Wounded warrior project a scam? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Miscellaneous > General Chit-Chat
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-19-2013, 05:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Member # 117278
Posts: 389
Wounded warrior project a scam?

I know our local 4x4 groups have done some stuff to help raise $ for WWP, read for your self, but I'm done giving them any money..........

Wounded Warriors Project A Legal Scam | Veterans Today
stan o is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 05:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Member # 81214
Location: Lanna, Jawja
Posts: 3,258
just like any other organized charity.
You have to pay someone to manage it and maintain government compliance. 1-2% staff salary isn't that bad in the scheme of things.
Never Monday is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 05:30 AM   #3 (permalink)
Unleash the me.
 
LucasFury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Member # 113176
Location: Americatown, Japan
Posts: 10,041
Blog Entries: 1
Incredibly common. It's more likely the case than not when it comes to any 501(c).
The anti-2A is news to me though. I'm gonna look into that tomorrow.
__________________
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say that there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."
LucasFury is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 05:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
Fawk Eddie Oh
 
Roc Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Member # 20631
Location: Las Vegas, Hell
Posts: 8,823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Never Monday View Post
just like any other organized charity.
You have to pay someone to manage it and maintain government compliance. 1-2% staff salary isn't that bad in the scheme of things.
It can be an incredible amount of work. My wife operates a 501c3 and nobody is taking a dime out of it, but if it's going to get bigger she'll have to quit her day job and do it full time, or find qualified people that can take on more responsibility and that's the tough part...getting volunteers to work like they're getting paid.

I know there are a lot of charities that have way too much admin load, but I agree with you 1-2% is pretty good, if those numbers are accurate.
__________________
Buy my FZJ80!
Roc Doc is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 06:08 AM   #5 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
oldjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Member # 3511
Location: MN
Posts: 4,969
x whatever. 1-2% admin seems more than reasonable, and the guy complaining about execs making 300K just doesn't understand that is the only way you get qualified people to run a big organization.

Where he does have a point is - if they are just collecting and then redistributing to other charities then there is some waste in that since you are doubling up on the admin costs.
__________________
Chuck P
The clowns'? Oh, yeah, the clowns. We fight them too — entire armies, spilling out of Volkswagons. We do our best to fight them off, but they keep sending 'em in!
www.oldjeep.com
oldjeep is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 06:12 AM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Member # 11134
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 529
Send a message via AIM to beerisgood
I'll have to dig it up, but my mom's union gives her a list of charities and the percentage of donations used as administrative overhead. If I remember correctly, the Red Cross is something like 10%. So, in comparison 1-2% isn't that bad.
__________________
[FONT="Verdana"][COLOR="Red"]Flaming Weasel Marketing and Promotion-Your full service sponsorship locator, proposal creation, and servicing company. I don’t make money unless you do-100% commission. 50% of all sales from PBB will be donated to land use organizations. Send a PM to see what we can do to help you. [/FONT][/COLOR]
Téigh trasna ort féin
I need a CTD engine...have one for sale?
beerisgood is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 06:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
not my fence problem
 
bigbroncojeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Member # 43837
Location: NNW-ish Houston, TX
Posts: 1,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
x whatever. 1-2% admin seems more than reasonable, and the guy complaining about execs making 300K just doesn't understand that is the only way you get qualified people to run a big organization.

Where he does have a point is - if they are just collecting and then redistributing to other charities then there is some waste in that since you are doubling up on the admin costs.
Glad you point out the salaries. If they are good at what they do, they require the pay. Or tgey will leave and go elsewhere that will pay.

People complain about high exec salaries. Corps don't give them these for fin and kindness. They do our of necessity.
__________________
RIP SPRING CREEK OFF ROAD

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
bigbroncojeff is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 06:26 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Member # 5371
Location: TN
Posts: 3,421
Send a message via MSN to rockota
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
Where he does have a point is - if they are just collecting and then redistributing to other charities then there is some waste in that since you are doubling up on the admin costs.
United Way has made an entire business out of being a clearing house...
rockota is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 06:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
Fawk Eddie Oh
 
Roc Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Member # 20631
Location: Las Vegas, Hell
Posts: 8,823
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbroncojeff View Post
Glad you point out the salaries. If they are good at what they do, they require the pay. Or tgey will leave and go elsewhere that will pay.

People complain about high exec salaries. Corps don't give them these for fin and kindness. They do our of necessity.
Yeah that's the theory and bully for them if they can get the pay, but so many of these execs get guaranteed pay rather than performance based compensation.

The company I worked for was paying the property presidents high 6 digit to low 7 digit annual compensation during the boom times up to 2006 or so. So for example my property grossed $115m in 2006 and everybody patted themselves on the back and figured they should shoot for $134m in 2007. Guess what, they only did $75m, and have been stuck there ever since. So how talented were they that they couldn't do proper forecasting, didn't see the bubble burst coming, and didn't have a plan other than cutting jobs when things went south.

Look at Meg Whitman.
__________________
Buy my FZJ80!
Roc Doc is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 06:54 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Buckon37s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Member # 20394
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,726
Quote:
Originally Posted by beerisgood View Post
I'll have to dig it up, but my mom's union gives her a list of charities and the percentage of donations used as administrative overhead. If I remember correctly, the Red Cross is something like 10%. So, in comparison 1-2% isn't that bad.
Exactly. I've seen some that are 25%. I won't donate to those. But just 2% is actually excellent. It takes as much to run these as it does a business and you can't get people to work full time for free.
__________________
[I]BUCK[/I] Wild Racing
Team 911

Thank you all for your support

Widia Cutting Tools [url]www.widia.com[/url]
Sterling Autosport [url]www.sterlingautosport.com/[/url]
PSC [url]www.pscmotorsports.com/[/url]
Ruffstuff [url]www.ruffstuffspecialties.com[/url]
Tom Woods Drive Shafts [url]www.4xshaft.com[/url]
[url]www.facebook.com/buckwildracing[/url]
Buckon37s is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 07:04 AM   #11 (permalink)
not my fence problem
 
bigbroncojeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Member # 43837
Location: NNW-ish Houston, TX
Posts: 1,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Doc View Post
Yeah that's the theory and bully for them if they can get the pay, but so many of these execs get guaranteed pay rather than performance based compensation.

The company I worked for was paying the property presidents high 6 digit to low 7 digit annual compensation during the boom times up to 2006 or so. So for example my property grossed $115m in 2006 and everybody patted themselves on the back and figured they should shoot for $134m in 2007. Guess what, they only did $75m, and have been stuck there ever since. So how talented were they that they couldn't do proper forecasting, didn't see the bubble burst coming, and didn't have a plan other than cutting jobs when things went south.

Look at Meg Whitman.

I agree. No where did I say that they were worth it lol. But to keep ones that are perceived as decent it takes the pay our they will go elsewhere
__________________
RIP SPRING CREEK OFF ROAD

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
bigbroncojeff is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 07:12 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Member # 5473
Location: Bristol,Pa
Posts: 312
From article:

I did note the pie chart percentages which you mention (Administrative Expense: 4.4%, Fundraising Exp.: 12.8%). Based on the WWP Form 990, these figures are misleading. Total 2011 revenues were $154.9 MM with total fundraising expenses of $20.5MM and total administrative expenses, including outsourced services, of $95.5MM. Note that the total administrative expense includes fund raising. Therefore, as a percentage of total revenue, administrative expenses amount to 61.63%, including fundraising expenses of 13.2%. This equates to 38.36% of revenues available to benefit wounded warriors.

As far as I can determine, WWP outsources all major functions, including fundraising, legal, donation processing, donation distribution, etc.

Compensation for the top ten WWP employees runs from $150K to $333K per officer annually.
__________________
Building a ZJ..
MilspecXJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 07:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
howyadoin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 84132
Location: Arizona-It's a dry heat!
Posts: 4,739
From the article...
"Total 2011 revenues were $154.9 MM with total fundraising expenses of $20.5MM and total administrative expenses, including outsourced services, of $95.5MM. Note that the total administrative expense includes fund raising. Therefore, as a percentage of total revenue, administrative expenses amount to 61.63%, including fundraising expenses of 13.2%. This equates to 38.36% of revenues available to benefit wounded warriors."

I know that few "charities" are known for being efficient, but 38% of all revenues benefiting the "end users" seems a little low...time to do some research.

Edit, apparently MilspecXJ and I were looking at the same thing at the same time...he beat me to it.
__________________
AZ Undertakers
www.jaggedx.com
www.crdesigns.com
www.geiserbros.com
www.campbellent.com
AEI Motorsports

Last edited by howyadoin; 12-19-2013 at 07:14 AM.
howyadoin is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 07:14 AM   #14 (permalink)
Newbie
 
U.P. Jeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Member # 125361
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Never Monday View Post
just like any other organized charity.
You have to pay someone to manage it and maintain government compliance. 1-2% staff salary isn't that bad in the scheme of things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
x whatever. 1-2% admin seems more than reasonable, and the guy complaining about execs making 300K just doesn't understand that is the only way you get qualified people to run a big organization.

Where he does have a point is - if they are just collecting and then redistributing to other charities then there is some waste in that since you are doubling up on the admin costs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beerisgood View Post
I'll have to dig it up, but my mom's union gives her a list of charities and the percentage of donations used as administrative overhead. If I remember correctly, the Red Cross is something like 10%. So, in comparison 1-2% isn't that bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s View Post
Exactly. I've seen some that are 25%. I won't donate to those. But just 2% is actually excellent. It takes as much to run these as it does a business and you can't get people to work full time for free.
Where oh where did y'all come up with the 1-2% administrative costs? Did you bother reading the article? Here, let me quote from the article that broke down the WWP's tax return:
Quote:
Based on the WWP Form 990, these figures are misleading. Total 2011 revenues were $154.9 MM with total fundraising expenses of $20.5MM and total administrative expenses, including outsourced services, of $95.5MM. Note that the total administrative expense includes fund raising. Therefore, as a percentage of total revenue, administrative expenses amount to 61.63%
Administrative expenses that high mean that it's just lining the pockets of the people who run the organization. Considering that they donate to other 501c organizations (who also have administrative costs) that directly help vets, I don't see much of the money donated to the WWP "charity" actually doing much good.
__________________
"It is characteristic of the unlearned, that they are forever proposing something which is old, and because it has recently come to their attention, supposing it to be new." Coolidge

"A gun is like a parachute: If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again"

Last edited by U.P. Jeep; 12-19-2013 at 07:15 AM.
U.P. Jeep is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 07:16 AM   #15 (permalink)
not my fence problem
 
bigbroncojeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Member # 43837
Location: NNW-ish Houston, TX
Posts: 1,478
Ouch
__________________
RIP SPRING CREEK OFF ROAD

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
bigbroncojeff is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 07:17 AM   #16 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
howyadoin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 84132
Location: Arizona-It's a dry heat!
Posts: 4,739
Well, it seems 38% doesn't look very good upon initial review...
The 50 Largest U.S. Charities - Forbes
__________________
AZ Undertakers
www.jaggedx.com
www.crdesigns.com
www.geiserbros.com
www.campbellent.com
AEI Motorsports
howyadoin is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 07:18 AM   #17 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Member # 3723
Location: A bridge too far
Posts: 370
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockota View Post
United Way has made an entire business out of being a clearing house...
Exactly! United Way (or as I called them "United Amway" is in a lot of ways a pyramid scam.

First, they get biz owners on the hook, so that all of their employees are essentially forced to provide time, resources, and money to their "cause". Then, they make the sign-up rally very public, so that if you don't do it, everyone knows it & that you are somehow "different". Really appropriate while I was at a company which did not issue any raises the entire time I was employed there. Very "community organizer-esque", but it lets the bosses feel good and look good with all the other biz cronies at their clubs and organizations. Example article

Roughly 20% of United Way's expenditures are administration, but they constantly tout "100% back into the community". Well, sure it is: because their people have to spend their salaries

The CEO of United Way drew a little over $1M salary & comp last year.

Nope, never gave them a dime, nor will I.
__________________
Entropy "After a solid fifteen minutes of passing what felt like multiple babies out my purple starfish, it was over....When I stood up and looked back at my handy work I was pleasantly surprised to find nearly all the water in the toilet completely displaced by what was now a literal MOUND of crap"
themaddhatter is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 07:20 AM   #18 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
howyadoin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Member # 84132
Location: Arizona-It's a dry heat!
Posts: 4,739
"COST TO RAISE $100
This dollar amount reflects how much is spent to raise each $100 of funds collected. In CharityWatch’s view, $35 or less to raise $100 is reasonable for most charities. When a range is given, the lower amount usually reflects the charity’s own decision on how much direct mail and telemarketing costs are bona-fide fundraising expenses. In some cases, CharityWatch adjusts the lower number to reflect its different view on whether an item is a fundraising expense. The higher CharityWatch number assumes that all (please see “Exceptions for Social Welfare Groups” below) direct mail and telemarketing solicitation costs are fund-raising expenses. "

From here...
CharityWatch Rating Criteria

So it appears that 62% is WAAAAAY beyond excessive...probably not a good sign for the Wounded Warrior program or those that have donated....or most importantly those who benefit. .02
__________________
AZ Undertakers
www.jaggedx.com
www.crdesigns.com
www.geiserbros.com
www.campbellent.com
AEI Motorsports
howyadoin is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 07:21 AM   #19 (permalink)
Rock God
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Member # 157355
Location: NY
Posts: 1,292
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
x whatever. 1-2% admin seems more than reasonable, and the guy complaining about execs making 300K just doesn't understand that is the only way you get qualified people to run a big organization.

Where he does have a point is - if they are just collecting and then redistributing to other charities then there is some waste in that since you are doubling up on the admin costs.
this. 300k to run a 154M business is nothing to complain about. Looks to me like the CEO is doing it for charity . I'd expect a 7 figure income to successfully run a business that large. The other key executives should be at 400K and up.


The fact that the money takes double admin hits is the real issue here. if 30% goes to other companies 5% - 30% of that 30% only gets to people.
__________________
Minimal mech. knowledge, overly ambitious

Last edited by Pokeman; 12-19-2013 at 07:22 AM.
Pokeman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 07:33 AM   #20 (permalink)
Big Meanie
 
Haole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 5859
Location: In a house.
Posts: 2,257
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by U.P. Jeep View Post
Where oh where did y'all come up with the 1-2% administrative costs? Did you bother reading the article? Here, let me quote from the article that broke down the WWP's tax return:


Administrative expenses that high mean that it's just lining the pockets of the people who run the organization. Considering that they donate to other 501c organizations (who also have administrative costs) that directly help vets, I don't see much of the money donated to the WWP "charity" actually doing much good.
I'm thinking a whole lot of people didn't read the article.

I seem to remember a similar article a year or two ago.
__________________
Ka 'aina uluwehi, ko kakou
kuleana.


- The lush life-giving land, our personal responsibility.


Ventura County Axle Snappers - Nevada County Chapter
Haole is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 07:39 AM   #21 (permalink)
Rock God
 
paragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Member # 40266
Location: Jackson, MS USA
Posts: 2,292
dude has a stupid take on reading the return.

WWP doesn't just take money in and give it to wounded veterans. they actually do spend the money on things (his idea of outsourcing)


he is the one being misleading
__________________
.

...

"For God and country, Geronimo, Geronimo, Geronimo"
paragon is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 07:43 AM   #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4878
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 6,226
Send a message via ICQ to Travis Waldher Send a message via MSN to Travis Waldher Send a message via Yahoo to Travis Waldher
It's not 1-2%.

Office expenses alone account for 8% of their $154 million. About 1/3 of that was fundraising expenses.

About $40 million are in "other" expenses, and if those other expenses exceed line 25 ($95 million, total expenses) by 10% you have to fill out another form. They are at 35%.

Now, most of those "other" expenses are the services they are offering to wounded vets. Now, I've read a few reports in print about wounded vets attempting to use some of those services and being unable to.

I wouldn't donate to them, I don't like the looks of their books. That said, I don't donate money to big non-profits, I feel the cause I'm donating for is really the non-profit, not those the non-profit claims to help. When those big ones ask for money, I tell them no but I will give them some of my time. Then they say no, that they want money - I got my answer.

Last edited by Travis Waldher; 12-19-2013 at 07:45 AM.
Travis Waldher is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 07:44 AM   #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
-Twitch-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Member # 192536
Posts: 166
PULLED THIS OF THE INTERNET NOT SURE HOW ACCURATE IT IS


The American Red Cross
President and CEO Marsha J. Evans' salary for the year was $651,957 plus expenses


MARCH OF DIMES
It is called the March of Dimes because only a dime for every 1 dollar is given to the needy.

The United Way
President Brian Gallagher receives a $375,000 base salary along with numerous expense benefits.

UNICEF
CEO Caryl M. Stern receives $1,200,000 per year (100k per month) plus all expenses including a ROLLS ROYCE.
Less than 5 cents of your donated dollar goes to the cause.

GOODWILL CEO and owner Mark Curran profits $2.3 million a year.
Goodwill is a very catchy name for his business.
You donate to his business and then he sells the items for PROFIT.
He pays nothing for his products and pays his workers minimum wage! Nice Guy.
$0.00 goes to help anyone! Stop giving to this man.


Instead, give it to ANY OF THE FOLLOWING

GO "GREEN" AND PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE IT WILL DO SOME GOOD:

The Salvation Army
Commissioner, Todd Bassett receives a small salary of only $13,000 per year (plus housing) for managing this $2 billion dollar organization.
96 percent of donated dollars go to the cause.

The American Legion
National Commander receives a $0.00 zero salary.
Your donations go to help Veterans and their families and youth!


The Veterans of Foreign Wars
National Commander receives a $0.00 zero salary.
Your donations go to help Veterans and their families and youth!

The Disabled American Veterans
National Commander receives a $0.00 zero salary.
Your donations go to help Veterans and their families and youth!

The Military Order of Purple Hearts
National Commander receives a $0.00 zero salary.
Your donations go to help Veterans and their families and youth!

The Vietnam Veterans Association
National Commander receives a $0.00 zero salary.
Your donations go to help Veterans and their families and youth!

Make a Wish: For children's last wishes.
100% goes to funding trips or special wishes for a dying child.

St. Jude Research Hospital
100% goes towards funding and helping Children with Cancer who have no insurance and can not afford to pay.

Ronald McDonald Houses
All monies go to running the houses for parents who have critical Children in the hospital.
100% goes to housing, and feeding the families.

Lions Club International
100% OF DONATIONS GO TO HELP THE BLIND, BUY HEARING AIDES, SUPPORT MEDICAL MISSIONS AROUND THE WORLD. THEIR LATEST UNDERTAKING IS MEASLES VACCINATIONS (ONLY $1.00 PER SHOT).
Read more at snopes.com: Executive Salaries in Charities
-Twitch- is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 07:45 AM   #24 (permalink)
Rock God
 
paragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Member # 40266
Location: Jackson, MS USA
Posts: 2,292
Quote:
Originally Posted by U.P. Jeep View Post
Where oh where did y'all come up with the 1-2% administrative costs? Did you bother reading the article? Here, let me quote from the article that broke down the WWP's tax return:


Administrative expenses that high mean that it's just lining the pockets of the people who run the organization. Considering that they donate to other 501c organizations (who also have administrative costs) that directly help vets, I don't see much of the money donated to the WWP "charity" actually doing much good.

they list their administrative costs. he is including the money spent on programs, events, etc as "administrative costs" like it is part of salaries. that is money spent directly on veterans. or the money he likes to attribute to "outsourcing". like paying for flights, venues, etc
__________________
.

...

"For God and country, Geronimo, Geronimo, Geronimo"
paragon is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2013, 07:51 AM   #25 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4878
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 6,226
Send a message via ICQ to Travis Waldher Send a message via MSN to Travis Waldher Send a message via Yahoo to Travis Waldher
Quote:
Originally Posted by paragon View Post
they list their administrative costs. he is including the money spent on programs, events, etc as "administrative costs" like it is part of salaries. that is money spent directly on veterans. or the money he likes to attribute to "outsourcing". like paying for flights, venues, etc
The guy that wrote the article messed up reading the 990.

BUT

That 1-2% is FAR from the truth. Read their 990.
Travis Waldher is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.