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Old 06-07-2011, 10:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Alternative to the wobble stopper

Interested if there is an alternative to the over-priced wobble stopper from kartek? Is there anyone else making them or something similar? Maybe there is a quaility bushing set-up that lasts and accepts 3/4 bolt?
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Old 06-07-2011, 10:32 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I run Poly performance bushings, I have seen them last on trailing arms for decent periods of time. I would say if you going through bushing constantly I would machine some delrin to replace the poly.

I looked at the wobble stoppers too and they seemed over priced so I went bushings. You can also build an arm to keep the link from rotating assuming that your mounting C/O on the link.
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Old 06-07-2011, 01:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm using wobble stoppers on my rear links since I have $$$$$$$ of shocks mounted to them.

In the front however I have a bent link that needed some wobble stopping. I also used the poly performance bushings and bored out the sleeve to accept a 3/4" bolt.

Check it:




Still plenty of meat on the bone.
This is what the link looks like...


I hope they last a while. If not, a stock rubber jeep control arm bushing will press into the poly sleeve. They're pretty tough too.
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Old 06-07-2011, 02:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Ballistic sells bushings with 3/4" bore sleeves. Weldable or threaded shank.
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Old 06-07-2011, 04:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I would say if you going through bushing constantly I would machine some delrin to replace the poly.
So do they flex side to side and rotate? or just rotate?
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I tried poly's bushings on my trailing arms then jeep control arm bushings and both failed in short order (about a race each). We machined up delrin bushings instead and they have lasted about 5 races now with more life in them. you can get more info in my build thread in the sig.

Some of the desert guys don't like a delrin or uhmw solution and your can search on posts by triaged for reasons but they have worked great for me.
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Old 06-07-2011, 08:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I've read about the uhmw spacers people are using on their shock mounts at the trailing arm. I saw shannons koh rig running these without wobble stoppers. Seems like an easy solutionj

I wonder how much stress these uhmw spacers pu on the shocks?
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Old 06-07-2011, 09:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I have a tough time understanding how a part is overpriced when it works flawlessly and requires less maintainence than any other joint out there. I dread every time I walk into Kartek because I know it's going to be $500 minimum, no matter what I'm buying... but I use 4 different kind of RE/uniball joint on my car, and the wobble stoppers outlast the rest 3 to 1 easily.

Good on you if you can find something that works better for cheaper though.
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Hey Dave! haven't talked in a while. I kinda dropped the scene for a bit and have been r&d ing. I only pop in here once or twice a year. Anyway the wobble joint just has to rotate 360 degrees and it's slotted to allow some travel side to side? That's it? and it uses a uniball inside. Pressed in?
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepRecoveryTeam View Post
I have a tough time understanding how a part is overpriced when it works flawlessly and requires less maintainence than any other joint out there. I dread every time I walk into Kartek because I know it's going to be $500 minimum, no matter what I'm buying... but I use 4 different kind of RE/uniball joint on my car, and the wobble stoppers outlast the rest 3 to 1 easily.

Good on you if you can find something that works better for cheaper though.

I agree completely, they are not overpriced. But they do bring the budget out of a budget build. And I can't even get in the mind set that every time I walk into Poly P( My kartek) I am going to spend $500.

But I am sure one day

I am curious if anyone has used the " grease-able" poly bushings and still have failure? I went with bushing because building a duel sport rig is $$$$ as it is. And in a duel triangular four link the joints see less degrees of twist so I figured I would get a season or more out of it then make some delrin or the like during the off season.
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Old 06-08-2011, 09:49 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Im a fan of wobble stoppers as i believe bushings and all other alternatives suck but i do think $400 bucks is alittle pricey for a pair of wobble stoppers. I guess what im more suprised about is that nobody else is making something like it.
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Old 06-08-2011, 10:47 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Polyurethane bushings because they transmit a lot less missalignment force to the mount then derlin or harder materials. The ones I use are $8 each so I can change them 25 times for the price of a wobble stopper and if you are blowing up bushings fast there is a design problem. The Axle end hiem needs to be able to take 100% of the missalignment with out bind and you need to machine the load sleave .010" longer then the assembled bushing width. There are some other factors but those are the 2 that kill most bushings.

wayne

edit; added a 0 behind the .
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Old 06-08-2011, 10:49 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Hey Dave! haven't talked in a while. I kinda dropped the scene for a bit and have been r&d ing. I only pop in here once or twice a year. Anyway the wobble joint just has to rotate 360 degrees and it's slotted to allow some travel side to side? That's it? and it uses a uniball inside. Pressed in?
its slotted to allow minimize movement to 2 axis of rotation, not 3. best pic i could find
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:33 AM   #14 (permalink)
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its slotted to allow minimize movement to 2 axis of rotation, not 3. best pic i could find
Ok it limits it to up and down side to side. The part I'm having troubles with is the missalignment spacer. It just rattles off the slot sides? That and the positioning. Parallel or horizontal to the trailing arm? Last but not least is the body 4130 or 1018-1020? I thought I saw somewhere that the caps were aluminum. Every time I search I just find other posts telling other people to search leading to other posts telling those people to search.
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:35 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Yes the "wobble stopper" makes your link kind of work like a drive shaft; It can move all around but not rotate.

I DO think that they are way over priced.

I have asked Ballistic to build a competitive unit but nothing yet.

I think that if there is another product that does the same thing (not restrict any movement but not allow rotation), but has a cost of ~$100 each they would sell. I think because of the price people look into other options.
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:39 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Ok it limits it to up and down side to side. The part I'm having troubles with is the missalignment spacer. It just rattles off the slot sides? That and the positioning. Parallel or horizontal to the trailing arm? Last but not least is the body 4130 or 1018-1020? I thought I saw somewhere that the caps were aluminum. Every time I search I just find other posts telling other people to search leading to other posts telling those people to search.
And it does have a but of rotational movement, it has a small gap in the spacers. Probably have a .010 of play. When I had a new one in my hand at Kartek.
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Old 06-08-2011, 12:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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so I need to know the mounting position. Slots horizontal or vertical to the arm? and mounting width? 2.775? 2.75? wider narrower?

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Old 06-08-2011, 12:45 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Horizontal to the link. those slots are there to allow side to side movement. and to resist rotation.
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Old 06-08-2011, 12:57 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Polyurethane bushings because they transmit a lot less missalignment force to the mount then derlin or harder materials. The ones I use are $8 each so I can change them 25 times for the price of a wobble stopper and if you are blowing up bushings fast there is a design problem. The Axle end hiem needs to be able to take 100% of the missalignment with out bind and you need to machine the load sleave .010" longer then the assembled bushing width. There are some other factors but those are the 2 that kill most bushings.

wayne

edit; added a 0 behind the .

I thought 0.100" seamed like alot
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Old 06-08-2011, 12:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I tried poly's bushings on my trailing arms then jeep control arm bushings and both failed in short order (about a race each). We machined up delrin bushings instead and they have lasted about 5 races now with more life in them. you can get more info in my build thread in the sig.

Some of the desert guys don't like a delrin or uhmw solution and your can search on posts by triaged for reasons but they have worked great for me.
Dave,

Didin't you also change you mounts so they were inline with the link as well as go to the delrin?
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:05 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I thought 0.100" seamed like alot
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:06 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Dave,

Didin't you also change you mounts so they were inline with the link as well as go to the delrin?
Cause #3 and having the tabs smaller then the bushing is #4
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:22 PM   #23 (permalink)
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The links were about 4-5 degrees from straight on the chassis side mounts. Meaning they were always slightly in bind when I was running poly bushings. So rather than redo the chassis I angled the new end cup on the trailing arms to be tapered 4-5 degrees to the rest of the trailing arms and perfectly perpendicular to the bolt as well as parallel to the chassis tabs. Since the cups I welded on the trailing arms were shapped for XJ control bushings that Clayton OffRoad runs I tried xj control bushings for 1 RCrocs race plus some pre-running at the Badlands and they blew up still. We got lucky and had machined up delrin just before the race so we swapped it in before the race at the Badlands and have run the same ever since. We machined a second set for KOH this year but haven't needed to run them and they were fine after all the high speed pre-running at KOH plus the first RCrocs race this yeaer and they ran the Badlands last year plus another RCrocs race. So the delrin doesn't have nearly the miles that guys out west put on their rigs racing but it has way more miles than my xj bushings lasted. I will concede the poly pushing to delrin bushing was not an exact apples to apples comparison.

You could take a weldable johnny joint and add a slotted plate on one side or both (harder to service the joint then unless the plate bolts on that second side) to acheive a "poor man's" wobble stopper. I believe that was what Lucas Murphy said he may try on his new car's trailing arms.

I just see no reason why the Kartek pieces are worth $300 so the free delrin plus my time on the lathe worked for me.

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Dave,

Didin't you also change you mounts so they were inline with the link as well as go to the delrin?
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
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http://www.offroadwarehouse.com/prod...roductID/49840

Is this not the same thing for just over a c-note? Or am I missing something?
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:34 PM   #25 (permalink)
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You have to add the $39.99 normal FK uniball or the $58 stainless ball to the price of each wobble stopper and then multiple all that by 2 which is how you come up with 300 for the pair. or 280 for non stainless and 320 for a pair with stainless ball.

Any way you slice it thats pricey. Certainly I wish my builder had done the trailing arms with the shocks below centerline as I requested but such is life.
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