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Howe vs PSC

28K views 146 replies 81 participants last post by  73FJBUGGY 
#1 ·
What have you guys found to work best and why? Any disadvantages to either? Does one have a better steering response? Better pump, orbital, or ram? I am about to purchase some steering for a ultra 4 car. I have ran PSC before but only in slow rock crawling

Thanks!
 
#95 ·
So what I want to get my head around is what is the TECHNICAL difference between the two companies?
I mean it is painfully obvious that PSC does a lot of things right as a company:
- they always answer the phones
- Lance, Kelvin, and the other dude whose name I can't remember always give you knowledgeable answers and opinions on products
- they really work on refining their products as is apparent by their new recent offerings (listed below)
- they make their own stuff (which I am told Howe does not)

On the other hand Howe:
- Jeff has more experience with a wider variety of scenarios that any of the guys at PSC
- they don't really like to sell "components"- just systems which makes it tough to convert to them if you already run SOME equipment from someone else and simply want to change out a ram, etc...

But all that is just side notes to the real question which is how does the quality of the individual components stack up between each other, and what are the different idealogies in setting up a hydraulic system. So what are the differences here? I've spoken with all of the people I mention above probing them with questions as to the flow of their systems, why they selected various components etc. As well as having looked at 2 different systems for each of the vendors and here is what I see:

RAM-
IT appears to me that Howe really puts a lot of money into their rams. From what I understand they do nit make their stuff themselves, they have a machine shop do it for them, but holding one vs the other the Howe just feels beefier and a higher quality of machining. That being said I haven't seen the new rams from PSC which have recently come out with a design similar to that of the Howe- incorporating 4 notches for holders. So perhaps PSC has addressed this

Orbitals- to my knowledge PSC isn't even currently using their own orbitals- they are buying em from someone else as they ran out of stock or something. Howe I believe gets their orbital from the same manufacturer that PSC is currently using so... That it kind of a wash

Lines- looking at similar systems one way vs the other it appears that PSC uses higher PSI hoses, but of a smaller line size than Howe in some areas, PSC SEEMS to like the 3000 PSI hoses and HOWE the 2000 PSI hoses. These systems are usually well under either so I don't really know that I am qualified to comment either way- but that is an observation

COOLERS- transmission type cooler vs the heat sink type. I BELIEVE that both offer both but in looking at systems both my friends with PSC run the Derale heat sync types, and both my Howe friends run the transmission cooler types. Could be coincidence, could be that the vendors pushed them one way vs. The other

FILTERS- Howe uses a pretty monster filter that I guess has really great flow characteristics but is a PITA to find room for under a hood of a stock class vehicle... Sure if your building your own engine bay on your tube chassis you can make room but if your shoving 10 lbs of salmon in a 5 lb tuna can like most of us... it can be a little tricky. PSC has this new filter system built into the reservoir. Both my PSC buddies don't even run filters, because they think it causes restriction and consequentially heat build up but that was before PSC came out with their new bling - so I'd love to hear a weigh in here.

PUMPS - I have no idea. This is the part that fails of course, and for what it's worth I know of a lot more PSC pumps that have burned up that HOWE but that could very easily be layout and be consequence of other components in the system rather than the quality of the pump itself. I'd love to see a comparison in photos of a TC vs. TC type deal but I don't own both so I cant do so.

Let's get to some tech on which is better, and quit arguing about who is nicer on the phone
 
#121 ·
RAM-
IT appears to me that Howe really puts a lot of money into their rams. From what I understand they do not make their stuff themselves, they have a machine shop do it for them
Yea some are made in Tucson at a local machine shop.
Its impressive to see in person, pallets of shiny new howe steering racks.
They picked a quality shop IMO.
 
#97 · (Edited)
See- this is the type of comment that confuses me. I mean what would you expect a company to do if they sent you a faulty part- if I get a faulty part I am not loyally devoted to a company just because they made me whole... I'm a fan when a company sends me a part that works the first time. I've heard a dozen or so people say something like this and I'm missing something. Personally I'd be PO'd with the hassle of having to wait for the same part twice.
 
#102 ·
Needed my PSC steering box rebuilt a couple days before a comp. I overnighted it, they rebuilt it in a couple hours of receipt and overnighted it back out the same day . I killed my pump and they overnighted me a new JB pump for only the cost of the shipping. Their customer service has been phenomenal.
 
#103 ·
PSC is a rock of my Biz. I have been doing Biz with them for years now and they are a great company who puts out a great product and most important stands behind it.

PSC vs. Howe is a hard one. I know Howe make great products as well but I would not say either one is better made or works any better. From what I know there is only so much you can do to these parts to get performance out of them. I dont think its a huge secret that one company has over the other to make it better.

As for PSC
- They sell lots of parts individually to help guys like us build their kits over time and or replace / upgrade parts as needed.

- Their full kits give you everything you need and TRUST ME when I say they do everything in their power to keep the price of their kits / parts down. A good example is the groves in their DE rams. They used to make it that way and took it away to keep cost down (which they passed on to us) in 99% of the applications a properly torqued clamp would work not prob. Well as we know things happen and PSC realized this so brought back their old ram style with the groves. A good call IMO.

- Cust service. Its obvious PSC is one of the best not only in steering but in offroad. They make it right period no questions ask.

- Support... They are helping the offroad community. They are a huge player in supporting 4x4 venues and events. Stop by their trailer at KOH They have their entire team + more there helping not only racers but recreational wheelers. PSC is there to #1 help the customer #2 build their biz. That order is more than important to me.

Steering is forgein for lots of us. Its one of the best mods you can do to your rig but at the same time one of the hardest to set up. I can tell you 99.9% of the issues I have ever had from a customer was due to inproper set up. There are a few key things you need to do to ensure your system stays alive. Its like anything else high performance... If its not set up right you cannot expect it to preform or last. Do a few simple things (set up Resi in the right spot, run cooler, blead system, mount the orbital proper, run proper fluid) and you wont have an issue.

I sell a TON of PSC parts and pride myself on doing it. I once asked Howe (not sure who it was) at a race in Parker. I walked over to their trailer and just simply asked " how is your parts different from PSC" The answer I got was " we sell only full complete kits to ensure your system works the best from the get go. We dont sell individual parts" That answer I got was fair and I respect them for that. I do though like how PSC offers individual parts. It allows someone on a limted budget to get started and upgrade as them go.

Anyone have any questions or want opinion please contact me. Im not affraid to stand behind a company that stands behind us.
 
#104 ·
Reading this thread again and looking objectively at it. The big difference that I see after all of these years between PSC and Howe is the number of systems that actually are on the type of vehicles we drive. Rockcrawlers/4400/Ultra 4 types. I would say PSC hands down has plenty more units on the market and in the dirt and ultimately has had more opportunities to "get it right" and perfect their product.

The rest of the service is awesome, no doubt, but being able to refine a product by the total of numbers that are on the market, you cant replicate that type of R&D.
 
#113 ·
IMO you make and excellent point here- because with EITHER of these manufacturers systems- if you set them up wrong you'll burn them up. I just don't think that this is the ONLY difference between the success and failure of a system. Bad install makes good components fail- but in a good install I believe that better components and design will always lead to longer product life and a more reliable system.
 
#114 ·
I've had very bad experiences with PSC pumps. It would always blow the fluid out of the shaft seal right out of the box. I went through 3 of them till I decided to use the factory seal on the last pump I received. Has worked flawlessly since I did that. On my Hummer I also got a PSC pump to run the ram assist. I have a SAS Hummer. The PSC was installed. It lasted literally 15 minutes and it blew the same seal as on my TJ. Returned it to PSC for replacement. Meanwhile I had Howe modify my OEM pump. It's worked without a hitch. The PSC replaced pump is sitting in a box as a spare. I was thinking of replacing the seal on it since it would be useless as a spare if blows up right away.
 
#117 ·
Fuggy havent you had to send your HOWE pump back for warranty already?

HOWE is huge on using TC pumps for their 4x4 applications. Why because TC pumps are knows to be Tough. They are the 22re / 4.0 of the pump world. They do not offer good power in compairison. No matter what you do a TC pump will be a TC pump. It will work fine but will it work great?? NO...

If you want your steering to work get a stock pump. If you want it to work great get a aftermarket pump. Now if you do a aftermarket pump make sure to set it up right. Its not hard. Make sure your Resi is highest and feeds down and close to the pump. Put a cooler and good resi on it.

Im willing to bet my PSC system on my buggy will out steer a HOWE set up (single ended ram / same orbital). Set up right My system last for ever and I dont worry about leaving me standed. I still run the same steering I did before I was in the 4x4 industry so build on budget and over time with bits and peices.
 
#119 ·
Every PSC pump I've heard whines.
As for some tech, I have both a PSC and a HOWE in line cooler. (Ill put up pics when I have time ). Howe does make their coolers, and the advantage is the ID is constant all the way through. The PSC cooler is made by someone else and I don't care for it because the ID of the cooler is larger then the inlet and outlet. Id be willing to bet that creates turbulence in the fluid on both ends.
 
#125 · (Edited)
The PSC cooler is made by someone else and I don't care for it because the ID of the cooler is larger then the inlet and outlet. Id be willing to bet that creates turbulence in the fluid on both ends.
On the HOWE, are you saying the ID is the same, including the fittings?

Regardless, I wonder how much of an issue that really is on the low pressure side...?
 
#120 ·
I keep hearing about people installing their full hydro setups wrong and I'm confused at how they do that.:confused:

What's a common pitfall for the new guys?

I've setup my system myself and have run it for 3 years and never had an issue, seems like a pretty straight forward setup to me.
 
#124 · (Edited)
#128 ·
Howe is getting my $$$$ this time around. I bought a full-tilt psc system a couple years ago and while I never had a single problem with their product, I was disappointed with thier service between ordering and receiving (two sperate delays) and then not receiving some parts I had ordered and receiving some of the wrong parts, then having to buy all new hoses and fittings because their "kit" didn't quite fit my application and all of the local shops used a different brand of hose and fitting. With all of the mistakes, the system cost me almost $300 more than what I paid PSC to begin with.
 
#134 ·
Im on my 4th PSC p pump in 2 years its like they are disposable units. Nothing wrong with my system i have even taken pics and sent them to lance at PSC and said everything looks fine. I have changed it around a bit adding a custon gallon compacity resi with a 24" derale heat sink cooler, all royal purple fluid and still burn up pumps. Its not just me another buddy of mine has gone through 3 also. I cant get a pump to last. I really wanna know how people are keeping the PSC pumps alive. I will admit the customer service of PSC is by FAR the best company I have ever dealt with. Thinking about taking my business to Howe so i dont have to deal with it anymore :mad3:
 
#137 ·
I have sold countless PSC systems with nothing but joy. Only two customers have ever had issues. 1 was resolved with a quick shipment. The other was the same situation you're in. After 3 years and 7 (I think it was more like 11) pumps (all different kinds, brands etc) all getting destroyed by heat. Exact same everything as at least 7 other rigs I've done and wheel with all the time. I ultimately decided to replace his ram and orbital as those were the only things in the entire system that weren't replaced or upgrade. Reason? I believe the ram or orbital was bypassing and putting pressure on the opposing side of the ram making the pump work twice as hard to do the same work. We'll see if the problem is resolved after he takes it out. He would destroy a pump every couple of trips. We'll see what psc says when it gets back to them next week. I sure hope I'm right and I bet they do too. lol

Overall I'm very satisfied w/ PSC. I have tons of their product in use and very little issue. Definitely plenty of howe people have gone to psc through me. Almost had one go the other way but I think he's dialed now.
 
#139 ·
All I know is PSC really takes care of their customers. We were @ King of the Hammers (as spectators) and broke the input shaft on a saginaw steering pump while we were screwing around in the lake bed (doing doughnuts :p). Lance from PSC rebuilt our pump in their race trailer that night and got us back in business for the next day. The pump was NOT from PSC, but we are now comfortable with the fact that it has all PSC components in it, and Lance earned a customer for life!
Thank you PSC for keep'n it real. :smokin:
 
#140 ·
I ordered my steering setup from PSC on Tuesday afternoon. figured I would order it as early as possible expecting it to take a week or 2 at least. Just walked back in my office from lunch and it is all sitting here. Awesome deal and super knowledgeable. they walked me through the process and helped me build the kit i needed. Awesome seller! Thanks guys!
 
#146 ·
My Jeep shows a PSC hydro assist ram, box but the power steering pump and reservoir are HOWE. So what is going on here?

Any thoughts?
That is because the Howe resevoir and pump flow better. The Howe res. has a bigger input tube than the one PSC made at the time and their pumps hold up longer, build more pressure, and last longer. Having the filter on the res. can just helps keep the fluid clean, which keeps the seals lasting longer in the pump. The previous owner probably switched to Howe after blowing up PSC pumps and dealing with a ventilation issues on PSC resevoirs.
 
#142 ·
Since this has been brought back to life from July.....

I broke two input shafts on Ps pumps from PSC. Once deep in the Fordyce trail, the other at Moonrocks ( I drove my rig there 60 miles one way ). PSC was zero help to me, I just kept replacing the shafts. They told me dont peel out and crank the wheel into the stop. Well guess what genius at PSC, I have hydroboost and merely put the brakes on when it snapped the second time.

Running all howe stuff now, box, ram, res, pump, cooler. Screw PSC
 
#143 ·
I think what you have is a hybrid system of a PSC ram and Howe pump & reservoir.


Try to clean all of the black specs off of you heep and you should be fine!








:flipoff2:
 
#145 ·
We run PSC. We have never even thought about any other company. PSC has never let us down. They have the best support, service and knowledge we could ask for. We have had our setup on our stock mod rig for 3 goin on 4 years now. 3 full seasons of MOROC, R-Rock, WE-Rock, trail riding and local competitons. Crawling or Haulin... PSC has the stuff to get you where your going. Call Tom, Lance, Kelvin or anyone else whos awnsers. They will be happy to talk you through several setups and help you decide which is best for your application. They have continued to design new products to make offroading and competition more enjoyable, they have been a huge sponsor for our industry and are always willing to awnser questions and help people out. IMO you couldnt go wrong with PSC. Give em a call and get yourself an affordable system that will provide years of enjoyment.
 
#147 ·
I have a PCS tapped box on my '77 FJ40 and an all Howe full hydro setup on the buggy. I have not had any trouble out of either.

I would love to know how one can just be praising either company and then another, like Keith, has a totally opposite experience with the same company. I wonder if this is a result of all the different people that you could possibly get on the phone at these companies....OR an end user issue....debate on.
 
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