Ultimate front end thread

[laproscopic]

Just put your motor in back. now your front 9" is a high pinion running on the strong side with normal rotation gears. Way cheap and Stronger than mega high nine.

Incidentally your rear 9" is also now a high pinion running on strong side

[trkklr77]

Originally Posted by camo

This thread is about front ends

oh,


wait,


you cant figure out how to make this into a front...........

its only a matter of money.


crissman center + some of thise spanky water pump ujoints i have at work + welderboy custom knuckles + zf 20:1 portals.........

[camo]

Originally Posted by trkklr77

oh,


wait,


you cant figure out how to make this into a front...........

its only a matter of money.


crissman center + some of thise spanky water pump ujoints i have at work + welderboy custom knuckles + zf 20:1 portals.........

What u joint and axle yoke will you use with a 2.56" shaft ?

What pinion gear is going to hold that 2.56 " axle shaft strength ?

how are you going to to get the 2.56" stub shaft through a spindle ?

And what hub fits that 2.56" stub spline ?

welder boy knuckles fit a 60 stub- ujoint .... Not the massive yokes befitting a 2.56" axle shaft.

[wap]

Originally Posted by camo

First and most important question.

What is your budget ?

Havent put a real number on it but if i have to take longer to build it (due to cost) I will. Like everyone i know I would like to do it as cheap as possible but also know a custom front isnt goin to be had for 2 grand either.

Kind of like price, I would like to keep weight to a minimum but strength is more important to me than weight. I would rather but stuck/hung up because of weight and winch out than be broken on the trial.

My intended use is everything but being in the southeast I wont be going to places like moab any time soon. So mainly southeast trails and some mud here and there.

[trkklr77]

Originally Posted by camo

What u joint and axle yoke will you use with a 2.56" shaft ?

What pinion gear is going to hold that 2.56 " axle shaft strength ?

how are you going to to get the 2.56" stub shaft through a spindle ?

And what hub fits that 2.56" stub spline ?

welder boy knuckles fit a 60 stub- ujoint .... Not the massive yokes befitting a 2.56" axle shaft.

is inginuity and and custom not in your realm of comprehension?

[Xjcrawler736]

I believe CrawfishStu is running the following setup

- Front and Rear Steering Spydertrax 9" Housings
- Spydertrax Fabricated C's and Knuckles
- Spydertrax Unit Bearings
- Spydertrax Brake Hats and Rotors
- Willwood 4 Piston Calipers
- Dual Willwood Master Cylinders with Dual Pedals and Swagelok Parking Brake
- Ouverson Engineering 300m 40 Spline Shafts Milled for Extra Steering
- Ouverson Engineering 2.5 ton Universal Joints
- Front and Rear Spools
- Front Hi9 with 4.56 Gears
- Rear Strange Engineering Ultra Housing with 4.56 Gears
/forum/general-4x4-discussion/968893-bottoms-up-rock-racing-504-continual-rebuild.html

Switching over to the 10" TT gears, you would have a damn near bullet proof setup. I am not sure you can get Ouverson shafts like that anymore but regardless. Still badass.

[blacksheep10]

Originally Posted by Xjcrawler736

- Spydertrax Fabricated C's and Knuckles

- Ouverson Engineering 300m 40 Spline Shafts Milled for Extra Steering
- Ouverson Engineering 2.5 ton Universal Joints
I am not sure you can get Ouverson shafts like that anymore but regardless. Still badass.

Or the Spider 1550 knuckles to fit them.

[79fordcrew4x4]

I build different versions of ''budget or workin man'' fronts, 14 bolt or 70 front, older dodge housings, some have the old HD 70 knuckles (open), but hard to find, the Reids work well, good 300m shafts, and go beat on it, never had too much failure, mainly due to the heavy foot syndrome and low pinions, shafts and lockouts,, but affordable

[Bigshowdawg]

10" Ring gear isn't going to cut it I don't think, too many 9.75" 60's broke even hp

[Mh4Runner]

Originally Posted by Bigshowdawg

10" Ring gear isn't going to cut it I don't think, too many 9.75" 60's broke even hp

Tough to make strength comparisons of the 10" and the D60 gear sets based solely on ring gear diameter, they have very different hypoid offsets. Not to mention the pinion shaft diameters.

[rockyota83]

Originally Posted by Mh4Runner

Tough to make strength comparisons of the 10" and the D60 gear sets based solely on ring gear diameter, they have very different hypoid offsets. Not to mention the pinion shaft diameters.

and TT gears are made of different(stronger?) metal are they not?


also ford 9"(10") have the extra 3rd bearing support which imo helps with pinion deflection

[Dblstkd]

Originally Posted by rockyota83

and TT gears are made of different(stronger?) metal are they not?


also ford 9"(10") have the extra 3rd bearing support which imo helps with pinion deflection

In addition to that some like Gear Works here in vegas have a load bolt as well.

[dan58]

Originally Posted by Xjcrawler736

I believe CrawfishStu is running the following setup

- Front and Rear Steering Spydertrax 9" Housings
- Spydertrax Fabricated C's and Knuckles
- Spydertrax Unit Bearings
- Spydertrax Brake Hats and Rotors
- Willwood 4 Piston Calipers
- Dual Willwood Master Cylinders with Dual Pedals and Swagelok Parking Brake
- Ouverson Engineering 300m 40 Spline Shafts Milled for Extra Steering
- Ouverson Engineering 2.5 ton Universal Joints
- Front and Rear Spools
- Front Hi9 with 4.56 Gears
- Rear Strange Engineering Ultra Housing with 4.56 Gears
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=968893

Switching over to the 10" TT gears, you would have a damn near bullet proof setup. I am not sure you can get Ouverson shafts like that anymore but regardless. Still badass.

They're about as pimped as anything I've ever seen.

[camo]

Originally Posted by trkklr77

is inginuity and and custom not in your realm of comprehension?

it is, that is why I am calling bullshit on your non sense post.

try posting at least semi viable tech and not just spew shit from your key board.

either contribute to the wealth of knowledge and add something of value or STFU.

[kiyul4130]

Originally Posted by wap

Havent put a real number on it but if i have to take longer to build it (due to cost) I will. Like everyone i know I would like to do it as cheap as possible but also know a custom front isnt goin to be had for 2 grand either.

Kind of like price, I would like to keep weight to a minimum but strength is more important to me than weight. I would rather but stuck/hung up because of weight and winch out than be broken on the trial.

My intended use is everything but being in the southeast I wont be going to places like moab any time soon. So mainly southeast trails and some mud here and there.

honestly, it sounds like to me you need to just buy a $75 14 bolt. turn it into a front end, and stuff it with birfs and youll be more than fine. thats a shit ton of strength and i doubt you would break that axle. you'd be having issues else where.

[gmcxt]

Originally Posted by Bigshowdawg

10" Ring gear isn't going to cut it I don't think, too many 9.75" 60's broke even hp

Ive been wanting a Jana87 front out of a Dana 70HD rear with 60 outters. 11" ring gear with the clearance of a 60 and high pinion to boot. seems like it could have good potential for high strength and low cost.

Everybodys got a 14bolt front

[KyTrash]

I have never saw a HP 80. Does Dana even make a Hi-pinion 80? How does a LP 70 match up to 14 bolt in strength?

[wap]

Originally Posted by kiyul4130

honestly, it sounds like to me you need to just buy a $75 14 bolt. turn it into a front end, and stuff it with birfs and youll be more than fine. thats a shit ton of strength and i doubt you would break that axle. you'd be having issues else where.

Youre probably right and more than likely thats what I will end up doing if for no other reason than it is strong as hell and cheap (relatively speaking).

Never seen a hp80 either, pretty sure there is no such thing.

I dont think a lp70 is as strong as a 14b but couldnt say. Id be more interested in how an HP70 compares to a 14b for strength in a front app. Wish someone had some concrete info on that instead of stating theory.

[patooyee]

Originally Posted by wap

Youre probably right and more than likely thats what I will end up doing if for no other reason than it is strong as hell and cheap (relatively speaking).

Never seen a hp80 either, pretty sure there is no such thing.

I dont think a lp70 is as strong as a 14b but couldnt say. Id be more interested in how an HP70 compares to a 14b for strength in a front app. Wish someone had some concrete info on that instead of stating theory.

A 70 still has a 29-spline pinion, same as a 60, whereas the 14-bolt has 31. Being that many people have busted 60 pinions at the spline I would say that a 14-bolt will be stronger.

J. J.

[wap]

Originally Posted by patooyee

A 70 still has a 23-spline pinion, same as a 60, whereas the 14-bolt has 31. Being that many people have busted 60 pinions at the spline I would say that a 14-bolt will be stronger.

J. J.

I was unaware the 70 was a 23 spline, thanks for the edjumacation

[patooyee]

To me a 60 and a 70 are about in the same class because they share most of the same weak points. A 14-bolt and 80 are the next step up IMO because they are next ones to get bigger pinion shafts (about equal in size). Gerstner swears that an 80 is way stronger than a 14-bolt because of the ring gear size and also because it is the only one of the bunch that was computer designed and has all the stress analysis design advantages. He says some of his customers who tear up 14-bolts pulling sleds can't tear up 80's. Lots of people debate that but ultimately I think you couldn't tear up an 80 or a 14-bolt.

J. J.

[az-k5]

Originally Posted by patooyee

. . . He says some of his customers who tear up 14-bolts pulling sleds can't tear up 80's. Lots of people debate that but ultimately I think you couldn't tear up an 80 or a 14-bolt.

J. J.

I don't believe there are any sled puller's removing D80's for 14FF (but I am not that into the truck pulls so I may be wrong)

I think a 14FF front is the easiest/strongest of the home built/custom front ends and after a shave kit the only downside is the LP.

[patooyee]

Originally Posted by az-k5

I don't believe there are any sled puller's removing D80's for 14FF (but I am not that into the truck pulls so I may be wrong)

I think a 14FF front is the easiest/strongest of the home built/custom front ends and after a shave kit the only downside is the LP.

The way I understood him was the other way around, removing 14-bolts and replacing with 80's. Or maybe he meant that trucks with similar power numbers were tearing up 14-bolts and not 80's? (Search his name and you'll see.) Point is he thinks 80s are stronger. An 80 pinion is also more centered in the housing itself making it easier to get a little more axle tube on a passenger offset front end than a 14-bolt.

J. J.

[patooyee]

Here you go, Steve's statements from the past that pertain to this:

Cool pic posted here: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showp...1&postcount=88

Originally Posted by steve gerstner

I am building a dana 80 rear right now for a customer, he has broken 7, 14 bolt gears sets in a row, yes 7 sets. They last only 2 pulls. He does not do rock crawling but sled pulling with a small block ford ranger. You generate torque only through resistance and the second part of this formula is shock load. The GM 14 bolt paten wrights were bought in 1958, ford bought there wrights in 1954 to make the 9" - the same paten for both. The hybrd 9" is up to 3500 hp. Where is the 14 bolt. You love your 14 bolt fine, the only reason people use'un is because they are cheap and everywhere. On the right is the famous 14 bolt on the left is a little 9", both the same ratio, just modified.???

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showp...3&postcount=42

Originally Posted by steve gerstner

That is a very good question, i do not have any pics of the 14 bolt tooth but i have seen enough of them broken. The slope of the tooth ( begain production in 1958) on the drive side is about 10*, the slope on the coast side is like 30* ( bad pushaway) and this would be the new drive side running backwards- WHY? The dana 80 begain production in 1982 and was the very first computer tooth desgin, called the phoenix cut. The ford HP dana 60 rev. is stronger than a dana 70 running backs.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showp...8&postcount=37

Originally Posted by steve gerstner

Yea it turns the right way, but it is the biggest P.O.S. ever made, what a waste of time and money. The slope of the 14 bolt ring gear tooth driving on the coast side sucks, it will not last long. A dana 80 front will eat a 14 bolt for lunch.

I would say he feels fairly strongly about 80's over 14-bolts.

J. J.

[gmcxt]

Originally Posted by KyTrash

I have never saw a HP 80. Does Dana even make a Hi-pinion 80?

With the Jana 87 you fit dana 80 gears in a dana 70 housing. I was talking about building one of these out of a dana 70 rear axle, when you make it a front axle you flip it upside down makeing it a High pinion 80. your running on the back side of the teeth but thats a whole nother thread....