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31 spline hybrids...

3K views 23 replies 11 participants last post by  Sundowner 
#1 ·
Wonderin if you can mix and match all 31 spline stuff, as in D44, ford 9" and Yota stuff. If its all 31 spline , why not ?
 
#6 ·
Most axles are based around a 24 pitch standard, but some manufacturers use a different pressure angle ... that's the chief difference between splines, these days. You *CAN* force a different angled axle to work in a different angled side gear, but it will be less strong. That said, some folks use square-cut axle splines in side gears intended for involute-hobbed axles with few reported problems. Not exactly a square peg in a round hole, but leaning that way...

Unless you've got a shop with the ability to roll external splines or wire-EDM internal splines at your disposal, you're gonna have to work with the existing standards. If you *DO* have such a shop -- please consider adopting me. :p

Randii
 
#7 ·
Thanx Randii, if i did have that type of shop, u'd be first on my list. That aside, can we mix the D44 and the 9" ? are these counts and sizes the same ? 9" is 28 and 13 spline isnt it ? and is the 9" 35 spline workable with a D60 ? I dont think so but im askin cuz id like to know fer sure :D
 
#8 ·
Thanx Randii, if i did have that type of shop, u'd be first on my list. That aside, can we mix the D44 and the 9" ? are these counts and sizes the same ? 9" is 28 and 13 spline isnt it ? and is the 9" 35 spline workable with a D60 ? I dont think so but im askin cuz id like to know fer sure :D
 
#9 · (Edited)
That aside, can we mix the D44 and the 9" ? are these counts and sizes the same ? 9" is 28 and 13 spline isnt it ?
Yup - and those should interchange pretty nicely since they both use the american-standard pressure angle. Toyota axles use a different angle...
Kee-rection! Dana 44 and 'Yota use 30 spline; Ford uses 28 and 31 splines. :rasta: And I can't count! :rasta:

and is the 9" 35 spline workable with a D60 ?
I'm not aware of a factory 35-spline 9-inch application. If you're thinking custom, then by all means let your shop know EXACTLY what you're working with for a differential.

When I refer to the 24 pitch standard, that's referencing a 'perfect axle' with 24 splines in an inch diameter (circular pitch). That standard drives the number of splines based on the diameter of the axle. Thus 1" diameter has 24 splines, 1.5" diameter has 30 splines, and 1.7" diameter has 40 splines. Kinda cool. :cool:

Randii
 
#10 ·
randii said:
That aside, can we mix the D44 and the 9" ? are these counts and sizes the same ? 9" is 28 and 31 spline isnt it ?
Yup - and those should interchange pretty nicely since they both use the american-standard pressure angle. Toyota axles use a different angle...

Randii
when we remove the one spline from the 31 spline 9" shafts, to use them in the 30 spline dana 44, should we carry that spline as a trail spare, or is it pretty much worthless once it has been removed???:flipoff2:
 
#11 ·
Sorry crazyhorse, puttin' that spline back on is a lot tougher than taking it off :) Plus, when they go, they usually take more than one, maybe you could get a deal with machines shops to give you all their drop splines, and you could sell kits of 30 to people wanting to upgrade their D35 :)

randii,

I appreciate the explantion, but it does seem to add up to me.

35 spline would be (35/24) 1.45" (ie big 60, or regular 70, 80 corp 14)

31 spline would be (31/24) 1.29 (ie ford 9")

30 spline would be (30/24) 1.25 (ie D44)

These numbers seem a bit lower than what I've always heard, ie, I've always heard 35 spline 60's had 1 1/2" shafts. Or is the calculated diameter slightly smaller since it's measured at the pressure angle (ie like gears have a bigger OD, than the diameter you use for calculating gear ratio)?

Chad
 
#12 ·
Umm, Crazyhorse, thanks for correcting my counting skillz. I can do one to ten pretty easily, 11 to 20 when I kick off my shoes, and I can even count to :eek: 21 :eek: -- but apparently not all the way to 30 and 31. :emb4: (love the image of keeping a spare spline, tho! :D )

Chad, I believe it is a second-order relationship -- pi*r^2, right? IIRC, it works truest to form when you reference a 'perfect axle' with 24 splines arrayed round in inch diameter, measured at circular pitch (that's exactly between the minor and major diameters). Double the difference (two sides) between major and true circular diameters, and there's a good bit of slop. I believe it is just measurement error -- most folks just mic the major diameter at the splines (or even the unsplined raw stock)

At least that's what I larnt back in skool. You know, same place I larnt to count! :flipoff2:

Randii
 
#14 ·
CrazyHorse said:


when we remove the one spline from the 31 spline 9" shafts, to use them in the 30 spline dana 44, should we carry that spline as a trail spare, or is it pretty much worthless once it has been removed???:flipoff2:
The bonus is... you can carry the spare spline in your back pocket :flipoff2:
 
#16 ·
CrazyHorse said:


when we remove the one spline from the 31 spline 9" shafts, to use them in the 30 spline dana 44, should we carry that spline as a trail spare, or is it pretty much worthless once it has been removed???:flipoff2:
you may even eb able to sell it and cover some of your costs :p
 
#17 ·
All matching spline(& size) Dana axles will interchange right?
Should.

Would a 35spl 9" detriot have the same pressure angle as a D60/70??
Since a 9" 35-spline axle is by definition custom, and most custom axles used in America are machined in America, and the *VAST* majority (if not all) of American axles use the standard same-as-Dana pressure angle... most probably yes.

The same thing is likely to hold true even north of the 49th parallel, unless you hosers have a metric standard angle of your own! :flipoff2:

Randii
 
#18 ·
I was thinkin............(trouble usualy starts here).................
9" 35spl detroit, D70 spindles(& hubs ect.) welded to outers of 9", custom axles & cut down D70 stock axles as spares.

randii said:
unless you hosers have a metric standard angle of your own! :flipoff2:
Randii
We don't make anything, we farm it out to you guys.
Sell are trees for dirt, then buy lumber from yall :flipoff2:
 
#19 ·
Man you guys do not have a clue about splines,how many axle splines have you cut?I have cut thousands! first ford 28 spline 1.200 O.D. 45* pressure angle;ford 31 spline 1.325 O.D. 45* pressure angle; ford 35 spline 1.500 O.D. 30* pressure angle same as dana 35 spline. Dana 30 spline 1.290 O.D. 30* pressure angle this is the same D44and D60; 35 spline 1.500 O.D. 30* pressure angle. This covers 90% axles in use. steve Differential eng. inc.
 
#21 ·
Man you guys do not have a clue about splines...
I'm reaching way back for the 24-spline standard -- see the reference to skool? :rasta: I was kinda hoping you'd jump in with some real-world info -- it ain't like Mark Williams or Frank Currie are gonna post up. :p

American axles use the standard same-as-Dana pressure angle
So let's get past my dusty recollections of skool... who sets the pressure angle standard? Am I wrong in suggesting that 99% of axles made in America use the standard followed by the Dana-Spicer boyz?

Steve's info in tabular format (FAQ fodder!)
* Ford 28 spline 1.200 O.D. 45* pressure angle
* Ford 31 spline 1.325 O.D. 45* pressure angle
* Ford 35 spline 1.500 O.D. 30* pressure angle
* Dana 35 spline 1.500 O.D. 30* pressure angle
* Dana 30 spline 1.290 O.D. 30* pressure angle

Steve -- any comments on meshing a straight-cut spline against a diff designed to accept an involute spline?

Randii
 
#22 · (Edited)
I hope i did not step on any toe's,dana has been at it a long time using the involute spline.There are many other pressure angle's,one is mark williams 1.500 O.D. with 35 spline but it has a 45* pressure angle, many poeple confuse this with the dana 35 spline 30* pressure angle. Not sure what you call stright spline- coarse spline?Involute spline can be up to 35% stronger than coarse spline. steve differential eng. inc.
 
#23 ·
There are many other pressure angle's, one is mark williams 1.500 O.D. with 35 spline but it has a 45* pressure angle, many poeple confuse this with the dana 35 spline 30* pressure angle.
Why on earth does MW use a different pressure angle? I understand the mechanics -- the smaller included angle allows the minor diameter to be closer to the major diameter, which makes for a slightly larger net cross-section (better strength) -- but doesn't that limit you to pretty much JUST Mark Williams spools? Not that I wouldn't LIKE to have $2K worth of titanium spool. :p Just doesn't seem practical...

I'm gonna move my question about straight vs. involute splines to a different thread...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=92295

Randii
( anybody got a spline they can loan me? :p )
 
#24 ·
My guess would be that MW uses different pressure angles required by the different alloys he uses. you lose ductility with a commensurate increase in yield strength. the shear plane on the spline on a 45* probably puts the force right back into the base circle, and not out the other side of the spline, making it much stronger. the bitch of that is that the broached end of the carrier now carries about 40% more outward radial load trying to blow it apart. but again, if he's using the high alloy in the broached material, he has that luxury. Dana doesn't since they use cast carriers.
 
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