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Old 04-16-2012, 12:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Proper fence etiquette?

Had a tornado come through our neighborhood on Saturday and it knocked over the fence between my yard and my neighbors yard. Luckily, we only have to deal with a bummed out fence.

I believe that what I've heard is the fence is their fence because they put the pretty side towards us. I could care less who's fence it is because I still use it to keep my dogs in my yard. But I'm a bit confused.

They won't do anything to fix it unless someone comes out to fix it. But I'm still trying to use my yard to keep the dogs in check. So is it cool if I fix the fence? I don't want to fix it and they try to get money out of it because of the tornado only to find out that I fixed it and messed that up for them.

It is an old ass privacy fence. And it needs lots of work from time to time. Before I knew any better I just bought a whole crap slew of boards off craigslist and would fix problem areas when it needed it. So far I've probably replaced 50 boards over a year and half. Now it has blown down and I just want it back in place.

I'm going to speak with them this evening once the home owner gets there to see what the plan of attack will be. But what is normal? What should happen?
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Split the cost

edit: unless they don't mind your dogs shitting in their yard
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:29 PM   #3 (permalink)
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1) Who's yard is the fence on/in

2) If it is the neighbors fence ask him if you can fix it


There is no normal.


What should happen and what happens are two way differnt things.

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Old 04-16-2012, 12:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I would just talk to the neighbors, if they are wanting to do the insurance route for the $$$ work with them on that time wise.

IF they just don't want to do the work, talk to them about some cost splitting arrangement. I've done things like they paid materials, I supplied the labor with everyone happy in the end.

If they dont' want to work wth you at all or do insurance, it's on you to fix the fence, however code and you see fit. (I say code, because if they don't like it, they may bitch.)
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Split the cost

edit: unless they don't mind your dogs shitting in their yard
They have dogs. So they have as much motivation to fix the fence. Regardless, they are lazy. If my dogs shit in their yard when we're in the front I pick it up.

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Originally Posted by ironpig70 View Post
1) Who's yard is the fence on/in

2) If it is the neighbors fence ask him if you can fix it


There is no normal.


What should happen and what happens are two way differnt things.
I guess I didn't think about that. I don't know who's yard it is in. I will have to check.

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I would just talk to the neighbors, if they are wanting to do the insurance route for the $$$ work with them on that time wise.

IF they just don't want to do the work, talk to them about some cost splitting arrangement. I've done things like they paid materials, I supplied the labor with everyone happy in the end.

If they dont' want to work wth you at all or do insurance, it's on you to fix the fence, however code and you see fit. (I say code, because if they don't like it, they may bitch.)
Looking at the fence it will just take a few nails and screws to piece it back together. I just hope I didn't fawk it all up when they now expect me to fix it since I've just always done it in the past.

I only did it to keep the dogs in my yard.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Tough call. I had this happen after Hurricane Ike hit Houston a couple years back. Most people would say that the nice side is built towards the owner. That is not always the case though.

My neighbors fenc only had 3 sections down and that was strictly because the posts were rotten and had not been addressed already as they should have been. A couple new posts and it could have been put back up easily. I asked how they wanted to handle it and they said they were taking care of it because it was their fence and not to mess with it. They decided they wanted to get insurance $$$ to replace it. I come home one day and the husband is out there demolishing the fence with his chainsaw, sledgehammer etc. Not just the downed sections, but the whole thing. He did this so insurance would have to pay to replace it. Then he decided he would build the new fence himself so he could pocket the $$$. He did nothing for another week which sucked because I had to walk the dogs on the leash constantly. Finally we started letting our dogs out while we were out with them to make sure they stayed in our yard. One day they let their cat out without realizing we were out with the dogs. The cat came into my yard and my dogs noticed it. Then the chase was on. Our dogs treed their declawed cat way up one of my trees. The neighbors were mortified and said the cat had never climbed a tree because it was declawed on all paws. We put the dogs up. I have no clue how long til that cat came down. The next day I came home from work and the fence was halfway done. The day after I got home and it was complete. Mind you, it looks fine, but is a POS fence. This guy did not know what he was doing and it shows.

Across my neighborhood there are tons of stories of neighbors getting in fights over the fences after Ike. People who wanted to get paid for the fence, but wanted their neighbor to them kick in 50% of the new fence cost, etc. It just comes down to what kind of people you have for neighbors.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Good fences make good neighbors.


Meet your neighbor in the middle of the fence. Shake hands. What's to your right is yours to fix, what's to his right is his to fix. Easy, especially since both of you have dogs.

Unless you both want to upgrade, just replace like with like.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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the direction of the "nice" side is rarely a determining factor on who the fence belongs to the property survey will determine that especially with side/back yard fences.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:06 PM   #10 (permalink)
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the direction of the "nice" side is rarely a determining factor on who the fence belongs to the property survey will determine that especially with side/back yard fences.
Of course they are just stories, but I have heard stories of jack ass neighbors suing the fence owner for putting the ugly side towards them.

I have three section of fence. I know the longest portion that got damage is across the city easement and not on my property. I've never thought about the fence between my next door neighbors.

I want all of it to come down and be replaced. It is an ooogly fence.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:10 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Here's one for ya. My neighbor had an irate x girlfriend tear across his yard with her car in doing so she hit my chain link fence taking a section down. It is still down a year or so later because in my neighbors mind and his ins. He didn't hit my fence, and she went to jail but since we were not the target of her vehicular craziness, no one paid to fix my fence.

Me and the neighbor don't get along to well.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dookey View Post
Of course they are just stories, but I have heard stories of jack ass neighbors suing the fence owner for putting the ugly side towards them.
S'OK man. That chit only happens in California and Florida... You should be safe in Kansas, plenty of mid-west sensibility...
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Of course they are just stories, but I have heard stories of jack ass neighbors suing the fence owner for putting the ugly side towards them.

I have three section of fence. I know the longest portion that got damage is across the city easement and not on my property. I've never thought about the fence between my next door neighbors.

I want all of it to come down and be replaced. It is an ooogly fence.


I have lots of fences in my yard.

On one side I have 1 neighbor. And that fence is nice panels on her side, then nice panels on my side.

Other side is 3 neighbors.

1st neighbor did all the work and I paid paid for 1/2 the materials. He wanted the nice side in my yard. Figured that way my kids/others couldn't use the 2x4's to climb over.

2nd neighbor worked at a mill and got all the wood for dirt cheap and wanted the nice side towards his yard.

3rd neighbors fence has been up since I moved in and its all towards him.



So its hit or miss.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Here's one for ya. My neighbor had an irate x girlfriend tear across his yard with her car in doing so she hit my chain link fence taking a section down. It is still down a year or so later because in my neighbors mind and his ins. He didn't hit my fence, and she went to jail but since we were not the target of her vehicular craziness, no one paid to fix my fence.

Me and the neighbor don't get along to well.
They are correct. The neighbor had nothing to do with your fence getting fucked up. File it on your insurance and let your insurance go after the chick that's locked up. Just because she was targeting the neighbor, that doesn't mean he's responsible. If someone shoots at you, but misses and hits your neighbor's window, are you going to pay for it?

As for the OP, there's absolutely zero standard or rhyme or reason to fences. If you need it to keep your dogs in, then build a fence. If they want to claim it on their insurance and get paid, then they can build their own fence that butts up against yours. Just cheat the fence a few inches onto your side of the property line so they can't bitch about you building on their land.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Of course they are just stories, but I have heard stories of jack ass neighbors suing the fence owner for putting the ugly side towards them.

I have three section of fence. I know the longest portion that got damage is across the city easement and not on my property. I've never thought about the fence between my next door neighbors.

I want all of it to come down and be replaced. It is an ooogly fence.
It's code in a lot of places to have the finished side facing outward.

A quick search of KS state law on fences shows it's much like CA. Split 50/50 unless one neighbor doesn't have the rest of his property fenced in. If in the future that neighbor encloses the property, then they must reimburse for half the cost of the fence you put up.
http://www.ksre.ksu.edu/library/agec2/c663.pdf
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:22 PM   #16 (permalink)
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pretty side/ugly side is often a zoneing thing
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:23 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Why don't you get the property surveyed and put up the fence you want inside your property so there will never be an issue over ownership again.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:24 PM   #18 (permalink)
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S'OK man. That chit only happens in California and Florida... You should be safe in Kansas, plenty of mid-west sensibility...
Sure

http://www.kiowacountysignal.com/new...nt-fence-me-in
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Don't fence me in

Greensburg, KS

Though Peter Kern apparently didn’t know it at the time a portion of the privacy fence he was erecting around his backyard last July was in violation of Greensburg city code, in particular, section 26-108.4.E.2.a. The statute states any fence within city limits “shall be constructed with the finished side facing outward from the property”, meaning the “posts and support beams shall be on the inside...”

While Kern, who lives at 521 S Elm, did make sure the finished side of the east and south portions of his fence faced the street, he kept the finished side to the inside of his yard on its north segment, something with which his neighbor to the north, Marclyn Woolsey, took exception.

Shortly after seeing Kern’s project get underway Woolsey complained to Community Development Director Mike Gurnee who told her to file a written complaint, which she did within a month’s time.

Seeing for himself that Kern’s fence did violate city code, Gurnee sent Kern a letter dated August 15 informing him of his infraction and giving him 30 days to either correct the north stretch of the fence or file an appeal with the Board of Zoning Appeals. Kern filed the appeal September 16, leading to Wednesday night’s appearance of Kern and Woolsey before the Board, which doubles as the Planning and Zoning Commission.

Gurnee had provided the Board beforehand with a memo outlining the background of the Kern/Woolsey dispute and offering four alternatives to dealing with the matter, the first of which was to agree with his finding of Kern being in violation and requiring him to adjust the appearance of his fence, while a second was to find Gurnee had misapplied the code. A third choice was to give Kern opportunity to apply a finished side to the portion of the fence facing Woolsey’s house.

The Board, however, decided to go with Gurnee’s final suggestion, which was agreeing that his finding and letter to Kern had been correct while giving Kern time to pursue repeal of the relevant portion of the zoning code. The Board, in fact, agreed to allow up to 120 days for deletion of section 26-108.4.E.2.a.

While Kern cannot personally seek to have the relevant section dropped, Gurnee said he would seek to have a public hearing on the advisability of repealing the fence ordinance as soon as November 3. Assuming the absence of a public outcry to keep the fencing statute in place, Gurnee said the Board would then likely recommend deletion of that part of the code to the City Council.

Asked later if he though Woolsey had a legitimate complaint in regard to Kern’s fence, Gurnee said, “O sure, it was legit by virtue of how the code is written. The code says how a fence is to be put up and Kern did something opposite.”

Gurnee pointed out, however, that Kern’s contention that he was ignorant of the law concerning which side of the fence should face neighbors was believable.

“We don’t require fencing permits,” he said. “If we did he (Kern) would have been informed of all the requirements when he came in to apply. It’s kind of an obscure requirement, and not one that you would think most people would be aware of.”

As evidence of the general ignorance of the fencing statute Kern brought with him to his appearance before the Board photos of several residential fences around Greensburg, several of which Gurnee said “were in violation as much as his.”

Woolsey, however, said during her comments before the Board that she was “shocked” Kern claimed not to know of the provision.

Gurnee said the public hearing on the matter is important in order to “ascertain the public’s feeling on the matter. Public input does play a big role.” He went on to say that if the Board should decide to recommend to city council the statute be kept in the code, it should also ask the language be modified to require obtaining a permit for erecting a fence, “even if there’s no charge so people can be made aware of the laws related to it.”

Woolsey later said she was “very disappointed” they (Board of Appeals) did not follow the fencing code.” She also said she spoke to Kern while he was constructing the fence and offered to “put something up on” her side of the north segment so she “wouldn’t have to look out her window at the back side of that.”

“He (Kern) told me they were his posts and he paid for them and nobody was attaching anything to them,” Woolsey said.

“I guess I lost,” she said. “I’ve just given up on this and on the City of Greensburg.”

In other matters…
*The Planning and Zoning Commission continued to Monday night (October 20) a public hearing on the closing of Cherry Street between KS Avenue (US 54) and Florida. That street had formerly separated the offices of BTI Implement Dealership from its machinery lot. The BTI property has recently been purchased by the County as the site for the new Kiowa County Memorial Hospital. The County, in fact, originally asked the street be closed.
While Gurnee said there seems to be concern by some that closing Cherry would eliminate traffic’s first opportunity to turn south when entering town from the west, the hospital’s current plans call for a driveway being constructed where Cherry currently sits.
“It won’t be a public street, and it won’t be as wide, but people can still get to Florida from the highway by turning into the driveway,” he said. “Otherwise they’ll have to wait two more blocks until they get to Spruce.”
*The commission also approved an application for a conditional use permit allowing Fleener Funeral Home to build its new facility at the northeast corner of Main and Garfield. The permit was needed since the area has been residential until now.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:26 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I have a question for all the folks who say build the fence inside your property.


How do you cut your grass thats on the opposite side of the fence???


I know I would mow mine but leave a strip along the fence and call code enforcement about your yard
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:31 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The fence around my brother's house was falling apart. Next door neighbors had a LARGE dog that would jump into the fence causing it to lean even further. No one offered to help pay for a new fence (my brother did ask) so my brother paid a fencing company to install a new fence that he liked but didn't match the other peoples fences at their intersections. Old lady behind him tried to pull a "That fence has been there for decades, you must use the same materials that match the two remaining sides of my fence or I'll call a lawyer". When the fencing company tore down the old fence he got his chainsaw and cut the old fencing in half so she couldn't nail it to the back of his new fence (and to piss her off). He wasn't going to pay the full cost AND build the fence THEY wanted. BTW, the "pretty" side faced his yard.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:34 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I have a question for all the folks who say build the fence inside your property.


How do you cut your grass thats on the opposite side of the fence???


I know I would mow mine but leave a strip along the fence and call code enforcement about your yard
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:37 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by onewhitezj View Post
Here's one for ya. My neighbor had an irate x girlfriend tear across his yard with her car in doing so she hit my chain link fence taking a section down. It is still down a year or so later because in my neighbors mind and his ins. He didn't hit my fence, and she went to jail but since we were not the target of her vehicular craziness, no one paid to fix my fence.

Me and the neighbor don't get along to well.
You have the insurable interest (your fence). You need to file a claim with your ins. for the cost to fix your fence and then your ins. can subrogate the cost out of her insurance co.

His ins. isn't going to do a damn thing until somebody makes them do it (your ins.)
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Proper fence etiquette?

If they are waiting for cash from insurance I would have a serious talk with them about a time line then I would get the lumber that has fallen over n build me a dog kennel :-p
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:50 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I have a question for all the folks who say build the fence inside your property.


How do you cut your grass thats on the opposite side of the fence???


I know I would mow mine but leave a strip along the fence and call code enforcement about your yard
I don't live in a neighborhood with a stupid fucking HOA, that's how.
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:11 PM   #25 (permalink)
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i got tired of the idiot nieghbor in my old hood not keeping up his fence. it was his as it was on his side of the property line as surveyed.

put up a new fence on my side of the line and quit giving a fuck about his fence.

Last edited by co84rc; 04-16-2012 at 02:12 PM.
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