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Old 04-16-2012, 12:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
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GSA official claims the 5th

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/16/politi...html?hpt=hp_t1


The GSA stinkfest gets even stinkier when the organizer claims the 5th in front of Congress.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Not seeing the issue.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Not seeing the issue.
Surely even you must be joking about that...
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Surely even you must be joking about that...

Nope.


IIRC the 5th is a right you have under COTUS. So either you stand for COTUS or You do not.


Second the person who did the planning is in a bad spot. He/she was told to do this and now may be fired for doing his/her job.

How would you feel if you did your job as you were told and then another dept fired you for it?

Yeah I get "well they should not have done this". Well guess what this party happens all the time. This time it went bad.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yup, constitutional rights extend to all citizens of this nation, not just the ones you think are innocent.

Either Congress can provide enough evidence on their own without the accused self-incriminating or they cannot.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Nope.


IIRC the 5th is a right you have under COTUS. So either you stand for COTUS or You do not.


Second the person who did the planning is in a bad spot. He/she was told to do this and now may be fired for doing his/her job.

How would you feel if you did your job as you were told and then another dept fired you for it?

Yeah I get "well they should not have done this". Well guess what this party happens all the time. This time it went bad.
The people that murdered the Jews in the holocaust were just doing their jobs and were doing what they were ordered...

And now we get to have gov't agencies not answer to the public...

Like military members, public employee's forfeit some of their rights. The 5th should be one of them. They are not answering to a lawyer or a prosecutor, they are answering the very people that they were hired to work FOR.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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the GSA is just another government agency we could do without.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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How long would my job last if I claimed the 5th when my boss questioned me about a spending report


About 5 minutes while he walked me to the door

All involved should be terminated with cause immediately.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Nope.


IIRC the 5th is a right you have under COTUS. So either you stand for COTUS or You do not.
It's about a government employee testifying about a gross government misuse of public funds. She's not at risk of self incriminating anything, she is to testify about the government. Her personal actions do not matter with respect to the testimony. She has already been fired from her position.

It becomes a real big problem when every government agency or employee can jut plead the fifth and not be responsible for their actions as public servants. The .gov has to be able to be held accountable for its actions. Period.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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How long would my job last if I claimed the 5th when my boss questioned me about a spending report


About 5 minutes while he walked me to the door

All involved should be terminated with cause immediately.


How would you feel if you worked for a company with many offices and your boss said "hey plan this party".

And then a boss in another office fired you?

Thats what is happening here. The planner was told to do this. This is not the first time a party has been planned so this person didn't see the problem.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
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How long would my job last if I claimed the 5th when my boss questioned me about a spending report


About 5 minutes while he walked me to the door

All involved should be terminated with cause immediately.
Apples and oranges. Your example is NOT the same as testifying under oath.
Try again with a realistic example.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:48 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Apples and oranges. Your example is NOT the same as testifying under oath.
Try again with a realistic example.
Isn't the fifth intended to allow you not to incriminate yourself, as in criminal trial? This is an investigation into government spending, not a trial or a criminal investigation.

This idiot should be fired for knowingly participating in spending so much money on a meeting, that he now refuses to even talk about it.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It's about a government employee testifying about a gross government misuse of public funds. She's not at risk of self incriminating anything, she is to testify about the government. Her personal actions do not matter with respect to the testimony. She has already been fired from her position.

It becomes a real big problem when every government agency or employee can jut plead the fifth and not be responsible for their actions as public servants. The .gov has to be able to be held accountable for its actions. Period.

She has been fired so how is not being held responsible.

And now she is a private citizen thus she has the freedom to remain silent.

The problem I see is we ask employees to do a job then fire them for doing their job.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The people that murdered the Jews in the holocaust were just doing their jobs and were doing what they were ordered...

And now we get to have gov't agencies not answer to the public...

Like military members, public employee's forfeit some of their rights. The 5th should be one of them. They are not answering to a lawyer or a prosecutor, they are answering the very people that they were hired to work FOR.
So you want government agencies to not fall under the protection and regulations of the COTUS? What about the rules in the COTUS that prevent those agencies, at least on paper, from overstepping their bounds? I guess you're in favor of picking and choosing which parts of the COTUS are applicable and relevant, huh?

How fucking hypocritical are you being right now? How many times have you claimed COTUS rights as being paramount, but now you're claiming that CITIZENS, regardless of their positions, should NOT be covered under COTUS Bill of Rights protection? Ridiculous, and it makes you no better than Obama and Liberals claiming that the COTUS is an organic document that needs to be interpreted according to modern day society.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Blank check for parting it up in Vegas? Hells yeah.

You wouldn't be thinking about the taxpayers if you were in their shoes, especially if you were a long time government employee who never had to grasp the concept of how much things cost.

That's how government works, er fails.

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Old 04-16-2012, 12:53 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Isn't the fifth intended to allow you not to incriminate yourself, as in criminal trial? This is an investigation into government spending, not a trial or a criminal investigation.

This idiot should be fired for knowingly participating in spending so much money on a meeting, that he now refuses to even talk about it.
You're under oath in front of a congressional committee, and anything you say there is treated as if you're saying it to a judge. It's recorded and if you self-incriminate, you will be brought up on formal charges. You can be charged with perjury for lying to a Congressional committee, so you should be able to plead the 5th amendment all the same.

Last edited by TJVigilante; 04-16-2012 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:53 PM   #17 (permalink)
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It's about a government employee testifying about a gross government misuse of public funds. She's not at risk of self incriminating anything, she is to testify about the government. Her personal actions do not matter with respect to the testimony. She has already been fired from her position.

It becomes a real big problem when every government agency or employee can jut plead the fifth and not be responsible for their actions as public servants. The .gov has to be able to be held accountable for its actions. Period.
They are also investigating bribes and kickbacks which could lead to criminal charges. It is possible that she could self incriminate.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:54 PM   #18 (permalink)
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The people that murdered the Jews in the holocaust were just doing their jobs and were doing what they were ordered...

And now we get to have gov't agencies not answer to the public...

Like military members, public employee's forfeit some of their rights. The 5th should be one of them. They are not answering to a lawyer or a prosecutor, they are answering the very people that they were hired to work FOR.
BULLFUCKINGSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:54 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaseYJ View Post
It's about a government employee testifying about a gross government misuse of public funds. She's not at risk of self incriminating anything, she is to testify about the government. Her personal actions do not matter with respect to the testimony. She has already been fired from her position.

It becomes a real big problem when every government agency or employee can jut plead the fifth and not be responsible for their actions as public servants. The .gov has to be able to be held accountable for its actions. Period.
it's a very fine line...

what concerns me is any gov't official taking the 5th and not being responsible for gov't policies, etc. to the citizen.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
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You're under oath in front of a congressional committee, and anything you say there is treated as if you're saying it to a judge. It's recorded and if you self-incriminate, you will be brought up on formal charges. You can be charged with perjury for lying to a Congressional committee, so you should be able to plead the 5th amendment all the same.
If he refuses to answer questions about how he did his job, because he did it so poorly and recklessly, he should be fired.


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They are also investigating bribes and kickbacks which could lead to criminal charges. It is possible that she could self incriminate.
I didn't see that part.

Last edited by wireman; 04-16-2012 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:58 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Give her immunity and let her sellout everybody else.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:58 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Apples and oranges. Your example is NOT the same as testifying under oath.
Try again with a realistic example.
OK, I contract for the government on a job that is bid cost +10%. Congress ask me to elaborate on the expenses I submitted. If you can't justify the expense it should not have been submitted.

They should all be fired all the way up the chain to the top. There is no excuse for this type of behavior by the very agency that is supposed to enforce the accounting rules. I mean WTF did they hire the accounting department from Enron and Tyco
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:59 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Isn't the fifth intended to allow you not to incriminate yourself, as in criminal trial? This is an investigation into government spending, not a trial or a criminal investigation.

This idiot should be fired for knowingly participating in spending so much money on a meeting, that he now refuses to even talk about it.


This is a fine line. How much is to much for a meeting? For a conference? For a plane trip? And so forth and so on.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:19 PM   #25 (permalink)
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So you want government agencies to not fall under the protection and regulations of the COTUS? What about the rules in the COTUS that prevent those agencies, at least on paper, from overstepping their bounds? I guess you're in favor of picking and choosing which parts of the COTUS are applicable and relevant, huh?

How fucking hypocritical are you being right now? How many times have you claimed COTUS rights as being paramount, but now you're claiming that CITIZENS, regardless of their positions, should NOT be covered under COTUS Bill of Rights protection? Ridiculous, and it makes you no better than Obama and Liberals claiming that the COTUS is an organic document that needs to be interpreted according to modern day society.
We already do pick and choose. Military members do not have full, unrestricted 1st amendment rights.

I do not have full, unrestricted 2nd amendment rights.

it not being hypocritical, it's just holding the interests of the public above your own. I mean, as a public servent, that's pretty much in the job desription.
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