So, what constitutes a violation of 4th ammendment rights? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

mike · 10-03-2003, 10:50 AM

What's required for a legal search warrant? Who really knows this stuff anyway?

JParuBob · 10-03-2003, 10:51 AM

probable cause?

mike · 10-03-2003, 10:52 AM

What demonstrates probable cause though. I mean just how often are new occupants of a house searched due to the actions of the previous occupants? Just how fricken common is this?

Monkeyboy · 10-03-2003, 10:54 AM

Is 4 month old wrong information probable cause?

mike · 10-03-2003, 10:54 AM

That's tied to a phone line that had a different billing contacts name at the time?

Damage, Inc. · 10-03-2003, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike
What demonstrates probable cause though. I mean just how often are new occupants of a house searched due to the actions of the previous occupants? Just how fricken common is this?

That would likely be thrown out of court, if that's the case. Unless you go before the judge that *issued* the warrant!!

mike · 10-03-2003, 10:57 AM

Well, yea I figured I have nothing serious to worry about. I'm still livid however at being woken up by 25 armed agents and forced to sit in the street in my fawking underwear for absolutely nothing. I understand folks trying to apprehend criminals, but shouldnt some better research go down first?

mike · 10-03-2003, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monkeyboy
Is 4 month old wrong information probable cause?

Dude. more like 8 and 9 months old.

SanDiegoCJ · 10-03-2003, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike
Well, yea I figured I have nothing serious to worry about. I'm still livid however at being woken up by 25 armed agents and forced to sit in the street in my fawking underwear for absolutely nothing. I understand folks trying to apprehend criminals, but shouldnt some better research go down first?

Sounds like you have ample grounds for a lawsuit.

mike · 10-03-2003, 11:13 AM

Thats the thing I'm not a litigous kind of guy so even going there's kinda difficult. I will say everyone was professional enough and appologetic once they realized it was fubar. And they're willing to deal with our neighbors and help out that way, but shit even so what would you think if your newish neighbor was hauled outa his house by a buncha cops. even if the cops told you they had the wrong person would you believe it?

Monkeyboy · 10-03-2003, 11:14 AM

I don't like lawsuits.

You might end up with some money and the lawyer will get most of it.

Fawk them

Lawyers are like TAP in Rancho Cordova

Renee · 10-03-2003, 11:15 AM

We're actually talking about this in my Poli Sci class right now. Since the USAPatriotAct has passed, it is much much easier to get a search warrant, and in some cases, you don't need one at all. Before the act was passed however, all they need is suspicion and/or probable cause, or in some cases, consent.

Berzerker · 10-03-2003, 11:16 AM

Damn! That sucks! What were they looking for?

Oxjockey · 10-03-2003, 11:18 AM

On one of those murder shows, they'd lost their ability to search a house that was sold to new owners without the new owner's permission first.

Don't know what state, or when, but...sounds like they screwed up.

mike · 10-03-2003, 11:19 AM

The warrant basically allowed them to confiscate pretty much anything they wanted to in the house. Computers, electonic media, books, magazines, mailing labels, mailing supplies, mail, you name it. All on a warrant issued by a federal judge on a STREET ADDRESS, I think that's the part that disturbs me the most.

Erich In AZ · 10-03-2003, 11:19 AM

When I was just dating Jen we got pulled out of our car, full felony stop style, with mucho guns pointed right at us due to a 'mistake' in the NCIC (?) computer that showed the car was stolen. This was after the title had been transfered 3 times at the DMV since the alleged theft. Turned out to be a 'Big mis-understanding'

All we got was a 'Oops, sorry'

Our cops here are bad

proletariat · 10-03-2003, 11:19 AM

Ask for some business cards (aka get out of speeding ticket free cards). They owe you that much. You'd probably be better off letting it go if it was an honest mistake. What would really suck is if they broke into an innocent person's house that is prepared to defend against unannounced invaders , and someone got shot. Irrelevant to this story, but it would suck just the same.

mike · 10-03-2003, 11:20 AM

This wasn't local PD guys. This was 2 federal lettered agencies.

Oxjockey · 10-03-2003, 11:21 AM

Call the local news channels. Then make your neighbors watch.

mike · 10-03-2003, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by proletariat
Ask for some business cards (aka get out of speeding ticket free cards). They owe you that much. You'd probably be better off letting it go if it was an honest mistake. What would really suck is if they broke into an innocent person's house that is prepared to defend against unannounced invaders , and someone got shot. Irrelevant to this story, but it would suck just the same.

umm dude, i was about 3 seconds away from grabbing a firearm when my wife opened the door and there were cops all over the place.

Travis Waldher · 10-03-2003, 11:22 AM

MAN... that sucks!

That's all I got to say...

Travis Waldher · 10-03-2003, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mike
This wasn't local PD guys. This was 2 federal lettered agencies.

Hmm..

FBI
DEA

wanna confirm?

Being feds... I would seriously get a lawyer. It'de be worth the suit, even if the lawyer got most. I hold fed agents to a higher standard than local police. They should have done their job and checked their sources.

Erich In AZ · 10-03-2003, 11:24 AM

This is pretty good show, taped in 1995'ish about how the government can take pretty much anything they want without much cause. It was released bye the A&E network. It's called 'Seized by the law'. I highly recommend seeing this.

http://www.internet-store-discount.c...ed_By_the_Law/

proletariat · 10-03-2003, 11:30 AM

I changed my mind. In your position I'd be very pissed as well (it's easy to sympathize w/ the coppers from this desk chair). I can see following it up if it was Federal people. Maybe try the chain of command thing first instead of insta-suite.

rusted · 10-03-2003, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Erich In AZ
This is pretty good show, taped in 1995'ish about how the government can take pretty much anything they want without much cause. It was released bye the A&E network. It's called 'Seized by the law'. I highly recommend seeing this.

http://www.internet-store-discount.c...ed_By_the_Law/

That is a great show, and an excellent reccomendation.

mike, WTF? You should be on the phone with an attorney. This is not really your decision now is it? IMO you're obligated to hold your government accountable.

10-03-2003, 10:50 AM	#1 (permalink)
mike Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 144 Location: Northern Mexico... er.. AriDzona Posts: 6,867	So, what constitutes a violation of 4th ammendment rights? What's required for a legal search warrant? Who really knows this stuff anyway? __________________ That's because you're a pinko fascist. - Haole I know what antidisestablishmentarianist means

10-03-2003, 10:52 AM	#3 (permalink)
mike Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 144 Location: Northern Mexico... er.. AriDzona Posts: 6,867	What demonstrates probable cause though. I mean just how often are new occupants of a house searched due to the actions of the previous occupants? Just how fricken common is this? __________________ That's because you're a pinko fascist. - Haole I know what antidisestablishmentarianist means

10-03-2003, 10:54 AM	#4 (permalink)
Monkeyboy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2000 Member # 1169 Location: Antioch, CA. Posts: 7,124	Is 4 month old wrong information probable cause? __________________ It was even more of a turn on when I found out she was doing me to buy baby formula

10-03-2003, 10:54 AM	#5 (permalink)
mike Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 144 Location: Northern Mexico... er.. AriDzona Posts: 6,867	That's tied to a phone line that had a different billing contacts name at the time? __________________ That's because you're a pinko fascist. - Haole I know what antidisestablishmentarianist means

10-03-2003, 10:57 AM	#7 (permalink)
mike Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 144 Location: Northern Mexico... er.. AriDzona Posts: 6,867	Well, yea I figured I have nothing serious to worry about. I'm still livid however at being woken up by 25 armed agents and forced to sit in the street in my fawking underwear for absolutely nothing. I understand folks trying to apprehend criminals, but shouldnt some better research go down first? __________________ That's because you're a pinko fascist. - Haole I know what antidisestablishmentarianist means

10-03-2003, 11:13 AM	#10 (permalink)
mike Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 144 Location: Northern Mexico... er.. AriDzona Posts: 6,867	Thats the thing I'm not a litigous kind of guy so even going there's kinda difficult. I will say everyone was professional enough and appologetic once they realized it was fubar. And they're willing to deal with our neighbors and help out that way, but shit even so what would you think if your newish neighbor was hauled outa his house by a buncha cops. even if the cops told you they had the wrong person would you believe it? __________________ That's because you're a pinko fascist. - Haole I know what antidisestablishmentarianist means

10-03-2003, 11:14 AM	#11 (permalink)
Monkeyboy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2000 Member # 1169 Location: Antioch, CA. Posts: 7,124	I don't like lawsuits. You might end up with some money and the lawyer will get most of it. Fawk them Lawyers are like TAP in Rancho Cordova __________________ It was even more of a turn on when I found out she was doing me to buy baby formula

10-03-2003, 11:16 AM	#13 (permalink)
Berzerker Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 35 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 3,431	Damn! That sucks! What were they looking for? __________________ The best things in life aren't things! -Adam

10-03-2003, 11:18 AM	#14 (permalink)
Oxjockey Registered User Join Date: Sep 2001 Member # 7163 Location: PA Posts: 1,863	On one of those murder shows, they'd lost their ability to search a house that was sold to new owners without the new owner's permission first. Don't know what state, or when, but...sounds like they screwed up.

10-03-2003, 11:19 AM	#15 (permalink)
mike Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 144 Location: Northern Mexico... er.. AriDzona Posts: 6,867	The warrant basically allowed them to confiscate pretty much anything they wanted to in the house. Computers, electonic media, books, magazines, mailing labels, mailing supplies, mail, you name it. All on a warrant issued by a federal judge on a STREET ADDRESS, I think that's the part that disturbs me the most. __________________ That's because you're a pinko fascist. - Haole I know what antidisestablishmentarianist means

10-03-2003, 11:19 AM	#16 (permalink)
Erich In AZ Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Member # 10994 Location: Tucson, Az Posts: 2,926	When I was just dating Jen we got pulled out of our car, full felony stop style, with mucho guns pointed right at us due to a 'mistake' in the NCIC (?) computer that showed the car was stolen. This was after the title had been transfered 3 times at the DMV since the alleged theft. Turned out to be a 'Big mis-understanding' All we got was a 'Oops, sorry' Our cops here are bad __________________ [url]www.wheelingarizona.com[/url] [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SilverZuk [/i] [B]I always heard this is an Extreme Rockcrawling site, but I just come here to make fun of people. [/B][/QUOTE]

10-03-2003, 11:19 AM	#17 (permalink)
proletariat Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Member # 19263 Location: PA Posts: 354	Ask for some business cards (aka get out of speeding ticket free cards). They owe you that much. You'd probably be better off letting it go if it was an honest mistake. What would really suck is if they broke into an innocent person's house that is prepared to defend against unannounced invaders , and someone got shot. Irrelevant to this story, but it would suck just the same.

10-03-2003, 11:20 AM	#18 (permalink)
mike Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 144 Location: Northern Mexico... er.. AriDzona Posts: 6,867	This wasn't local PD guys. This was 2 federal lettered agencies. __________________ That's because you're a pinko fascist. - Haole I know what antidisestablishmentarianist means

10-03-2003, 11:21 AM	#19 (permalink)
Oxjockey Registered User Join Date: Sep 2001 Member # 7163 Location: PA Posts: 1,863	Call the local news channels. Then make your neighbors watch.

10-03-2003, 11:22 AM	#21 (permalink)
Travis Waldher Pirate4x4 Addict! Join Date: May 2001 Member # 4878 Location: Bremerton, WA Posts: 7,523	MAN... that sucks! That's all I got to say...

10-03-2003, 11:24 AM	#23 (permalink)
Erich In AZ Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Member # 10994 Location: Tucson, Az Posts: 2,926	This is pretty good show, taped in 1995'ish about how the government can take pretty much anything they want without much cause. It was released bye the A&E network. It's called 'Seized by the law'. I highly recommend seeing this. http://www.internet-store-discount.c...ed_By_the_Law/ __________________ [url]www.wheelingarizona.com[/url] [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SilverZuk [/i] [B]I always heard this is an Extreme Rockcrawling site, but I just come here to make fun of people. [/B][/QUOTE]

10-03-2003, 11:30 AM	#24 (permalink)
proletariat Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Member # 19263 Location: PA Posts: 354	I changed my mind. In your position I'd be very pissed as well (it's easy to sympathize w/ the coppers from this desk chair). I can see following it up if it was Federal people. Maybe try the chain of command thing first instead of insta-suite.

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