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Old 04-16-2012, 05:22 PM   #101 (permalink)
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So was the 5 day trip to Hawaii for 2 to attend a 1 hour ribbon cutting waste? Or is that open to discretion also?
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:25 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Piggy has officially lost the "right" to bitch... Holy crap.

And BRB - I really don't think the 5th applies in this case - it's technically not a criminal proceeding.
Giving testimony in a trial or other legal proceeding that could subject one to criminal prosecution.

The right against self-incrimination forbids the government from compelling any person to give testimonial evidence that would likely incriminate him during a subsequent criminal case. This right enables a defendant to refuse to testify at a criminal trial and "privileges him not to answer official questions put to him in any other proceeding, civil or criminal, formal or informal, where the answers might incriminate him in future criminal proceedings" (Lefkowitz v. Turley, 414 U.S. 70, 94 S. Ct. 316, 38 L. Ed. 2d 274 [1973]).

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...-Incrimination
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:27 PM   #103 (permalink)
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And BRB - I really don't think the 5th applies in this case - it's technically not a criminal proceeding.
Umm, he advocates public sectors employees losing the right to protect themselves against self incrimination. That right there is a fundamental right of all in this country, doesn't matter if they are Joe Blow CPA or Joe Dirt white trash tweaker.

That position is more wrong than two boys fucking in church. It's more unconstitutional than ObamaCare and it's flat out bullshit. I could pull case decisions out of my ass that would explain why shit like that don't fly in this country and anyone who's political thought process falls somewhere in between Stalin and Hitler should be hammering to dog shit out of anyone who believes such crap. I'm pretty tolerant about a lot of stuff, but to opine that someone should lose a fundamental right that all of us Americans enjoy just because of the job we work is not only bullshit, but it's unAmerican.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:30 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Is it possible to get in trouble for claiming the 5th if you aren't involved or is that contempt?

Say you were protecting your kid or something like that.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:33 PM   #105 (permalink)
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And BRB - I really don't think the 5th applies in this case - it's technically not a criminal proceeding.
It's been going on since the 50's and McCarthyism. It happened earlier this year with Operation Fast And Furious, Solyndra last year, Enron. . .just to name a few.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:34 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Umm, he advocates public sectors employees losing the right to protect themselves against self incrimination. That right there is a fundamental right of all in this country, doesn't matter if they are Joe Blow CPA or Joe Dirt white trash tweaker.
Relative to claiming the 5th for accounting for what gov't is doing is hard to argue with.

Relative to a personal incident resulting in the need to claim the 5th - I agree with you.

If we allow all elected officials and their appointees to claim the 5th in reporting what the gov't is doing, we no longer have any control over the government - they will have zero accountability.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:40 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Relative to claiming the 5th for accounting for what gov't is doing is hard to argue with.
That is all I am advocating. I have explained that several times.

I don't see you blowing up and frothing at the mouth because our military members have restricted rights.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:54 PM   #108 (permalink)
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I don't see you blowing up and frothing at the mouth because our military members have restricted rights.
Apples and oranges by a far piece....................
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:57 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Apples and oranges by a far piece....................
How so?
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:59 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Well, there are the crimes I was concerned with: outright pocketing of tax money. (not that that's much different than what happened in their paychecks every month)

So this thief has the right not to testify (even before congress) about his crimes.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:07 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Or maybe it's big because people that have been bitching and moaning about wasteful spending finally found a cracked door, and now we are hoping we can fling that door wide open and expose all the skeletons in the governments closet. Republican, Democrat, or Independent, it doesn't fucking matter; we need to clean house and violators of public trust should be strung up from the Washington Monument.

Will you please send me some drugs you are doing.

Lets see what will happen do to this

1) They will fire a couple heads

2) Congress will hold "hearings"

3) media will drop it as soon as something else pops up, and America will forget the day after the media drops it

4) No change will happen
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:12 PM   #112 (permalink)
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You cannot have a service member running down the Commander-In-Chief while wearing the uniform. Why? Because the CINC is part of the chain of command.

You cannot have Joe storing firearms in the barracks because Joe gets fucking stupid in the barracks.

You cannot have Joe being the only one able to access their wall locked in a communal living area because Joe gets fucking stupid in the barracks and it affects the other joes.

The military has the rules that it does to enforce discipline and order because that is what the military is all about.

In the civilian world, I can run down the CINC any damn time I want to because he's not my boss.

I can have all the firearms I want in my house because I am the king of my house. Not someone else.

I can live in my house as a dirty rotten pig if I want because as long as it stays inside my house and does not affect anyone else, it's my right.

I cannot be compelled though to incriminate myself through testimony or written statements that would possibly lead me to being criminally charged in the future. Why? Because the justice system isn't inhabited by robots with perfect thought processes. It's inhabited by humans who on occasion have been known to investigate and indict other humans while being driven not by what is right by the laws of this land, but by what is wrong by their personal petty minds. If the government sees fit to indict a man based on some alleged wrong doing, then the government should have the ability to collect the evidence it needs to convict the man without having to resort to telephone books and batons to get that evidence.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:03 PM   #113 (permalink)
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nope.

But again - as much as I agree with the spirit of what you're suggesting, COTUS doesn't put a limitation on the job one has when protecting rights. So to state that a person cannot take the fifth because they are a public employee, while nice on the surface, is not constitutional.

And the way congress works, I'd take the 5th as well. They'll work their ass off to get a purgery charge.
Purgery? Is that an eating disorder like bulimia?
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:06 PM   #114 (permalink)
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The COTUS says "unreasonable search" guess what its not "unreasonable"
Touching a small child in the crotch is reasonable?
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:08 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Marines, Airmen and Sailors are soliders
So are mormon missionaries. As usual, you fail with the English language.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:10 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Cause you are always on duty.
No, you're not.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:19 PM   #117 (permalink)
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You cannot have a service member running down the Commander-In-Chief while wearing the uniform. Why? Because the CINC is part of the chain of command.

You cannot have Joe storing firearms in the barracks because Joe gets fucking stupid in the barracks.

You cannot have Joe being the only one able to access their wall locked in a communal living area because Joe gets fucking stupid in the barracks and it affects the other joes.

The military has the rules that it does to enforce discipline and order because that is what the military is all about.

In the civilian world, I can run down the CINC any damn time I want to because he's not my boss.

I can have all the firearms I want in my house because I am the king of my house. Not someone else.

I can live in my house as a dirty rotten pig if I want because as long as it stays inside my house and does not affect anyone else, it's my right.

I cannot be compelled though to incriminate myself through testimony or written statements that would possibly lead me to being criminally charged in the future. Why? Because the justice system isn't inhabited by robots with perfect thought processes. It's inhabited by humans who on occasion have been known to investigate and indict other humans while being driven not by what is right by the laws of this land, but by what is wrong by their personal petty minds. If the government sees fit to indict a man based on some alleged wrong doing, then the government should have the ability to collect the evidence it needs to convict the man without having to resort to telephone books and batons to get that evidence.

Take a wild guess at who your boss is. It's not the guy at the station sitting at the big fancy desk. It's the fucking taxpayers. That's who you work for. That's who you answer to. If you have done something to fuck over the very people you swore to protect, then you need to answer for it.

So you can say it's apples and oranges all you want, but in the end it's the same. And that's being held accountable to the people that pay your fucking salary and make your and my life possible.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:25 PM   #118 (permalink)
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No, you're not.


Yes you are. If SHTF and the boss calls you you shall report.

Me on the other hand am under no obligation to report.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:29 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Yes you are. If SHTF and the boss calls you you shall report.

Me on the other hand am under no obligation to report.
Uh, draft. Under your definition, every male is currently in the military, since a draft could be enacted any time.
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