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Old 08-10-2010, 09:37 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Any issues with an L92 6.2 swap?

I found a wrecker with an L92 6.2L motor and I'm trying to work a deal on it.

Any hidden catches I should be aware of when it comes to putting one of these in a buggy? I was originally after an LQ9 6.0 motor but the idea of going all aluminum with a few more ponies is nice too

I've swapped other motors before and the drive-by-wire doesn't scare me. Anything else I should be aware of?

Most of what I'm seeing on Pirate is about 5.3 swaps and the occasional LQ9 or LS2. Haven't seen a writeup on an L92 yet.


FYI - It will be mated to a TH400/Atlas

Thanks!
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I have an L92 stroked to 7.0L in my buggy. You can look for the build Thread in here under Smiley Racing. They do make a sick amount of power I can assure you on that part

If you have any questions feel free to ask. I won't claim to be an expert but I've found a few things that don't work and some that do.

The most important decision you need to make is what oil pan you are going to run and how you are going to protect the engine with an accumulator and the right baffling in the pan you choose to go with.

Lots of people are running Kevko pans and they do work to a point but if you go with one prepare to be underwhelmed by the quality and expect you may have issues getting them to seal along the back of the engine.

My current thinking is an aluminum GM pan with the right internal baffling aid (improved racing perhaps) plus an accumulator is the right way to go. I'm even open to going to a dry sump system but thats another whole project in itself.

YMMV
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:50 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Bruce View Post
I found a wrecker with an L92 6.2L motor and I'm trying to work a deal on it.

Any hidden catches I should be aware of when it comes to putting one of these in a buggy? I was originally after an LQ9 6.0 motor but the idea of going all aluminum with a few more ponies is nice too

I've swapped other motors before and the drive-by-wire doesn't scare me. Anything else I should be aware of?

Most of what I'm seeing on Pirate is about 5.3 swaps and the occasional LQ9 or LS2. Haven't seen a writeup on an L92 yet.


FYI - It will be mated to a TH400/Atlas

Thanks!
Hey Jon,
It's Dave Mc. I heard you were bit by the buggy bug! So you going to be ready for Feb 2011?

Nothing more to add but keenly interested in what you have set out to learn.
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:38 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I have an L92 stroked to 7.0L in my buggy. You can look for the build Thread in here under Smiley Racing. They do make a sick amount of power I can assure you on that part
Thanks for the feedback. I'll look for the writeup.
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The most important decision you need to make is what oil pan you are going to run and how you are going to protect the engine with an accumulator and the right baffling in the pan you choose to go with.
Definitely agree. I think it's crazy not to run an accumulator. I've heard mixed reviews about the kevko pans as well.
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:39 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Hey Jon,
It's Dave Mc. I heard you were bit by the buggy bug! So you going to be ready for Feb 2011?

Nothing more to add but keenly interested in what you have set out to learn.
Yeah got bit hard by the bug. Sold all my CJ stuff now so there is no turning back.

Feb 2011 is the target. Pre-running in the CJ sucked LOL
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I have no complaints about my swap so far. I started with an L92 short block and built it up to look like an LS3. Currently it has a fixed cam but when some money and time free up, I'm going to swap over to the cam phaser and a cam by mast motorsports.

Spend the money early and get a good aftermarket pan with proper baffling and/or an accumulator so you arent rebuilding the engine in the first season and it should be a great investment. Then Gen 4 small blocks are the pinacle of the series, Gen 5 will not be worth the jump when they come out.

Buy it, enjoy it and never look back!
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Old 08-10-2010, 02:11 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Lots of people are running Kevko pans and they do work to a point but if you go with one prepare to be underwhelmed by the quality and expect you may have issues getting them to seal along the back of the engine.
Dave did yours leak before it got smashed and/or modified?
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Old 08-10-2010, 02:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Stupid question - VSS? I'm searching but I've still got about 50 pages of stuff to read.

The atlas has a VSS on the tailshaft. The TH400 has nothing. The Atlas VSS works great in high range - not so much in low range. How are people getting around this?
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Old 08-10-2010, 03:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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With the th400 you dont need the VSS. The engine doesnt need it, just the trans if it's electronically controlled.
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Old 08-10-2010, 03:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
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my VSS is in my tcase-trans adapter with the ring being on the input shaft of the 231. I have the Novak 231/300/atlas adapter kit. I have been running that kit for quite a few years and my trans shifts fine no matter what range my tcases (231/205 doubler) are in.

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Old 08-10-2010, 04:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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It did not leak before it was smashed and I should have clarified that in this thread as I did in my build thread. That said Dave Cole and several others have had undamaged Kevko pans leak and I've talked with a number of engine builders, pan suppliers etc and they all say the stamped metal pans tend to leak at the back of the pan where there's a 7" stretch between the bolts. In my build thread I documented the way the Kevko pan is rolled at the top mounting flange and it doesn't seal against the factory gasket very well.

I'm glad some folks are having good luck with the Kevko pan but I think people deserve to know its an underwhelming piece of engineering/execution before they buy one. I don't think they have any plans to improve either. I pointed out when I bought my pan how bad the weld splatter and buggers were and they could really care less.

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Dave did yours leak before it got smashed and/or modified?
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Old 12-14-2010, 09:14 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Back up top. I just picked up a L92 and 6L80e for my TJ.

Here are some items I found that are interesting:

Mast Motorsports sells a complete plug and play kit to install your L92 and 6 speed auto trans.

http://www.mastmotorsports.com/2010/...ackages&id=239

Comes with harness, ECM, foot pedal, and air filter. They have claimed 450hp with this setup and it is simple to install. Down side? 2000 dollars!



Has anyone found anything more economical using the factory harness and PCM?
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Old 12-14-2010, 11:12 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I won't say its more economical but to stay with a GM ECM and harness (which means you can use efi live or hp tuners to tune it) you can go to speartech. Also they do a lot more with the 6l80 than Mast does. I now have Mast's software to tune their ecm and still need efi live to tune my 6l80. plus the OBDII port on Mast's harness does not work so to tune the 6l80 I need to unplug it from the buggy's harness and plug it into a jump box type ecm wired to a battery and mini harness. Yes I have asked Mast to fix it but they really can't unless I send in the harness.

The Mast ECM does send the right signals to the 6l80 to make it shift but you will have to retune the 6l80. Speartech can take your TCM in the trans and reprogram it to a vette based tune and provide you with tap shifting capabilities. another thing you cannot do with the Mast setup.

Mast is a good company and the quality of the ECM hardware and harness is nice but it is not the best solution to fully control and tune a 6l80.
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Old 12-14-2010, 11:53 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I was getting a little bit of run around on gearing and tire size questions with the Mast setup. For 2k I should be able to set whatever I want to get things right. I've read so much about this setup it is driving me crazy.

Thanks for the info on Speartech. Off to their page to start reading some more.
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Old 12-14-2010, 05:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Ive got the same powertrain slated to go in my scout one of these days. I called speartech and was quoted about 1650 for the computer/harness/gas pedal. The guy I spoke to could not have been more helpful on the phone. Please document your build as you go, there is scant info on that powertrain on the net.
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Old 12-14-2010, 06:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Ive got the same powertrain slated to go in my scout one of these days. I called speartech and was quoted about 1650 for the computer/harness/gas pedal. The guy I spoke to could not have been more helpful on the phone. Please document your build as you go, there is scant info on that powertrain on the net.
I spoke with Speartech today and the guy I talked with didn't really blow my skirt up. Very vague to every question when I was asking specifics. They do have the cool trip shift shifter for $375 and it will work with my setup since I don't plan to run the VVT.

Now, I did talk with Novak and they do a rework of the stock PCM and harness and the guy I spoke with was very helpful.
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Old 12-15-2010, 11:21 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Personally I see No reason not to go with a stock GM computer and modified harness for what we do.

Honestly there is millions of dollars of engineering in it and they have far more capabilities than most of the stuff out there.

spend the money on efilive or HPtuners and be able to tweak all the settings as needed.
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Old 12-15-2010, 11:43 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Personally I see No reason not to go with a stock GM computer and modified harness for what we do.

Honestly there is millions of dollars of engineering in it and they have far more capabilities than most of the stuff out there.

spend the money on efilive or HPtuners and be able to tweak all the settings as needed.
I'm leaning towards this route. That is what I did with my last harness and PCM and it went very smooth.
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Old 12-15-2010, 12:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Keep the VVT as well and throw in a MAST phaser cam! You should be close the 500HP with a cam and the torque curve will shoot up and be FLAT all the way across!!

You can use the truck ECM/TCM for TUTD shifting. Really all need is the buttons.

Speartech should be able to rework the Gen IV harness.


If not call Jim's Performance and see if he does the Gen IV stuff. He is very reasonable on the Gen III stuff.
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Old 12-15-2010, 01:44 PM   #20 (permalink)
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You can use the truck ECM/TCM for TUTD shifting. Really all need is the buttons.
I've researched the shit out of this and I have yet to discover your claims. Care to go into some details?

Everything I have come across says that the truck architectures send the TUTD signal to the trans via the can +/- wires as a digital signal. The BCM processes the analog button pushes into a can signal. You'd have to create a dummy bcm to process the signals. The vette operating system on the other hand uses pin 7 on the trans pass thru to read a single wire analog signal that passes the 5v signal through resistors and the tcm converts those to the needed signal external of any bcm being in the signal loop.

Now here's the kicker, efi live cant do a full operating system reflash on a t43 due to possible "bricking" that they can't figure out. Not sure how or if hpt addresses this but as far as I know the only way to change the OS is via a tech 2 or equivalent uber powerful calibration software that is well outside most peoples hobby budget.

But, aside from that, the corvette calibration looks 1000000000000000x more refined than the truck parameters so there are many benefits to making the change aside from just TUTD.

The other option is to just buy a corvette 6L80 and swap output shaft (assuming) and the bellhousing (~$100 from memory) but the bellhousing has the pump built into it so it's a bit involved. Or, buy a vette trans and a truck trans and swap out the t43/valve body/solenoids that are all integrated into one plastic bolt on unit.

And whatever you do, if you run or plan to run a 6Lx0 then make sure it is impossible to hit the trans pan or the wrong hit will cost you a lot of hassles since the tcm is only an inch or so above the bottom of the pan.

For anyone thinking this is a great swap, make sure you know what you are getting into. If I didn't have the resources that I do, I would have done a 4L70 or 4L80 long before even thinking about the 6 speed.

Also, my vote is for a factory harness thinned up, e38 and t43 controlled with efi live. By far the most bang for the buck.
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:17 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I've researched the shit out of this and I have yet to discover your claims. Care to go into some details?

Everything I have come across says that the truck architectures send the TUTD signal to the trans via the can +/- wires as a digital signal. The BCM processes the analog button pushes into a can signal. You'd have to create a dummy bcm to process the signals. The vette operating system on the other hand uses pin 7 on the trans pass thru to read a single wire analog signal that passes the 5v signal through resistors and the tcm converts those to the needed signal external of any bcm being in the signal loop.

Now here's the kicker, efi live cant do a full operating system reflash on a t43 due to possible "bricking" that they can't figure out. Not sure how or if hpt addresses this but as far as I know the only way to change the OS is via a tech 2 or equivalent uber powerful calibration software that is well outside most peoples hobby budget.

But, aside from that, the corvette calibration looks 1000000000000000x more refined than the truck parameters so there are many benefits to making the change aside from just TUTD.

The other option is to just buy a corvette 6L80 and swap output shaft (assuming) and the bellhousing (~$100 from memory) but the bellhousing has the pump built into it so it's a bit involved. Or, buy a vette trans and a truck trans and swap out the t43/valve body/solenoids that are all integrated into one plastic bolt on unit.

And whatever you do, if you run or plan to run a 6Lx0 then make sure it is impossible to hit the trans pan or the wrong hit will cost you a lot of hassles since the tcm is only an inch or so above the bottom of the pan.

For anyone thinking this is a great swap, make sure you know what you are getting into. If I didn't have the resources that I do, I would have done a 4L70 or 4L80 long before even thinking about the 6 speed.

Also, my vote is for a factory harness thinned up, e38 and t43 controlled with efi live. By far the most bang for the buck.
Sorry should have been more defined.I was talking about tuning the truck ECM/TCM to the vette adding the wires and using a shifter out of a CTSV.

But, could you use the truck tune in the ECM to retain VVT and add the vette or Camaro tune even and retain the TUTD. Or would the L99 camaro tune with the 6l80 work. I wonder how the TUTD on it is routed via Can Bus?



The other problem with TUTD shifting is the need for a gear indicator as well. But you can use the "Dashdaq" for that too.

EDIT: I studied up on this last year, for a possible swap in my Scout and forgot most of it!!! HAHA But, seems like it can be made to work with enough diggin'

But does anyone really need the TUTD, no IMO.
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:53 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Sorry should have been more defined.I was talking about tuning the truck ECM/TCM to the vette adding the wires and using a shifter out of a CTSV.

But, could you use the truck tune in the ECM to retain VVT and add the vette or Camaro tune even and retain the TUTD. Or would the L99 camaro tune with the 6l80 work. I wonder how the TUTD on it is routed via Can Bus?



The other problem with TUTD shifting is the need for a gear indicator as well. But you can use the "Dashdaq" for that too.

EDIT: I studied up on this last year, for a possible swap in my Scout and forgot most of it!!! HAHA But, seems like it can be made to work with enough diggin'

But does anyone really need the TUTD, no IMO.
It would be nice if we could figure out the TUTD to keep the trans in whatever gear we wanted.

The TUTD would be slick for all those days I take my junk to the track
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Old 12-15-2010, 04:07 PM   #23 (permalink)
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It would be nice if we could figure out the TUTD to keep the trans in whatever gear we wanted.

The TUTD would be slick for all those days I take my junk to the track
I don't see why you couldn't run the truck TUTD by just adding a BCM, such as 95geo mentioned. But it would just be more BS to add.
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Old 01-01-2011, 04:39 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I've researched the shit out of this and I have yet to discover your claims. Care to go into some details?

Everything I have come across says that the truck architectures send the TUTD signal to the trans via the can +/- wires as a digital signal. The BCM processes the analog button pushes into a can signal. You'd have to create a dummy bcm to process the signals. The vette operating system on the other hand uses pin 7 on the trans pass thru to read a single wire analog signal that passes the 5v signal through resistors and the tcm converts those to the needed signal external of any bcm being in the signal loop.

Now here's the kicker, efi live cant do a full operating system reflash on a t43 due to possible "bricking" that they can't figure out. Not sure how or if hpt addresses this but as far as I know the only way to change the OS is via a tech 2 or equivalent uber powerful calibration software that is well outside most peoples hobby budget.

But, aside from that, the corvette calibration looks 1000000000000000x more refined than the truck parameters so there are many benefits to making the change aside from just TUTD.

The other option is to just buy a corvette 6L80 and swap output shaft (assuming) and the bellhousing (~$100 from memory) but the bellhousing has the pump built into it so it's a bit involved. Or, buy a vette trans and a truck trans and swap out the t43/valve body/solenoids that are all integrated into one plastic bolt on unit.

And whatever you do, if you run or plan to run a 6Lx0 then make sure it is impossible to hit the trans pan or the wrong hit will cost you a lot of hassles since the tcm is only an inch or so above the bottom of the pan.

For anyone thinking this is a great swap, make sure you know what you are getting into. If I didn't have the resources that I do, I would have done a 4L70 or 4L80 long before even thinking about the 6 speed.

Also, my vote is for a factory harness thinned up, e38 and t43 controlled with efi live. By far the most bang for the buck.
Did some more research on this and looks like John Spear (SpearTech) got the Tap up/Tap down feature function with out a BCM.

You will need to load Corvette Shift program in TCM to do it.

He this on his 6L80E truck testbed build using momentary contact switch. Later on he converted TU/TD shifter out of a caddy to do it with corvette program for another customer.

John converted a G8 TU/TD shifter back in 2008 so it could manual shift it NO BCM used.

So looks like no BCM needed.

I would contact Speartech for help with this.
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GM Gen III/IV V8 swap info

TECH: Gen III/IV "LS motor" to Early GM Auto Trans
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:56 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Isn't that what I typed in the second and third paragraph in the reply you quoted?

You can manually control the solenoids but that would be a terrible injustice to the operating systems built in abilities. But when you get the shift points where they should be, I see no reason to need to demand a gear other than a 2nd or 3rd gear start.

I want to put a 6L in my TBSS but I'm reluctant since I plan to be well above any reasonable power level. I might just do it anyway to see how hard it'll be. One project at a time for now.....
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