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Old 02-16-2011, 09:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Flipped axles, longevity?

I am looking at a set of flipped dana 60s, go build a mid/ rear engine rock buggy. I am not totally set on this but I really like the idea of a rear engine over a front engine car but this isn't what I want to discuss.

I have heard of people having problems flipping axles in the past, mostly 9's though and this was a while ago. How will a set of flipped 60's hold up running in the desert and in the rocks? I don't plan on making huge power or trying to do 100 mph. I want a solid well powered rig that will take abuse and let us beat on it over and over again. So should I go with a set of junkyard flipped 60s or is there a better choice for axles?

-Alex
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I would do like Adam Woodlee and use 14 bolts. He has beat on his rig a lot and they have held up great.
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Old 02-17-2011, 05:20 AM   #3 (permalink)
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It seems to me that running flipped low-pinion 60s is the way to go. You end up with "hi-pinion" axles in terms of driveshaft clearance, and you're running on the drive side of the gear. A win-win IMO.

The only concern is lubrication, which it seems you can get away with just over-filling. You might talk to "Tydes" on here, as he was/is running flipped 60/70s in his six-shooter moon buggy. I'm pretty sure he didn't make any mods, just filled them up pretty high.
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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With a rear facing engine, so the drive shafts are spinning Backwards a flipped low pinion in the rear which now makes it a HP is still running the gear on the coast side. Weaker.

Think of it this way.
The correct way to run the gears is having the pinion push the ring gear.
If the pinion is pulling the ring gear it is on the wrong/coast side.

Flipping the axle puts the pinion on the opposite side of the ring gear so the drive shaft direction is reversed to make the axle spin the same way but Low pinions in both case push the ring gear in the forward direction.
High pinions in both cases pull the ring gear in the forward direction.
On paper the coast side is 30% weaker.

As for Oiling I've never built a rear engine but I've looked at enough axles.
On the dana's the is an oil dam on the bottom and the top is open to let oil to the pinion but not back. Both the HP and LP are like this.
Now when you flip it it will be backwards. I would at least plug off the bottom and open the top.

Next the pinion preload oil path is supposed to be on the bottom well that is the way it is on all axles I've seen both HP and LP have the pinion preload oil path on the bottom. I don't know how important this is, but that would be very hard to change require fabing a new oil path.

The only good thing you got going for you is that you will be offroad, every different angle and hitting bumps etc which should help the oil get to the pinion bearings. Worst case you need to swap out pinion bearings every so often.

Good luck with your build.
Hope it is not to heavy I know #3400 that waste HP D60 gears once a year. on 39 reds.

~Justin
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:16 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Doh, you're right. I was thinking of the front axle when I posted that.

Seems like a set of Ford 60's with aftermarket knuckles for the front would be the way to go. Put the HP in the rear, upside down, so it would be on the drive side of the gears, and offset to clear the engine. Rotate the inner C's so they're right side up and you'll have rear steer. Put the LP "rear axle" in the front upside down, to get a HP diff. You should get enough added width from adding knuckles that it can be shifted to one side or the other by cutting down one tube or the other.

Confused yet?
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:44 AM   #6 (permalink)
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That ^ made perfect sense.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Are the oiling passages different between a factory front housing vs a rear housing? Obviously the casting is different with the leaf spring purch being there but the oiling holes in my chevy FD60 look purfect for catching the oil slung from the ring gear when used flipped in the rear.

This works well for me since I want a offset rear steer housing for our new single seat, rear facing engine buggy. In the front I am using a 9" and JR did a nice writeup on how to mod them years ago.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I just searched for images but this is what I've only ever seen.

First the upper oil passage no matter HP or LP is open the Bottom is Blocked off but very thin. This is what I was talking about if you flip it I would open up the top and block off the bottom.

Oil passages/Dams Upper one is open lower one is dammed off.
This is a HP but LP look the same.



Now this is what I was talking about the preload bearing oil passage see how on both the LP and HP the pinion preload oil path is on the bottom. Not sure how critical this is.

Low pinion


High pinion
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:36 AM   #9 (permalink)
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so if you flip a low pinion rear mounted 9 inch to use in a rear engined buggy the gear is now driving on the coast side??
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:53 PM   #10 (permalink)
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if you are running the fliped 9 in the front with a rear engine the front will be on the drive side and the fliped LP 60 in the back in on the coast side. flip the 60, pull the cover and turn it backwards by hand and you will see what im talking about. im about to do the same things to my next build.
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Old 04-19-2011, 02:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Over fill the diffs and get on with it. Almost 8 years now, 4 KOH's, a ton of racing, tons of crawling, tons of trailriding with my flipped 9's. I've broken one R&P with water in the tires, roasted one pinion bearing (disclaimer: I told the guys to fill the diffs and thats what they did, didnt overfill them and I roasted the bearing breaking in the gears). Offroad we hit so many bumps, offcamber a ton and we are not putting 700 hp to the ground or doing 100mph for extended periods of time. I'd get them and run them into the ground.
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:02 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laproscopic View Post
so if you flip a low pinion rear mounted 9 inch to use in a rear engined buggy the gear is now driving on the coast side??


Yes. same as using a High Pinion Dana60 in the rear.
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:48 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Preach it DOUG!!

I agree, some times people think to much, add a little extra lube and enjoy!!
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