Do any of you guys get epidurals?

[RusM]

Originally Posted by NERVEman

The problem with steroidal injections is they accelerate the destruction of the disc and joint material. Hence, short term relief and subsequent injections causing even shorter relief because in essence, the steroid injections destroying the joint become the source of the pain. Catch 22.
Bad stuff

Ask your Doc about Synvisc or Orthovisc.

Those are not the steroids I am looking for....

[kkattfish]

i'm going in for an epidural next friday also. i have gotten a series of facet injections and they don't seem to help. for some reason they think this will.
this is after 1 back surgery on L5 S1. i still have 2 herniated discs
i'm 33 years old and walk like an old man most the time

[NERVEman]

Originally Posted by RusM

Those are not the steroids I am looking for....

[twentyfootdaredevil]

Originally Posted by kkattfish

i'm going in for an epidural next friday also. i have gotten a series of facet injections and they don't seem to help. for some reason they think this will.
this is after 1 back surgery on L5 S1. i still have 2 herniated discs
i'm 33 years old and walk like an old man most the time

I am 32 and lately I have had random people ask me if I am okay while walking around. I guess I just look like I am in pain. I have been laying tile and building a deck through all of this.

[NewWifeSmell]

I had the facet injections on my lower back and it was a fantastic two days without pain but it didn't last. My doc wanted to burn the nerves off and the more I thought about it the more I didn't like that idea so I left his care and also for telling me "with your drug history I'm hesitent to give you more Tramadol". Honestly I was stunned. These are 20mg 3x a day.

[The Joker]

If you drink more water and take more fiber those bad boys won't be so tough to grunt out.

[Crash440]

Originally Posted by NewWifeSmell

I had the facet injections on my lower back and it was a fantastic two days without pain but it didn't last. My doc wanted to burn the nerves off and the more I thought about it the more I didn't like that idea so I left his care and also for telling me "with your drug history I'm hesitent to give you more Tramadol". Honestly I was stunned. These are 20mg 3x a day.

that is a teeeny amount of Tramadol My dog is on 50mg 2-4x day. I had them 1x for myself and I threw up for 6.5hrs NOT the drug for me.......lucky i had saved them for when the dog went on them

I had 2 steroid shots in my back last April and May for nerve damage in my abdomen. The first didn't work the 2nd didn't' work right away but sb pointed out I'm not plagued with that pain 24/7 like I was before. I am however NOT steroid friendly and in those 2mos put on 30lbs btwn water weight, horrible hunger and non stop migraines for 2mos I don't want to do them again.

the upside was the steroids kicked my allergies to the curb for that grass season


to the OP hope you have good luck with yours

[FrankenRover]

Originally Posted by NERVEman

i am assuming you had a spinal anesthesia and not a spinal epidural. i too took that route for my ACL surgery last summer.
10 months later and i still have no feeling below my knee on the outside muscle.

Your nerve injury is far more likely from the surgery itself and not the anesthetic you were given. Google "ACL reconstruction nerve injury". Surgeons are more than happy to blame Anesthesia when patients experience post op nerve deficits. As a "Nerveman" I probably don't have to tell you this however.

As to the OP - epidural steroids can work very well, or not at all. Most are somewhere in between. Its a low risk alternative to surgery at least to begin with. Spine surgery (excluding micro-discectomy) is generally worthless imho unless you are fixing a fracture or severe scoliosis. It is also self perpetuating in that your likely to be a frequent flyer for spine surgery later in life. Good for the spine surgeons and implant reps/companies, bad for patients. I think any real change in the US healthcare system in the near future will target spinal fusions and implants for the chopping block (so to speak).

Be cautious of getting an RF ablation of any nerves. Get a second opinion from another pain doc.

My final bit of advice is stay off the narcotics. Period... You will fawk your life up.
And Tramadol is not the "safe" alternative. Its a gateway drug to real narcotics. It can be very addictive both physically and psychologically. It should be a scheduled drug here in the US.

Once you are hooked on the prescription narcotics, graduating to heroin is almost inevitable. Heroin is way cheaper.

[Crash440]

Originally Posted by FrankenRover

Your nerve injury is far more likely from the surgery itself and not the anesthetic you were given. Google "ACL reconstruction nerve injury". Surgeons are more than happy to blame Anesthesia when patients experience post op nerve deficits. As a "Nerveman" I probably don't have to tell you this however.

As to the OP - epidural steroids can work very well, or not at all. Most are somewhere in between. Its a low risk alternative to surgery at least to begin with. Spine surgery (excluding micro-discectomy) is generally worthless imho unless you are fixing a fracture or severe scoliosis. It is also self perpetuating in that your likely to be a frequent flyer for spine surgery later in life. Good for the spine surgeons and implant reps/companies, bad for patients. I think any real change in the US healthcare system in the near future will target spinal fusions and implants for the chopping block (so to speak).

Be cautious of getting an RF ablation of any nerves. Get a second opinion from another pain doc.

My final bit of advice is stay off the narcotics. Period... You will fawk your life up.
And Tramadol is not the "safe" alternative. Its a gateway drug to real narcotics. It can be very addictive both physically and psychologically. It should be a scheduled drug here in the US.

Once you are hooked on the prescription narcotics, graduating to heroin is almost inevitable. Heroin is way cheaper.

is 'scheduled' drug the same as a 'triplicate'??

my issue is I most pain meds so my first visit to my pain dr he gave me suboxone.........IIRC that is what heroin addicts are given for 'rehab'?? I threw up for 12.5hrs after taking my first and only dose of that one.

i'm on a new pain drug now that is VERY tolerable on my stomach but is a 'triplicate'....all I know is that means is that I have to have the hard copy Rx for the pharmacy.

[NERVEman]

Originally Posted by FrankenRover

Your nerve injury is far more likely from the surgery itself and not the anesthetic you were given. Google "ACL reconstruction nerve injury". Surgeons are more than happy to blame Anesthesia when patients experience post op nerve deficits. As a "Nerveman" I probably don't have to tell you this however.

so true, the surgeon did state that my feeling will return in about 6 months. i don't think it will.

[twentyfootdaredevil]

Originally Posted by FrankenRover

Your nerve injury is far more likely from the surgery itself and not the anesthetic you were given. Google "ACL reconstruction nerve injury". Surgeons are more than happy to blame Anesthesia when patients experience post op nerve deficits. As a "Nerveman" I probably don't have to tell you this however.

As to the OP - epidural steroids can work very well, or not at all. Most are somewhere in between. Its a low risk alternative to surgery at least to begin with. Spine surgery (excluding micro-discectomy) is generally worthless imho unless you are fixing a fracture or severe scoliosis. It is also self perpetuating in that your likely to be a frequent flyer for spine surgery later in life. Good for the spine surgeons and implant reps/companies, bad for patients. I think any real change in the US healthcare system in the near future will target spinal fusions and implants for the chopping block (so to speak).

Be cautious of getting an RF ablation of any nerves. Get a second opinion from another pain doc.

My final bit of advice is stay off the narcotics. Period... You will fawk your life up.
And Tramadol is not the "safe" alternative. Its a gateway drug to real narcotics. It can be very addictive both physically and psychologically. It should be a scheduled drug here in the US.

Once you are hooked on the prescription narcotics, graduating to heroin is almost inevitable. Heroin is way cheaper.

I honestly don't understand the attraction to pain pills. They have no effect on how I feel at all. I take two or more percocets at a time and they do very little for pain and have no recreational appeal to me at all. I wouldn't give ten cents for a pill.

My big concern was going to a stronger pill like oxy contin and risking addiction. I guess it might be possible but, I would have to be in pretty bad shape to even consider heroin!

Tramadol, lortab, and i think Vicodin had zero effect on me. I tried all of them after my injury and they were exactly like taking asprin. I may have a natural high tolerance to that kind of medicine. They also recently gave me a lidocaine patch that was supposed to numb my lower back.....nothing

[FrankenRover]

Originally Posted by Crash440

is 'scheduled' drug the same as a 'triplicate'??

my issue is I most pain meds so my first visit to my pain dr he gave me suboxone.........IIRC that is what heroin addicts are given for 'rehab'?? I threw up for 12.5hrs after taking my first and only dose of that one.

i'm on a new pain drug now that is VERY tolerable on my stomach but is a 'triplicate'....all I know is that means is that I have to have the hard copy Rx for the pharmacy.

It depends on what state your in (of residence, not mind). It generally does mean "harder" drugs. In some states some schedule drugs do not necessarily require a Triplicate prescription.

[FrankenRover]

The other problem with narcotic analgesics is that they are also self perptuating. The more you take, the more you "need". Patients that have been on opiods long term have a markedly lower tolerance to the everyday aches and pains we all have.

I had a patient that came in for surgery the other day. Long time back pain patient on high dose fentanyl (narcotic) patch, and oxycontin. And he related to me "I just don't understand it... I used to be a tough SOB, and I'd get hurt at work all the time and never sweated it. Now when I get a paper cut, its the worst pain I've ever experienced. WTF is wrong with me."

Don't get me started on Benzodiazepines either. Stay away from that evil shit. Trust me on this one. Specially the women folk.

[Crash440]

Originally Posted by twentyfootdaredevil

I honestly don't understand the attraction to pain pills. They have no effect on how I feel at all. I take two or more percocets at a time and they do very little for pain and have no recreational appeal to me at all. I wouldn't give ten cents for a pill.

My big concern was going to a stronger pill like oxy contin and risking addiction. I guess it might be possible but, I would have to be in pretty bad shape to even consider heroin!

Tramadol, lortab, and i think Vicodin had zero effect on me. I tried all of them after my injury and they were exactly like taking asprin. I may have a natural high tolerance to that kind of medicine. They also recently gave me a lidocaine patch that was supposed to numb my lower back.....nothing

I can't stand they way they make me feel and the nonstop vomiting I get from them so no way I can understand people 'wanting' to take them, yuck.

the lidocaine patches made me itch bad but would also partially numb so it was non stop ITCH. never helped the nerve pain so I stopped using them.

Originally Posted by FrankenRover

The other problem with narcotic analgesics is that they are also self perptuating. The more you take, the more you "need". Patients that have been on opiods long term have a markedly lower tolerance to the everyday aches and pains we all have.

I had a patient that came in for surgery the other day. Long time back pain patient on high dose fentanyl (narcotic) patch, and oxycontin. And he related to me "I just don't understand it... I used to be a tough SOB, and I'd get hurt at work all the time and never sweated it. Now when I get a paper cut, its the worst pain I've ever experienced. WTF is wrong with me."

Don't get me started on Benzodiazepines either. Stay away from that evil shit. Trust me on this one. Specially the women folk.

yep I agree, as my body 'adds on' more pain issues each one is harder to deal with than the last I've been with the pain dr 3yrs now and he' still is shocked at how little meds I will take and how i don't want to 'upgrade'.

benzo's are the diet stuff???

[FrankenRover]

Benzo's are anti-anxiety drugs like valium, ativan, versed, klonopin, etc. The real drug name (not the trade name like klonpin) usually ends in 'pam - lorazepam, clonazepam - and they usually have a Z in there somewhere.

[Crash440]

Originally Posted by FrankenRover

Benzo's are anti-anxiety drugs like valium, ativan, versed, klonopin, etc. The real drug name (not the trade name like klonpin) usually ends in 'pam - lorazepam, clonazepam - and they usually have a Z in there somewhere.

oh well that's just fawking peachy, I'm on klonopin/clonazepam, 1mg for vertigo. when i went to the ER for a 2 week migraine that dr there went NUTS about me being on it....at that time it was .05mg daily. He called me a drug addict, said my pain dr was ruining my life and that the pain dr was wasting HIS time with having to deal with me I did manage to call him an asshole tho

ativan was TOXIC for me and a really bad trip

[purevil71]

I was supposed to have one on my back, but ended up having surgery instead to remove a ruptured disk. Two surgery's in less than a year and my back is STILL fawked! God I love getting old!!

[NewWifeSmell]

The Percoset and Percodan don't touch me and the Vicodin doesn't work as well as Advil does. For the Tramadol to work at all I need at a time once a day but not all days. I told my former back doc that I did not want any opiates and he agreed. My back isn't going to get any better so burning off the nerves and surgery is going to do what for me again?

I was a probation officer and I had a pretty good grasp of what 'drugs' can do to you. Me being called a drug addict is a insult to the professional drug addicts I use to manage.

[Haole]

Originally Posted by NERVEman

i am assuming you had a spinal anesthesia and not a spinal epidural. i too took that route for my ACL surgery last summer.
10 months later and i still have no feeling below my knee on the outside muscle.

I only call it what my doc called it.

Did you use the hamstring tendon as a replacement? I was told that I might end up with a numbness and I did and occasionally still do. My ACL surgery was 11.5 years ago.

[Haole]

Originally Posted by Crash440

is 'scheduled' drug the same as a 'triplicate'??

my issue is I most pain meds so my first visit to my pain dr he gave me suboxone.........IIRC that is what heroin addicts are given for 'rehab'?? I threw up for 12.5hrs after taking my first and only dose of that one.

i'm on a new pain drug now that is VERY tolerable on my stomach but is a 'triplicate'....all I know is that means is that I have to have the hard copy Rx for the pharmacy.

There are different schedules for drugs. For example, the psychosimulants I take are a schedule 2 drug and are filled out in triplicate. They can't be refilled. I have to have a new prescription every time.

There are five schedules:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Substances_Act

[NERVEman]

Originally Posted by Haole

I only call it what my doc called it.

Did you use the hamstring tendon as a replacement? I was told that I might end up with a numbness and I did and occasionally still do. My ACL surgery was 11.5 years ago.

No, my surgeon was the first in the world to use living cartilage transplant. Its literally grown cartilage. He first used it on a guys shoulder and than started doing knees. The idea is healing is quicker and stronger.
Its been 10 months and i still have no feeling (with pressure) in a patch of my leg. Its no big deal as i never notice unless i am touching it to check it.
This guy i hand picked as he is one of the top knee guys in Canada.

[Haole]

Originally Posted by NERVEman

No, my surgeon was the first in the world to use living cartilage transplant. Its literally grown cartilage. He first used it on a guys shoulder and than started doing knees. The idea is healing is quicker and stronger.
Its been 10 months and i still have no feeling (with pressure) in a patch of my leg. Its no big deal as i never notice unless i am touching it to check it.
This guy i hand picked as he is one of the top knee guys in Canada.

Aside from the scars from the scoping, you can't tell which of my knees had corrective surgery. A pivot-shift test, anterior drawer test and the Lachman test all make my "good" knee look worse than my repaired knee. I was healed up pretty good in a month. I was back on the ship in 5 months.

The numbness is from the scope being in the vicinity of a nerve and causing some damage. Pretty common in ACL surgeries.

[twentyfootdaredevil]

Just had mine done. It wasn't all that bad. The water injection was about the worst part for me.

[BOFF]

Originally Posted by twentyfootdaredevil

Just had mine done. It wasn't all that bad. The water injection was about the worst part for me.

Glad it went well.

Hope it works for you.


God Bless,
David B.

[HalfFastFord]

I'm very interested in the recent announcement of an alternative procedure to fusions. Seems a doctor has come up with anew procedure that actually causes the disc to regenerate. Uses prothrombin and fibrinogen spun from your own blood and injects the 2 parts into the disc. It initially acts as an "epoxy" filling the cracks and spaces in the discs.
Looks promising. Heard the controlled studies should be finished in 2015. C'mon FDA, approve this.