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Old 10-31-2010, 07:19 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Reverser Transfer Case

Its been shown on here before, but never really discussed.

Build a front engined rig, flip the axles like you would for a rear engine rig and throw in a reverser transfer case (or transmission or even a reverser box in between the two) to drive everything the correct direction.

The Milner reverse rotation transfer case is designed for rear engined cars so you can run the diffs in their standard low pin config (, :shaking).

Milner Reverse Rotation Quick Change Race box. Go about 1/2 way down the page.

Also cool is the quick change gearset on the back. Trail-duty run one set, comp run a different set.

From their site:
Quote:
This purpose built helical gear transfer box was specifically designed for rear engined off-road race cars.

This lighter unit weighs 30KG which is approximately half the weight of a LT-230 Rover transfer box and represents a weight saving of 28KG (63lbs). It provides nine quick change gear ratios ranging from 2.067 : 1, up to 1.31 : 1, and importantly it reverses the output rotation, which means you do not have to turn the axles over to achieve 5 forward gears and one reverse.

Transfer boxes can be supplied with any of the nine ratios on the change gear chart. For example if you decided on change gears 34T and 36T these would give transfer box ratios of 1.74 : 1 if the 34T gear was installed in the top position and the 36T gear to the bottom, or 1.55 : 1 with the gears fitted the other way around. Other gears are available should your first ratio calculation be a little off the mark. Subsequently, a known suitable gear ratio can be installed for a particular event.

The most common transfer boxes are part no. KK2188RF, and KK2188RM. The ‘R’ means right hand output, the ‘F’ and ‘M’ stand for female and male input shaft respectively. For example a transfer box with a female input shaft would accept the 10 spline mainshaft of a LT-77 or R380 gearbox, the male input shaft would be coupled to a torque flight 3 speed automatic mainshaft to make the overall gearbox - transfer box length as short as possible.

All transfer boxes require a fitting kit to locate them to the main gearbox, fitting kits are listed on the price list and consist of a heat treated aluminium adapter, mainshaft coupler, location dowels, oil seals and level plugs, and all associated fasteners.

In addition to ‘standard’ transfer boxes and fitting kits we also offer alternative propshaft flanges, cv joint flanges and three leg spider type couplings which accepts the ‘GKN’ rubber propshaft joint.
Of course it's designed for the Rovers, but a few changes and run it in whatever.
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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1 speed transfer case?

i would love to put one of these with 1.31 in front of a 2spd atlas


edit: answered one of my own questions

Last edited by rockyota83; 10-31-2010 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Do all that just to use low pinion diffs upside down?
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dlarrivee View Post
Do all that just to use low pinion diffs upside down?
or not have to flip the axles with a rear engine buggy
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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That's what they use in the UK so they can run low pin diffs in a reverse engine rig. Doesn't make sense to me, but OK if it works for them.

What I am saying is something like this to run flipped axles in a front engine rig. That way you get high pinion diffs ran on the correct side for the strongest gears.

Yes, I agree with rockyota, need a 2 or even 4 speed case.
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Old 10-31-2010, 08:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The Monster truck and Truck puller types use the old GM reverser T-cases in their rigs. They are huge and heavy, but work for them in a rear engine application (again, not sure why...).

GMC reverser T-cases: G506, G508

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslut

From old Pirate thread: Transfer Case ID Help 1940s

Here is what I know about these cases.
"There are two GM built WW2 transfer cases. One is G506 1 1/2 ton Chevy and the other is G508 GMC CCKW 2 1/2 ton. The G508 case is underdrive in high range the G506 is direct in high range. They use ball bearings and that makes it easy to replace the bearings because there are no shims to deal with. If you have all good gears then it is pretty easy. The G506 case is a little shorter and has no yoke on the top where the parking brake drum is. The g508 case has a yoke on both shafts sticking out the back of the T Case. One problem G506 T cases have when they get worn is popping out of high range. Not sure about the G508 cases on that. The g508 transfer cases came in both the Timkin style with tapered roller bearings and the GMC style with ball bearings. The Timkin style was with the split Timkin axles and the GMC style was with the banjo style axles. The G508 transfer cases are more common than the Chevy style because there was a lot more GMC deuce and a half's made.The GMC g508 transfer case had 1.16 to 1 high ratio and 2.63 to 1 low. The Chevy G506 T case is 1 to 1 and 1.94 to 1."

There actually three cases. Here is a little about the third. That transfer looks like that from the G749 GMC duece of the 1950's. It is a sprag type case, single speed permanent underdrive, and needs a mechanical signal from the transmission to tell it which way to turn for forward or reverse."

"GM 7411327 ratio 1.16to 1 ( single speed )"

Parts guy from Boyce Equipment said

"g508 transfer case out of a CCKW will work, swaps right in. It is 2 speed high-low and will go with your banjo axles"

There are only three, but which do I have? They all look nearly identical, which is why I posted a million pics. I know I do not have the G749 because it is single speed and I wouldn't want one anyway(read above). So that eliminates one and leaves this G506 or G508. Which do I have?
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Old 10-31-2010, 08:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
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this is nothing new... there are a few companies making the reverse-rotation transfer cases.... but these are definitely the cheapest i've seen
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Old 10-31-2010, 08:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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there are a few companies making the reverse-rotation transfer cases....
thanks.... how about links or at least names of these companies
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Old 10-31-2010, 08:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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thanks.... how about links or at least names of these companies
SCS Gearbox

Profab
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Old 10-31-2010, 08:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
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thanks


im in the planning stages for a koh poser trail rig rear engine 14 bolts, be nice to not have to flip the rear. i really wish someone would build a reversing box like a klune or nwf's black box but single speed with a 1.3 - 1 in front of an atlas making 4.56 gears into 5.92's, or 4.88s into 6.34's, and 5.13's into 6.67's

running the 2.0 4spd atlas is imo too much reduction, splitting the stress between the r&p and the tc outputs seems better to me.

Last edited by rockyota83; 10-31-2010 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 10-31-2010, 09:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
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you could use a v-drive also if you dont want to flip the axles
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtZombie View Post
you could use a v-drive also if you dont want to flip the axles
the casale can be configured as a Z drive. It would not be hard to mate that to an Atlas II from there.

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Old 11-01-2010, 07:51 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtZombie View Post
this is nothing new...
Hmmm... let me check.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech Tim View Post
Its been shown on here before, but never really discussed.
Quote:
From old Pirate thread: Transfer Case ID Help 1940s
Thread date: Old 08-23-2007.


Yep, you're right, this is nothing new, however it has never really been discussed before. Hence the reason for this thread.

Wow deja-vu.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:36 AM   #14 (permalink)
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They've got the gearsets figured out. How about building a case for them (ala a Toy dual case adapter) that would give you a custom low range going into a standard Toy gear-drive t-case (with stock 1:1/2.8:1 or aftermarket 1:1/4.7:1 gears).

You lose the quick-change, but gain the reverse a different gear range.

It would have to be vertically or horizontally offset by the difference between the reverser gear centers--you couldn't easily send the reversed torque out the same line as your transmission output.
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech Tim View Post
Hmmm... let me check.....




Thread date: Old 08-23-2007.


Yep, you're right, this is nothing new, however it has never really been discussed before. Hence the reason for this thread.

Wow deja-vu.
Tim,well it kind of has been dicussed a little, quite recently in fact on this forum
on at least 2 threads, but they dropped off the radar fairly quickly, due to lack of interest I guess.I'd go back through the pages to find the threads for you, but although I made some contributions to both I've lost interest in the subjct and can't be arsed.
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
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That's why it was brought back up, to get some discussion going.

Maybe there is no place for it to go and this thread will also die a quick death.
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:33 AM   #17 (permalink)
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http://www.novaracing.co.uk/reversin...upling-kit.htm

similar (60% vs 70%)to what i want but dont need it to switch into forward, now if someone would make this as a klune/black box type replacement that i could put in front of an atlas and have it hold up to abuse id be
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:41 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZukIzzy View Post
the casale can be configured as a Z drive. It would not be hard to mate that to an Atlas II from there.

Wayne
exactly...here is a quick illustration i made to show the configuration


just flipping the axle is the cheapest way to run rear engine, but if you want to keep the axles in the correct orientation then a v-drive is the next best solution

but as far as packaging goes, the Milner case that the OP found is the way to go... and at about $1400, its by far the cheapest reverse rotation transfer case ive seen

im planning a rear engine mud truck and have been researching all the possibilities for drivetrain setups... The Milner is definitely at the top of the list now
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Old 11-02-2010, 12:57 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Why not use a profab or scs with reverser. One less driveshaft.
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Old 11-02-2010, 04:39 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Why not use a profab or scs with reverser. One less driveshaft.
i named those in post 9

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Old 11-02-2010, 10:20 PM   #21 (permalink)
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go to a big equipment junk yard and pick up a T-case out of a lowl..(offroad forklift type deal)
they are reverse rotation and u get em for a few hundred bucks.
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
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go to a big equipment junk yard and pick up a T-case out of a lowl..(offroad forklift type deal)
they are reverse rotation and u get em for a few hundred bucks.
do you mean a Lull??
one of these?


how much gear reduction do they have?.. how much do they weigh?
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Old 11-03-2010, 05:27 AM   #23 (permalink)
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go to a big equipment junk yard and pick up a T-case out of a lowl..(offroad forklift type deal)
they are reverse rotation and u get em for a few hundred bucks.
No there not, the ZF axle's found In most of them have a flipped center section. Trust me they made to work on what ever side of the gear you need them to.
Infact some very old Lulls Ive seen divorced 205's with 1410 U-joints on it.

Ive re-assmbled plenty of ZF axle's when I worked for Cat, and its very easy to put a center section in wrong. You will know when you try and back out the door and the Backhoe ( or what ever ) the machne will stay still.

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Old 11-03-2010, 05:53 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I've got a clark/hurth box out of an offroad fork lift, it is a reverse rotation box, 1:1 ratio & only weighs about 75 lbs, I've seen a little mor HD version in a size larger machine, it looked like it was about 125lbs or so.

For those of you that were wondering about those boxes.
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Old 11-03-2010, 07:25 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I've mentioned this in threads before but never got any answers, maybe its just too off the wall. But if you were somehow able to hold the carrier gear in a Klune V stationary you would get a reverser. You would loose a little gear ratio but that would be good anyway. My only questions are the reverser durability in that configuration and the t-case's durability always being run in reverse. Because of the Klune V's universal adaptability though this would be a universal reverser that would work on nearly anytrans / t-case combo. The cool thing would be that, due to the reduction of the reverser, many people could use stock 3.73 and 4.10 ratio gear sets in their upside down axles which are stronger than 5.13's and the like.

So does anyone know the durability effects of holding a planetary carrier gear stationary, if any? I know there has been a thread about running np205's backwards like this where some questions about thrust bearing surfaces came up. I've read that thread a million times and don't think that anyone ever came up with a satisfactory final answer though.

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