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Old 10-04-2013, 07:09 AM   #101 (permalink)
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why not just make it that people couldn't be denied?
According to the insurance companies, that's a non-starter and a rate buster. Insurance works by spreading the risk that a few will get sick amongst the many in the pool who won't. To open a market to those who are just sick (which is what you do, without the mandate), would have far heavier impact on rate payers.

I ain't an actuary (insurance rate bean counter), but the articles I've read on the subject generally point in this direction.

The reason a large employer gets a far better insurance rate is because they have a larger pool to spread the risk out.

Finally, some reasonable discussion.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:12 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Romneycare in MA has been a huge success. 97% of the state of MA has health insurance now. Much of Obamacare was modeled after it.
Do you live in MA?

Maybe you could tell us about your experience.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:12 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:13 AM   #104 (permalink)
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How long do you have to sit on the site before you get let in?
A good 10 minutes.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:14 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Screwzer2 View Post
According to the insurance companies, that's a non-starter and a rate buster. Insurance works by spreading the risk that a few will get sick amongst the many in the pool who won't. To open a market to those who are just sick (which is what you do, without the mandate), would have far heavier impact on rate payers.

I ain't an actuary (insurance rate bean counter), but the articles I've read on the subject generally point in this direction.

The reason a large employer gets a far better insurance rate is because they have a larger pool to spread the risk out.

Finally, some reasonable discussion.
What? No shit? You don't say!

I realize that. But that is pretty much what it did, anyways.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:15 AM   #106 (permalink)
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Fixed.
Sadly, those descriptive labels are becoming harder to distinguish every day.

...and Im not talking about our pal Screwy.

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Old 10-04-2013, 07:27 AM   #107 (permalink)
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I guess I can't has it!Name:  ImageUploadedByAG Free1380896815.168258.jpg
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:32 AM   #108 (permalink)
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I guess I can't has it!Attachment 1059010


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Old 10-04-2013, 07:34 AM   #109 (permalink)
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:41 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Buddy said last night that INS premiums are rising at a much lower rate than in recent history. I found this an odd statement considering the numbers I've seen thrown around this bitch.
I can never remember premiums increasing anywhere near the rate that they are now, unless I look at the comparison of not having insurance -> having insurance.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:43 AM   #111 (permalink)
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I can never remember premiums increasing anywhere near the rate that they are now, unless I look at the comparison of not having insurance -> having insurance.
I couldn't, either, but I also bowed to the fact that I'm looking at a small sample size and don't know what the past numbers were.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:43 AM   #112 (permalink)
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According to the insurance companies, that's a non-starter and a rate buster. Insurance works by spreading the risk that a few will get sick amongst the many in the pool who won't. To open a market to those who are just sick (which is what you do, without the mandate), would have far heavier impact on rate payers.
What you mean is - the "well" people who pay less now, have to be forced to continue taking care of themselves but start paying MORE to cover the fact that some people want to pay less.

Awesome.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:46 AM   #113 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=rustywagoneersdotcom;11056223]Political Correctness is a doctrine that holds forth the proposition that it is possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.[/QUOTE]

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Old 10-04-2013, 07:58 AM   #114 (permalink)
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Fought tooth and nail by Republicans. The ACA was originally a Republican plan (Romneycare) just to avoid such a thing (~35% of Americans on Medicare). It was felt that fixing the market and getting people to pay their own way was better.

I happen to agree with those Republicans of yore.
You are going to have to quit saying the ACA was a republican plan. Yes, as far back as 1989, there were several Republican proposals that included some of the current features. Yes, many Repubs liked Romney Care. That doesn't mean this lump of coal was is a Republican Law. It was introduced by Charlie Rangel in 09 and shoved down the peoples throat because the Dems controlled both Houses and the Presidency.

Here is a tidbit for you, PEOPLE ARE NOT PAYING THEIR OWN WAY!!
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:18 AM   #115 (permalink)
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Finally, some reasonable discussion.
hahahahahaha pick and choose, dodge and weave. I type like a butterfly quote like a bee!

If this was a great law it would not have needed a super majority to pass
lawmakers would have known what was in the law before we had to pass the law
exchanges would have been up and ready day 1. If i designed a system and it went live the way obamacare did i would be fired.
nobody addressed my point about how untrained people have access to ALL of your pertinent information.
what security procedures are in place to protect our information now there there is a one stop shop for identity thieves.

This was a bad law poorly written and pushed through while the dems held power.


Screwey you can ignore the above as i know you will but answer one question.

Why, under obamacare are you required to buy insurance you will never need and never use. Why should a 60 yr couple's insurance include maternity insurance? They will never have another kid, Why buy insurance that covers childbirth?

That makes no sense to me.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:21 AM   #116 (permalink)
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...
That makes no sense to me.
The elephant in the room:

If all we wanted to do was make sure everyone had insurance – it would have been infinitely less expensive to simply subsidize the premiums of those members of the ‘uninsured 25-or-so-percent’ and enroll them in already existing health insurance plans. The government doesn’t have to take over the industry to do that. Regarding pre-existing conditions? It would have been infinitely less expensive to expand Medicare/Medicaid to provide some level of coverage for those cases.

Does anyone realize that there will still be uninsured people under the AHCA? Does anyone realize that the ‘pre-existing’conditions’ budget was burned through much faster than projected?
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:30 AM   #117 (permalink)
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The elephant in the room:

If all we wanted to do was make sure everyone had insurance – it would have been infinitely less expensive to simply subsidize the premiums of those members of the ‘uninsured 25-or-so-percent’ and enroll them in already existing health insurance plans. The government doesn’t have to take over the industry to do that. Regarding pre-existing conditions? It would have been infinitely less expensive to expand Medicare/Medicaid to provide some level of coverage for those cases.

Does anyone realize that there will still be uninsured people under the AHCA? Does anyone realize that the ‘pre-existing’conditions’ budget was burned through much faster than projected?
Does anyone realize the majority that sign up will be subsidized.

Does anyone realize a large portion will have pre-existing.

Does anyone realize for this to work young and healthy ones have to overload the system?

Just like any thing the government does, this is a cluster and will utter fail. This is the ultimate bridge to nowhere.

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Old 10-04-2013, 08:33 AM   #118 (permalink)
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We have used Obamacare several times in my MBA program as a way NOT to implement a system. From a Project Management standpoint, this should have never been implemented as it was doomed to fail before it ever began.
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[QUOTE=rustywagoneersdotcom;11056223]Political Correctness is a doctrine that holds forth the proposition that it is possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.[/QUOTE]

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Old 10-04-2013, 08:43 AM   #119 (permalink)
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Buddy said last night that INS premiums are rising at a much lower rate than in recent history. I found this an odd statement considering the numbers I've seen thrown around this bitch.
ACA passed years ago and insurance companies have been adjusting in preparation. ACA still caused the massive increases over the last few years. To take the position that growth has slows is about as accurate as Obama stating deficits is shrinking under his leadership - make a massive increase year one, still way overspend for years 2-6, claim spending reduction.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:47 AM   #120 (permalink)
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Does anyone realize the majority that sign up will be subsidized.

Does anyone realize a large portion will have pre-existing.

Does anyone realize for this to work young and healthy ones have to overload the system?

Just like any thing the government does, this is a cluster and will utter fail. This is the ultimate bridge to nowhere.
That's the problem that many are failing to see. Even if there are no direct subsidies that are visible, the young and the healthy are getting hosed by subsidizing the old and unhealthy at levels that were not there previously.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:59 AM   #121 (permalink)
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First teh PBB, and now this.

Canadian firm hired to build troubled Obamacare exchanges

Quote:
A Canadian tech firm that has provided service to that country's single-payer health care system is behind the glitch-ridden United States national health care exchange site healthcare.gov.

GCI Federal is a subsidiary of Montreal-based CGI Group. With offices in Fairfax, Va., the subsidiary has been a darling of the Obama administration, which since 2009 has bestowed it with $1.4 billion in federal contracts, according to USAspending.gov.

The "CGI" in the parent company's name stands for "Conseillers en Gestion et Informatique" in French, which roughly translates to "Information Systems and Management Consultants." However, the firm offers another translation: "Consultants to Government and Industry."

The company is deeply embedded in Canada’s single-payer system. GCI has provided IT services to the Canadian Ministries of Health in Alberta, British Columbia, New Brunswick, Quebec and Saskatchewan, as well as to the national health provider, Health Canada, according to GCI Group’s Canadian website.

As Canada’s No. 1 IT provider, the company states on its website that “95 federal departments, agencies, and crown corporations and most of Canada’s provinces partner with” the firm.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services awarded GCI $55.7 million to launch Healthcare.gov, its central Obamacare health exchange website. Over the full five years of the contract, GCI could receive as much as $93.7 million.

Earlier this year the U.S. Government Accountability Office criticized the pace of development and testing for Healthcare.gov.'s IT system and noted that it was missing important milestone deadlines.

Consumers have encountered widespread problems since Obamacare's website went live on Tuesday. The system has crashed, pages do not open and many citizens complain they cannot register.

HHS is by far the single largest federal contractor of GCI, showering it with $645 million in contracts. The Defense Department pays the Canadian company $254 million, the EPA $58 million and the Justice Department $36 million.

The General Services Administration, which oversees many government buildings, has contracts with GCI valued at $35 million, according to USASpending.gov.

In comparison, in 2008, under President George W. Bush, GCI contracts totaled only $16.5 million for all federal departments and agencies. 	

Serge Godin founded the firm in Montreal in 1976. One of Canada's billionaires, Godin was named in 2011 by Canadian Business magazine as one of that nation's 100 richest individuals.

As chairman, Godin leads a corporate colossus with a market capitalization of $8.9 billion. His company is worth $1 billion more than another major Canadian tech firm, BlackBerry, formerly known as Research In Motion, according to the Globe & Mail in January. The company employs 11,000 in Canada and 69,000 worldwide, operating in 40 countries.

According to Forbes, last year Godin received an annual compensation package worth $4.6 million. He personally owns 31.9 million shares of GCI stock worth more than $1 billion.

Capitalizing on a weak European economy and a strong Canadian dollar, last year GCI purchased Logica PLC for $2.6 billion, its largest acquisition. The company has announced the layoff of more than 1,000 employees.

GCI shares are publicly traded on the Toronto and New York stock exchanges. Since March 2013, its stock has rocketed from $23 per share to $37.

RBC Capital Markets, of the Royal Bank of Canada, upgraded GCI from "perform" to "outperform" expectations.

Canadian firm hired to build troubled Obamacare exchanges | WashingtonExaminer.com
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[QUOTE=rustywagoneersdotcom;11056223]Political Correctness is a doctrine that holds forth the proposition that it is possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.[/QUOTE]

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Old 10-04-2013, 09:07 AM   #122 (permalink)
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Romneycare in MA has been a huge success. 97% of the state of MA has health insurance now. Much of Obamacare was modeled after it.
As a comparison, say 25% of MA folks went hungry, and 75% had food to eat. Then, Romneycare steps in and gives 97% of everyone shit sammiches to eat. Does that mean because 97% of people now have food to eat, that the quality of the food is better than it was before and the system is a success???
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Old 10-04-2013, 09:11 AM   #123 (permalink)
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Does anyone realize the majority that sign up will be subsidized.

I fully do. Not sure if you are adding on to my post there, or disagreeing...

Does anyone realize a large portion will have pre-existing.

Does anyone realize for this to work young and healthy ones have to overload the system?

Just like any thing the government does, this is a cluster and will utter fail. This is the ultimate bridge to nowhere.
Indeed.
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Old 10-04-2013, 09:13 AM   #124 (permalink)
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Indeed.
Quite.
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Old 10-04-2013, 09:32 AM   #125 (permalink)
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The number of folks out in the world that have NO idea that their employer pays a portion of the healthcare premium is mindboggling.
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