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Old 12-16-2010, 05:00 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I had a really bad experience with PSC P pumps. Have been running Howe TC pumps and have had no issues.

-Lucas
Well, I'd consider you very fortunate then. I've had 5 bad Howe TC pumps laying on the garage floor at the same time and as stated above, it was all my fault. Routed wrong, bad idler in the serpentine belt routing, and they had me jumping through my ass with all manner of bullshit testing. They even had me hook up a hose and time how long it took to pump the reservoir down into a clear plastic jug to measure the flow.

I finally yanked the quiet TC pump from my rig and swapped it into the rig I was working on and it was dead silent with NO OTHER changes to the system. This was after Chris told me that I didn't know how to bleed a system, didn't know how to route hoses, install reservoirs or basically anything to avoid admitting any fault on their part. And that was after I had purchased and installed at least 10 systems from them.

After a week of that bullshit that I couldn't get paid for, I said screw it, went to PSC and could not be happier.

Lance, Tom, and Kelvin rule on customer service, listen to their customers and on the odd very rare occasion that I need something handled, it's taken care of instantly and with as little cost to me as is possible. No more Howel for me.

edit-lest we forget, at the very least with PSC you don't have to listen to someone badmouth the competition for 30 minutes before your problem gets handled.
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:22 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Nothing ground breaking to add here, but when I originally started building my rig, PSC wasn't in the picture yet. I started with Howe and was astonished by the guy who answered the phone and how fucking arrogant he was. I bit the bullet and bought just the TC pump at the time, because I just couldnt afford the rest of their system. I was in college at the time and the build took forever. By the time I was finished with the truck, I bought the rest from PSC and was amazed by their customer service. I have only bought and recommended PSC from there on out.

I am glad to see I wasn't alone and maybe the guys at Howe should read through this thread. Seems pretty apparent that the quality of the product isn't lacking, just CS skills.
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:30 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Nothing ground breaking to add here, but when I originally started building my rig, PSC wasn't in the picture yet. I started with Howe and was astonished by the guy who answered the phone and how fucking arrogant he was. I bit the bullet and bought just the TC pump at the time, because I just couldnt afford the rest of their system. I was in college at the time and the build took forever. By the time I was finished with the truck, I bought the rest from PSC and was amazed by their customer service. I have only bought and recommended PSC from there on out.

I am glad to see I wasn't alone and maybe the guys at Howe should read through this thread. Seems pretty apparent that the quality of the product isn't lacking, just CS skills.
Yeah...when I call Howe years ago I remember think to myself if this guy is this much of a fawk, I really don't want to deal with him if I have a problem.
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:02 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I had a really bad experience with PSC P pumps. Have been running Howe TC pumps and have had no issues.

-Lucas
Me and a couple guys I wheel with have problems out of the PSC P pumps also. I swaped in a stock pump, and couldn't be happier.
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:19 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I run PSCand have had excellent I recently had some issues with an install at my shop and I called and talked to Kelvin, he had me straightened out in no time! The problem was with my plumbing job not the equipment.

My last trip out in my buggy I noticed the double ended ram was moving back and forth in the mounts, I retorqued the mounting bolts and so far it is looking good.
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:58 PM   #31 (permalink)
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PSC is top notch and Jeff Howe knows his products well.

But psc and Howe are often catering to different crowds. For instance, psc doesn't sell a rack vs Howe who is so much about the dezert. Howe is so much about buying a $$$ kit for a specific application whereas psc has such an arsenal of parts to assemble specific solutions. Psc has affordable solutions but doesn't offer a trophy truck pump that delivers 13 gpm at 1600 psi.
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Old 12-17-2010, 03:29 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Well, I'd consider you very fortunate then. I've had 5 bad Howe TC pumps laying on the garage floor at the same time and as stated above, it was all my fault. Routed wrong, bad idler in the serpentine belt routing, and they had me jumping through my ass with all manner of bullshit testing. They even had me hook up a hose and time how long it took to pump the reservoir down into a clear plastic jug to measure the flow.

I finally yanked the quiet TC pump from my rig and swapped it into the rig I was working on and it was dead silent with NO OTHER changes to the system. This was after Chris told me that I didn't know how to bleed a system, didn't know how to route hoses, install reservoirs or basically anything to avoid admitting any fault on their part. And that was after I had purchased and installed at least 10 systems from them.

After a week of that bullshit that I couldn't get paid for, I said screw it, went to PSC and could not be happier.

Lance, Tom, and Kelvin rule on customer service, listen to their customers and on the odd very rare occasion that I need something handled, it's taken care of instantly and with as little cost to me as is possible. No more Howel for me.

edit-lest we forget, at the very least with PSC you don't have to listen to someone badmouth the competition for 30 minutes before your problem gets handled.
I was just sharing my experience. I know plenty of people run PSC systems with no problems. I installed both systems precisely how the manufacturer wanted them installed and one system worked and the other didn’t. I stuck with the one worked.
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Old 12-17-2010, 07:04 AM   #33 (permalink)
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PSC - customer service is worth everything to us. Every problem we've ever thought we had, ended up being our own fault.
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Old 12-17-2010, 07:20 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Kelvin is the man at PSC - extremely helpful and always willing to work out a problem, no matter your skill level. I will purchase from them again without question - by far the easiest company I've ever worked with. AA is a close second
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:47 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laproscopic View Post
PSC is top notch and Jeff Howe knows his products well.

But psc and Howe are often catering to different crowds. For instance, psc doesn't sell a rack vs Howe who is so much about the dezert. Howe is so much about buying a $$$ kit for a specific application whereas psc has such an arsenal of parts to assemble specific solutions. Psc has affordable solutions but doesn't offer a trophy truck pump that delivers 13 gpm at 1600 psi.
Not for much longer on both cases from what I understand.

Didnt an ex King just switch from Howe to PSC? Thought I heard that.
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Old 12-17-2010, 09:09 AM   #36 (permalink)
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PSC customer service is second to none, my vote PSC!!
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Old 12-17-2010, 10:09 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I am glad to see I wasn't alone and maybe the guys at Howe should read through this thread. Seems pretty apparent that the quality of the product isn't lacking, just CS skills.
Wow!

I have dealt with Howe for 3 or more years. I know that right when we started doing business, someone was let go - probably the customer service issue. I deal with both George and Jeff over there and both are top notch in customer service and very knowledgeable. It is the type of company that will give you a call or e-mail to make sure things are working out right. I have spent countless hours on the phone with them discussing steering system design, correct routing, temperatures, cavitation, etc. I've given them both positive and negative feedback on parts and I can see the best parts getting even better for our sport.

Jeff has decades of race experience and is a true friend to the whole off-road community. He has raced baja for years and this year was Scott Douglass spotter when he won the AMSOIL Cup (was the Borg Warner Cup).

Given my brother's and my experience I can't disagree more about their customer service. Now the price.... You get what you pay for!
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Old 12-17-2010, 11:53 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Wow!

I have dealt with Howe for 3 or more years. I know that right when we started doing business, someone was let go - probably the customer service issue. I deal with both George and Jeff over there and both are top notch in customer service and very knowledgeable. It is the type of company that will give you a call or e-mail to make sure things are working out right. I have spent countless hours on the phone with them discussing steering system design, correct routing, temperatures, cavitation, etc. I've given them both positive and negative feedback on parts and I can see the best parts getting even better for our sport.

Jeff has decades of race experience and is a true friend to the whole off-road community. He has raced baja for years and this year was Scott Douglass spotter when he won the AMSOIL Cup (was the Borg Warner Cup).

Given my brother's and my experience I can't disagree more about their customer service. Now the price.... You get what you pay for!
You have to admit though that who you are carries a lot of weight. Joe Blow off the street will not get treated the same as you do at Howel.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:10 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Wow!

I have dealt with Howe for 3 or more years. I know that right when we started doing business, someone was let go - probably the customer service issue.
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You have to admit though that who you are carries a lot of weight. Joe Blow off the street will not get treated the same as you do at Howel.

mrblaine is probably right. Read through the thread and you see an overwhelming amount of responses that deal with their customer service. It's possible the guy I talked to doesn't even work there anymore, it was over 6.5 years ago. I am sure that both companies can sell you a great product, but when one company acts like their shit don't stink and the other willingly goes above and beyond to satisfy the customer, it's easy to see why more people stay away from Howe. I would be willing to bet that nearly any given offroad company sells more parts to the average joe than the next big name in the sport. When a customer deals with some prick who doesn't necessarily represent what the company is about, then the customer will find another company to deal with. And many have. All I was saying was that maybe the owner of Howe could benefit from seeing REAL feedback from the average joe.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:20 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Wow!

I have dealt with Howe for 3 or more years. I know that right when we started doing business, someone was let go - probably the customer service issue.


I doubt that was the problem. When I was dealing with the Torchmate 7 truck when it was first purchased, I called explained the parts, what and whose truck it had been prior, and what was needed. I was read the roit act about how the "F" could there parts need service, and how did I know they were in need of rebuild.

More recently, Since PSC doesn't build rack systems, I called Howe, again Explained where I was calling from (buisness name) and what I was looking for. after a heavy sigh, and a pause, and this is a direct quote.

Quote:
Those rock crawler guy's trying to pretend they are desert races just buy cheap tractor steering, we don't really like dealing with them, and don't stock junk parts
I was calling about a 2.75 truggy rack setup for an IFS car This was 2 months ago.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:26 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I know what you are saying but also consider that we buy Howe parts just like any other dealer. A sticker on the truck gets me a discount on rebuilds.

I have a ton of respect for Howe and have never heard claims of customer service issues. I'm concerned that some folks are having them and I know that it is not what Howe stands for. To that end - I have passed along information from this thread. Hopefully you guys that feel frustrated will give them another shot someday.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:31 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I doubt that was the problem. When I was dealing with the Torchmate 7 truck when it was first purchased, I called explained the parts, what and whose truck it had been prior, and what was needed. I was read the roit act about how the "F" could there parts need service, and how did I know they were in need of rebuild.

More recently, Since PSC doesn't build rack systems, I called Howe, again Explained where I was calling from (buisness name) and what I was looking for. after a heavy sigh, and a pause, and this is a direct quote.



I was calling about a 2.75 truggy rack setup for an IFS car This was 2 months ago.
I don't know what to say Dave. I have had several conversations about making rockcrawlers go fast and they didn't go at all like that. Regardless - do business with who you have confidence in. That's what I do.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:34 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Not for much longer on both cases from what I understand.

Didnt an ex King just switch from Howe to PSC? Thought I heard that.
I'm running the PSC version of a TT pump. I think it's great, but I don't think the advertised flow numbers are as high as Howe's. I think it's plenty fast and it's been reliable for over a season of racing (close to 1000 miles on it). Definitely faster than the other PSC pumps. I don't think they've tried to push sales of the pump much because the higher the performance of the pump the more critical things like plumbing, routing, and component location become.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:39 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Didnt an ex King just switch from Howe to PSC? Thought I heard that.
Yes, and it was a direct result of super shitty customer service. At the Stampede Tom, Lance and the awesome PSC crew got under that rig and made a system that worked.

I've been watching this thread not really needing to chime in but I have to agree with the masses here. I started with a Howe system on my old Cruiser cause everyone said they were were soooo awesome. As soon as I told them it was going on a crawling rig the shit attitude started

Had an issue with the pump and they told me it was all my fault cause I was running hydro assist. I told them very clearly when I placed my order that it was an assist system, whatever.

Got the impression they are only out there for the big dollar teams that call in with a card number and order 3 of the best systems they sell. The rock crowd is just a bunch of broke dicks that don't deserve their time

Chalk another notch up for the amazing service and support PSC gives
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:43 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I have had several conversations about making rockcrawlers go fast and they didn't go at all like that. R
You have to see that there's a big difference between you calling and the average guy off PBB calling
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:52 PM   #46 (permalink)
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pump

Brand new psc n pump lasted 84 miles put the howe tc pump on it, and its lasted testing-stampede and more testing.When talking to Howe about steering
i knew i was at the right place after about a 1 1/2 hour of talking and questions
i ordered a complete system with the trophy truck pump, i like calling and Jeff or george will help answer questions now.I also ran a howe tc for 3.5 years on my f-toy with no problem.Howe products are the best, not the best priced
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:59 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Yes, and it was a direct result of super shitty customer service. :
No it wasn't.


Jason had a part fail at the race. PSC was their and fixed it.
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:04 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I have been dealing with Jeff Howe for over 15 years and have nothing but great experience and customer service from him but mostly I have always had a system that works.


He isn't hard to deal with as long as you subscribe to his methods and ways of doing things.
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:06 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I bought a Howe full hydraulic system for my rig 5 years ago. The guy I spoke with at the time had that "better than me attitude" when he found out I was a Rock Crawler. After sitting for 3 years (because I had the Formula Toy) I started putting my rig back together. I had changed motors so I needed to change to a serpentine pully. I was also worried about the pully size now that I would be running at a higher RPM for longer periods of time. I dreaded calling Howe because I didn't want to deal with the attitude but I sucked it up and called anyway.
Jeff Howe happened to answer the phone. He was very pleasant and respectful. He took the time to answer my questions on why some of the high dollar teams in KOH were having steering failures. He spelled out a few common installation errors. He didn't bad mouth the competition. He asked me detailed questions about my rig and about how I would be driving it. He recommended what I should buy. when I asked about the more expensive products he said I didn't need it. When I finally told him I was a KOH competitor he offered a discount in exchange for advertisement.
It was a pleasure talking to him and I wouldn't hesitate recommending him to anyone.
So there you go Blaine, I'm far from a big name and I was plesantly surprised with their customer service.
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:09 PM   #50 (permalink)
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No it wasn't.


Jason had a part fail at the race. PSC was their and fixed it.
get a little more info before you say it wasn't Camo...that was part of it, but not all of it.

PSC went above and beyond to help Jason get up and running and into a new system. I spent hours working on it with them in the parking lot....I should know.
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