How is that coming?
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
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That motor sure looks familiar, I think I got to stare at it in my rear view all the way out to UT last year
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:14 PM   #17 (permalink)
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How is that coming?
Don't ask 10lbs. of shit in a 1lb bag. Hopefully tonight we can get something figured out. If I can ever get out of my real job.

I just went from being out of work in three days to having a 5 mil. project that is two months behind schedule dumped on me. I guess the OT will be good but the ORD team will have to pick up the slack for me.

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That motor sure looks familiar, I think I got to stare at it in my rear view all the way out to UT last year
Thanks agian for that.
You going to be on the lakebed for KOH?
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:32 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Looks good! I've been thinking about mounting the rear shocks on the upper links like that.
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:49 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Looks good! I've been thinking about mounting the rear shocks on the upper links like that.
You mean instead of on the lower links like you already did? We're stealing some of your anti-rotation linkage ideas too. the shocks are on center on the arms but they still need to stay upright.

I'll try to snag some more pics tonight. Or find some good older ones to post. I noticed the shop door was open on one of the pics I put up last night so it was a taken a while ago. It's been above freezing a few days out of the last 6 weeks I think.
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KOH '13 1st ever DNF But we were hauling ass before and after it broke.
KOH '12 12th overall
KOH11 28th. It's a finish!
KOH11 Sportsmanship Award.

Friends & partners who helped: Offroad Design, Pacific Fab, King, Baja Designs, TrailReady, Amsoil, PSC, Tom Woods Driveshafts, Bighorn Graphics, Optima
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:01 PM   #20 (permalink)
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You mean instead of on the lower links like you already did? We're stealing some of your anti-rotation linkage ideas too. the shocks are on center on the arms but they still need to stay upright.

I'll try to snag some more pics tonight. Or find some good older ones to post. I noticed the shop door was open on one of the pics I put up last night so it was a taken a while ago. It's been above freezing a few days out of the last 6 weeks I think.
Not on my jeep but the buggy I'm building in my head and computer. Your link lay out with the triangulated lowers and strait uppers can have some real good handling benefits, also packaging with with the engine in the front and a back seat in the rear. One of the problem is where to put the shocks since there is a link and link bracket on top of the axle. I would have just put a bend in the upper arm to mount them below center line, especially since you dont have to worry about loosing ground clearance. You do get lower roll centers so an anti sway bar will be helpful.

Yeah I was wondering why the door was open, it should be pretty cold there this time of year.
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:19 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Damn, this thing is going to be even more badass than before. Needs more pictures though, being rushed is no excuse.
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Old 01-21-2010, 08:06 AM   #22 (permalink)
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...You going to be on the lakebed for KOH?
He had better be.

He is co driver for Pacific Fab
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Old 01-21-2010, 09:04 AM   #23 (permalink)
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He had better be.

He is co driver for Pacific Fab
Didn't know that.

I only sort of know who is cycling through my car at this point. Who is in the other car and when is beyond my ability to think about right now.
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:36 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Well if it means anything to ya we have Kevins truck covered as far as chase and pit duties.We have a top notch crew put together that is willing to do what ever is needed to keep the Pac Fab truck in the race

Somehow I got dubbed pit manager and will be doing chase and support duties with my station wagon

Cant wait!!
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:10 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Here's a few more, some new, some older still but cool

rear upper link arm on the scale with rod ends. Don't know if that's light or not, just going for strong. Can also see the Doug Thorley headers and pipes ready to finish weld. They're for a late model camaro and worked out just about right. They dumped right on the front driveshaft and the upper link arm but they have (had) really long collectors that we were able to cut off and send the right direction.


Headers on car. The price was pretty reasonable and they sent us pics of seveal different sets to help us pick out what to start with. Worked out great.


OG 14 on scale. That's hard to read but says 173#, fully braced and bracketed. Should come in a little over 400# complete. oink.


flexing it out to mock up the swaybar. It's going to work but we'll have to polish it nice. It's going to have a lot of stress on it when the axles fully articulated.


more of the same. Rear shock mounts came out really cool. Lots of time but really cool.


more shock mount:


And finally, some round black hotness.


















































wow, that could go a couple different ways

I think these are going to be fun. The DOT MTR/Kevlar did great for me on my K5, the comp version should be amazing.
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KOH '13 1st ever DNF But we were hauling ass before and after it broke.
KOH '12 12th overall
KOH11 28th. It's a finish!
KOH11 Sportsmanship Award.

Friends & partners who helped: Offroad Design, Pacific Fab, King, Baja Designs, TrailReady, Amsoil, PSC, Tom Woods Driveshafts, Bighorn Graphics, Optima
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