MAJOR tie rod install issue...HELP

[the freeak]

Originally Posted by jtaco1

Just did my drag link for my axle. Lubed the hell out of the threads with anti sieze and installed the heim. Tacked the insert in three spots and then went back and welded it up in one pass. Once welding complete, immediately dunked in bucket of water until the water stopped bubbling and could touch the insert. No problems with threading the heim in or out.

Used heims and inserts from RuffStuff.

you were lucky.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by moparmaniaccuda

Did you burn the whole thing on in one pass?

I've done 7/8 inserts into 1" ID tubing successfully without a tap.

I do 3-4 1" beads at a time though and let the thing cool throroughly inbetween.

It's a threaded insert, it ain't a piece of art, buy some taps and quit that goofy welding technique.

No need for a tap.

No need until there is. All you gotta do is stick one expensive TRE or Rod End in a threaded insert, spend a couple of hours trying to salvage it before you start over with new parts and a couple of taps is cheap insurance.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by the freeak

you were lucky.

Were you going to tell him that dropping hot welded parts into a bucket of water likely ain't the smartest thing to do with steering parts?

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by DozerDan

Stop using weld in inserts and drill/tap the rod. I still have not seen any insert that has struck me as a good idea. Either get the right id/od material or just drill and tap.

Never liked em.

Great idea, all you gotta do now is teach me how to do that by hand. I've got some 1 1/4-12 into some lower links we can start with.

[the freeak]

Originally Posted by mrblaine

Were you going to tell him that dropping hot welded parts into a bucket of water likely ain't the smartest thing to do with steering parts?

Good point. I missed that.

[jtaco1]

Originally Posted by the freeak

you were lucky.

Originally Posted by mrblaine

Were you going to tell him that dropping hot welded parts into a bucket of water likely ain't the smartest thing to do with steering parts?

Originally Posted by the freeak

Good point. I missed that.

No worries, was informed of this way by a few of the guys I wheel with, that are also on here, and that is what they suggested Seems to be fine. I'll run it and when it fails you guys can tell me you told me so.

[71BRONCO71]

I never thought of using an old TRE as a tap. I';m going to use that idea if that ever happens to me. Thanks Dan


I don't have much input but your TIGs are DAM NICE! I would say just cut the insert out but that weld is to nice to simply get rid of it.

I always use anti seize with the tre threaded into the insert and weld in two 4 passes. (inner weld both sides, finish weld two sides) I always turn the TRE to make sure the insert doesn't get warped. But I'm using a MIG.

[DozerDan]

Originally Posted by mrblaine

Great idea, all you gotta do now is teach me how to do that by hand. I've got some 1 1/4-12 into some lower links we can start with.

Well the owner of the steering is currently paying someone to weld them in since he cant do it himself, so he could have just as easily paid someone to drill and tap them.

Hell esp on a site like this. Tons of access to a lathe. You can even do it with just a bridgeport with a bit of thinking.

[moparmaniaccuda]

Originally Posted by mrblaine

It's a threaded insert, it ain't a piece of art, buy some taps and quit that goofy welding technique.

I didn't realize having patience was an art

Originally Posted by mrblaine

No need until there is. All you gotta do is stick one expensive TRE or Rod End in a threaded insert, spend a couple of hours trying to salvage it before you start over with new parts and a couple of taps is cheap insurance.

I'll let you know if that happens.

Until then continue to be bothered by the fact I don't use taps for this

[the freeak]

Originally Posted by jtaco1

No worries, was informed of this way by a few of the guys I wheel with, that are also on here, and that is what they suggested Seems to be fine. I'll run it and when it fails you guys can tell me you told me so.

It's just that cooling a welded part like that can undesirable results.

From Wikipedia (because I was in a hurry)

"Extremely rapid cooling can prevent the formation of all crystal structure, resulting in amorphous metal or 'metallic glass'."

Further research found the following:

"Benefits of heat treating"

I'll quote from that article:

Martensite Formation & Tempering

When austenite is rapidly cooled (i.e. quenched) to room temperature, an unexpected phase transformation can occur. Instead of forming ferrite and pearlite or cementite and pearlite, austenite can transform to martensite, a highly stressed body-centered-tetragonal (BCT) phase. This reaction is not diffusion-controlled but rather takes place by a shear-type transformation and is only a function of temperature and not time. The result is a very hard but brittle microstructure. The hardness of the martensite depends on the carbon content of the austenite. The martensite and the austenite it came from have the same chemical composition.

Basically, when you cool a recently welded part that rapidly, you drastically increase the chances of creating a brittle weld.
Brittle welds in a steering component are especially bad.

[jtaco1]

the freeak - I appreciate that you provided the above information instead of just telling me I'm a dumbass, eventhough I may be

So lets say that I did cause a brittle weld. Anyway to verify in a home based shop, other than say x-ray? Or just wait for it to boom at the shittiest time on the trail

The welds look just like the other welds I have made before?

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by jtaco1

the freeak - I appreciate that you provided the above information instead of just telling me I'm a dumbass, eventhough I may be

So lets say that I did cause a brittle weld. Anyway to verify in a home based shop, other than say x-ray? Or just wait for it to boom at the shittiest time on the trail

The welds look just like the other welds I have made before?

Some stock pitman arms are forgings. It used to be common for me to tell folks how I heat and bend them to flatten them or change angle. Then one day someone who had done what I told him got back to me and said that after he got it installed, he took it out in front of his house and ran up the curb with it. The pitman arm snapped in half. I asked him if he dropped it in a bucket of water to cool it off and he said he had.

I no longer tell folks how to bend pitman arms because it never occurred to me that someone would do that.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by DozerDan

Well the owner of the steering is currently paying someone to weld them in since he cant do it himself, so he could have just as easily paid someone to drill and tap them.

Hell esp on a site like this. Tons of access to a lathe. You can even do it with just a bridgeport with a bit of thinking.

In the meantime, it's easy and very effective to weld in threaded tube adapters and go have fun. My closest access to a lathe big enough to thread 1 1/4" is at least 50 miles and I have to drop it off, wait until he gets to it and then go get it.

Don't get me wrong, I do have some stuff threaded and split, but only when tube OD is an issue.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by moparmaniaccuda

Until then continue to be bothered by the fact I don't use taps for this

And you can be bothered by the fact that I own right and left taps from 1/2-20 to 1 1/4-12 including 7/8-18 and 24mm x 1.0 for some metric stuff.

[mechanicalmongoose20]

Originally Posted by DozerDan

Well the owner of the steering is currently paying someone to weld them in since he cant do it himself, so he could have just as easily paid someone to drill and tap them.

Hell esp on a site like this. Tons of access to a lathe. You can even do it with just a bridgeport with a bit of thinking.

Sounds like someone else is familiar with moving the column and hanging parts off the table.

[mj]

make sure the TRE are not bent
MOOGs are really bad for having bent shanks new outa the box

[DozerDan]

Originally Posted by mrblaine

In the meantime, it's easy and very effective to weld in threaded tube adapters and go have fun. My closest access to a lathe big enough to thread 1 1/4" is at least 50 miles and I have to drop it off, wait until he gets to it and then go get it.

Don't get me wrong, I do have some stuff threaded and split, but only when tube OD is an issue.

Well its a shame your on the wrong side of the states, because I would do it for you for the price of beer, if nothing else for the years of assumement I have enjoyed from your posts

Yes I get the point, and I KNOW you do. But end of the day its kinda like those tie down points that say 'do not weld' its not because they can not be welded on, but because "you" shouldnt...

[the freeak]

Originally Posted by jtaco1

the freeak - I appreciate that you provided the above information instead of just telling me I'm a dumbass, eventhough I may be

So lets say that I did cause a brittle weld. Anyway to verify in a home based shop, other than say x-ray? Or just wait for it to boom at the shittiest time on the trail

The welds look just like the other welds I have made before?

I don't know.

I would GUESS that if they haven't broken YET, that you MIGHT be ok.

If it's trail only, I'd run it, but if you drive it on the street, swap it out.

[jtaco1]

Yeah it is trail only and the axle isn't even under my rig yet

[deano38685]

Originally Posted by mechanicalmongoose20

Sounds like someone else is familiar with moving the column and hanging parts off the table.

1"x8"x16" plate, 8" 3 jaw chuck.... Swing the head over, indicate once and do as many links as you want.....

[BenE]

Originally Posted by deano38685

1"x8"x16" plate, 8" 3 jaw chuck.... Swing the head over, indicate once and do as many links as you want.....

I haven’t had my lathe/mill machine very long, and I am trying to picture what you are describing, so I can do it too.
Could you maybe show a pic for us inexperienced folks?
What is the plate for?

[the freeak]

I think you mount the chuck to the plate, and hang it over the edge of the table.