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Old 06-19-2017, 07:46 AM   #26 (permalink)
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How much cash do honestly need?? I live in San Diego and could easily get across the country and back without a large sum of cash. Hell I bet I could drive to screwy and help him drink bleach then on to overbear and help him ass ride a shotgun move on to dumage and teach him the fundamentals of rational thought then go to maryland and wake up pewpew for work then get home all for less than 2 grand.

Now that I think about it more do I have any donations for a road trip?
Why should anyone tell you what you can legally do? How much horse power do you need when the speed limit is 65? You can go faster? Then you must be a street racer and your car should be impounded. How much clearance do you need on your truck? It looks like it can go off road? You must be driving in restricted areas. Your truck needs to be impounded.

Just be cause you can does not mean you will. A lot of the phone laws were passed in the 70's on the assumption that they were land lines. There were no cell towers, phones we not mobile. The same way that the courts said that cops cannot just put a tracking device on your car because they suspect something is going on, they should not be able to use your device to track your every movement just because they think you "might" do something wrong.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:52 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Why do you think 90% of phones on the market have a non removable battery?
Yep...personally if I were off to go do some dirt I would just leave the phone at home.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:53 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Mexican dude had like $150k in cash seized from him a couple years ago under assumption of drug trafficking. Dude had no priors and supposedly had pooled his money with some others to buy a refrigerated truck. Truck was sold before he got there after flying out so someone rented him a car to take back. Officer couldn't get him for anything so he had drug dogs sniff the car then seized the cash. Which ever circuit court it ended overturned a lower court and said that the search and seizure were reasonable because that much cash must be drug related.

Basically what happens is the property (in most cases cash, but often cars, property, ect) is charged with a crime instead of the person because property has no legal rights. Burden of proof falls on the person who owned the property and they rarely if ever see a judge, let alone get their shit back. The practice goes back to the 1700s when it was used to combat piracy on ship crews that had diplomatic immunity or weren't subject to US/local jurisdictions.

Civil asset forfeiture was huge under the Bush administration and early in the Obama administration because there were huge incentives for local police to do it for the Feds through kickbacks from the DoJ. About the only thing Holder ever did worth a shit was end that program so it's not as rampant as it was. Still, you won't catch me transporting anything over a few grand out of state due to the risk.

There was a guy out in the midwest somewhere that ran an honest motel that got used for a shitload of drug deals, prostitution, ect. The owner spent months trying to get the cops to do their jobs but it never happened. Owner ended up being charged for all kinds of shit by the DEA/DoJ but they couldn't stick any of the charges so they ended up seizing the property instead and the dude lost everything he had fighting to get it back.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:56 AM   #29 (permalink)
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"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

This argument over what's protected from search and seizure is as old as the Constitution. The Feds have tried pushing the boundaries from the start in attempts to seize diaries, journals, ect.

My phone is my own personal device and as such there is a reasonable expectation of privacy and covered under the Fourth. It's no different than a journal, my car, ect which are all protected from unreasonable search and seizures. They need warrants and subpoenas for land line records, they need them for cell phones as well.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:57 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by crowbar7 View Post
How much cash do honestly need?? I live in San Diego and could easily get across the country and back without a large sum of cash. Hell I bet I could drive to screwy and help him drink bleach then on to overbear and help him ass ride a shotgun move on to dumage and teach him the fundamentals of rational thought then go to maryland and wake up pewpew for work then get home all for less than 2 grand.

Now that I think about it more do I have any donations for a road trip?
How much I need makes no difference in the argument, I will carry as much cash as I wish and unless I am caught doing something illegal that can put that money into question as to its origins then they can just fuck off. Carrying large sums of money is not illegal in the slightest.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:17 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Hypothetically: Trailer lights are out. Let's say its in 20's snd 100's. You pulled it from your safe on a weekend. The cop asks to search your truck because you're traveling with a gun in the glove box, you bought on the used market 10 years ago, and it's not registered to you.


The proper response is "NO", next if the officer is adamant is "as soon as I have a lawyer here to make sure this is being done in full accordance with the law" next step is shut up and wait for lawyer. Many officers don't even know they are required to provide one for you if you request it. Don't roll your window down more than a few inches to communicate and keep your door locked. Keep you hands of the wheel and interior lights on. That way the officer can have a level of safety as well while you wait for said lawyer.

I will never consent to a search of my truck/car/house/property. If they have just cause they will do it. If not they won't, and if they do it without just cause it will cost them $$$ plus most anything "wrong" they find is inadmissible in court. Stand up for your rights but be polite and professional at the same time. Most all police/judges/lawyers would do the same thing.


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Old 06-19-2017, 08:19 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Turn off locations services....lessons learned :P
Triangulation from multiple cell towers will allow tracking. Not a close as GPS but still allows them to follow your moves.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:23 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I have done this... I had 30K on me at one time to make a cash purchase.

So had I been pulled over, your saying I would have the cash seized, and have to prove it's origins AND the intent of having that much cash?

WTF?

Guess I'm old skool...
20+ years ago it was not uncommon to carry $50K in cash to equipment auctions
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:22 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Yea...it shouldn't matter. how would the officer know you have $25k in your car? did you get it all in $1 bills and stuff it all in your pockets? what did you get pulled over for? speeding or dollar bills flying out of your sunroof?
You acted "suspicious" or showed signs of nervousness and "criminal indicators" during an otherwise average traffic stop.

in other words, officer makes up some bullshit PC, searches your shit, finds the 10 grand you were taking to buy a car and then it's automatically assumed that it's drug money and they take it.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:05 AM   #35 (permalink)
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then it's automatically assumed that it's drug money and they take it.
and folks say the war on drugs is effective

how much stronger would the 4th be without the "must be drugs" copout?
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:30 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Why should anyone tell you what you can legally do? How much horse power do you need when the speed limit is 65? You can go faster? Then you must be a street racer and your car should be impounded. How much clearance do you need on your truck? It looks like it can go off road? You must be driving in restricted areas. Your truck needs to be impounded.

Just be cause you can does not mean you will. A lot of the phone laws were passed in the 70's on the assumption that they were land lines. There were no cell towers, phones we not mobile. The same way that the courts said that cops cannot just put a tracking device on your car because they suspect something is going on, they should not be able to use your device to track your every movement just because they think you "might" do something wrong.
all good points, too bad the Feds don't see it the same way.

and we keep electing these fools that put other fools in power.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:42 AM   #37 (permalink)
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You acted "suspicious" or showed signs of nervousness and "criminal indicators" during an otherwise average traffic stop.



in other words, officer makes up some bullshit PC, searches your shit, finds the 10 grand you were taking to buy a car and then it's automatically assumed that it's drug money and they take it.


Once again use your brain and make sure a lawyer is there before you get out of your car. Often times the money doesn't get returned. Or court cost eat up most of what you lost. Tell the officer you want to contact your lawyer. If they say no make them contact a lawyer for you. Wait, wait some more, then when the state provided lawyer shows up inform them you were denied your right to contact your lawyer and you would like to call your lawyer. It's really that simple. If you have your doors unlocked and or window rolled all the way down and they rip you out of it then it's a he said she said shit show. If you don't unlock your ride and get out then you can wait. If you have drugs or explosives or anything else illegal in your ride your probably fucked anyways.

Like I said before if they have cause to search your shit they will. If no cause they have to wait for your lawyer and or your consent.

I have done this once. Took about 2hrs, I didn't have anything illegal in my ride. I was asked if the officer could search my rig, said I seemed nervous, I declined, and didn't even respond to his nervous comment. He said he wanted to search my rig and I said no again. He asked why and I said I wanted a lawyer present to make sure it was all legal and such. About 5-10 minutes later 2 other patrol cars showed up. Each came to the passenger window and drivers window both cracked about 3-4". Plenty far to hear clearly. I informed them of the same thing as I told the first officer. About an hour and half later I got the night sergeant. He came to the window and asked the same questions. I told him I would not consent to a search. He asked why and I said I don't believe you have probable cause. He asked me a few more questions and I informed him I was willing to wait for a lawyer till whenever. Eventually he came up to my window again handed me my license and paperwork back and told me to drive safe.

It's that simple or take your day in court.
If you routinely carry that much cash then get a small safe, finger print pistol safe, under your front seat. And don't fucking open it regardless.


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Old 06-19-2017, 10:51 AM   #38 (permalink)
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It's that simple or take your day in court.
If you routinely carry that much cash then get a small safe, finger print pistol safe, under your front seat. And don't fucking open it regardless.


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dumb


drug dogs will detect residue on cash. dog detects, your shit gets ripped open regardless. your position is fight the symptom if it ever shows up instead of addressing the actual fucking problem
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:52 AM   #39 (permalink)
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and folks say the war on drugs is effective
it is effective


effectively drives up the cost of all my street drugs so the CIA can make more black money
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:04 AM   #40 (permalink)
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I will never consent to a search of my truck/car/house/property. If they have just cause they will do it. If not they won't, and if they do it without just cause it will cost them $$$ plus most anything "wrong" they find is inadmissible in court. Stand up for your rights but be polite and professional at the same time. Most all police/judges/lawyers would do the same thing.


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I've refused several times politely. Only had one cop go off on me and used the old "if you've got nothing to hide" argument and I stood my ground. Got sent on my way with a verbal warning.

All the others have just said alright and moved on with the stop. They ain't your friend, they're trying to fuck you. Nobody in their right mind should agree to a search.
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:09 AM   #41 (permalink)
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dumb





drug dogs will detect residue on cash. dog detects, your shit gets ripped open regardless. your position is fight the symptom if it ever shows up instead of addressing the actual fucking problem


I guess that's a risk I will take vs folding like a lawn chair. If you don't want to stand up for your right then don't. I will and yes in a situation like that I will wait for a lawyer to be there before anything happens.

Remember. Anything you say can and will be used against you, but not for your defense. However if a lawyer is present for you they can witness in your defense


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Old 06-19-2017, 11:09 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Once again use your brain and make sure a lawyer is there before you get out of your car. Often times the money doesn't get returned. Or court cost eat up most of what you lost. Tell the officer you want to contact your lawyer. If they say no make them contact a lawyer for you. Wait, wait some more, then when the state provided lawyer shows up inform them you were denied your right to contact your lawyer and you would like to call your lawyer. It's really that simple. If you have your doors unlocked and or window rolled all the way down and they rip you out of it then it's a he said she said shit show. If you don't unlock your ride and get out then you can wait. If you have drugs or explosives or anything else illegal in your ride your probably fucked anyways.

Like I said before if they have cause to search your shit they will. If no cause they have to wait for your lawyer and or your consent.

I have done this once. Took about 2hrs, I didn't have anything illegal in my ride. I was asked if the officer could search my rig, said I seemed nervous, I declined, and didn't even respond to his nervous comment. He said he wanted to search my rig and I said no again. He asked why and I said I wanted a lawyer present to make sure it was all legal and such. About 5-10 minutes later 2 other patrol cars showed up. Each came to the passenger window and drivers window both cracked about 3-4". Plenty far to hear clearly. I informed them of the same thing as I told the first officer. About an hour and half later I got the night sergeant. He came to the window and asked the same questions. I told him I would not consent to a search. He asked why and I said I don't believe you have probable cause. He asked me a few more questions and I informed him I was willing to wait for a lawyer till whenever. Eventually he came up to my window again handed me my license and paperwork back and told me to drive safe.

It's that simple or take your day in court.
If you routinely carry that much cash then get a small safe, finger print pistol safe, under your front seat. And don't fucking open it regardless.


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Id say you got lucky because you have no right to a lawyer to get searched by the cops. You can evoke your right to remain silent until your lawyer is there but if they have probable cause to search your ass is getting searched with no lawyer.
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:13 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Yea...the cops will do what they want in the end, but putting up a verbal fight at the get go MAY get them to stand down. You never know.

protect and serve. HA.
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:11 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Phone off, battery out
Good idea BUT... not all smart phones/iPhones have removable batteries. Know the Samsung S7/S8 doesn't.
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:12 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Good idea BUT... not all smart phones/iPhones have removable batteries. Know the Samsung S7/S8 doesn't.
Just put it in a ziplock bag full of water. Problem solved.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:29 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Id say you got lucky because you have no right to a lawyer to get searched by the cops. You can evoke your right to remain silent until your lawyer is there but if they have probable cause to search your ass is getting searched with no lawyer.


In Washington you do have a right to a lawyer at the seen of a "suspected felony stop", see DUI, drug, any reason to pull you out of the car and search it. You ask them for a lawyer and invoke your 5th amendment rights. It's not luck at all. And as I said before, if they have actually probable cause they will search it. If they are fishing and you stand up for yourself they have to provide you a lawyer before they can force you from the car unless you are a violent or dangerous person(s). I know way too many defense lawyers, have family that is retired LEO's they all agree on this. A normal traffic stop does not give them cause to remove you from a car/truck. Neither does acting nervous because a vast majority of the population gets nervous when being confronted by a LEO. Know your rights and stand up for yourself. Be polite be courteous and be firm. If they place you under arrest or in to custody then fine, but they need to prove cause when you have your day in court. And having drug residue on a dollar bill is not good cause for arrest. Most all bills have that.

There is a big difference between a traffic stop and a felony stop. From the way they call them in to the way they approach or don't approach the rig but dictate instruction from behind you. But yea don't stand up for yourself and just roll over.

I have the utmost respect for LEO's but even more respect for the law. It's must be follow by all or should be followed by none.


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Old 06-19-2017, 01:30 PM   #47 (permalink)
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dumb


drug dogs will detect residue on cash. dog detects, your shit gets ripped open regardless. your position is fight the symptom if it ever shows up instead of addressing the actual fucking problem
and that's a good way to catch an actual felony.

cause the war on drugs.
In ohio that would be automatically assumed to be a concealed compartment for smuggling, and then they take your shit.

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When approved by the Ohio General Assembly and signed into law by Governor John Kasich, the bill created section 2923.241 of the Ohio Revised Code (ORC), stating that “no person shall knowingly design, build, construct, or fabricate a vehicle with a hidden compartment, or modify or alter any portion of a vehicle in order to create or add a hidden compartment, with the intent to facilitate the unlawful concealment or transportation of a controlled substance.”

The law does not apply to any “box, safe, container, or other item added to a vehicle for the purpose of securing valuables, electronics, or firearms,” as long as said items do not contain a “controlled substance or visible residue of a controlled substance” — which still seems to leave considerable ambiguity with regard to intent.
Controversial Hidden Compartment Law Applied in Ohio Arrest

but OFCC did some swab tests and basically anything that has ever touched money is going to test positive for cocaine.
so everything is now a fucking safe used to conceal drugs.

They amended the law to "visible" traces, but still.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:40 PM   #48 (permalink)
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In Washington you do have a right to a lawyer at the seen of a "suspected felony stop", see DUI, drug, any reason to pull you out of the car and search it. You ask them for a lawyer and invoke your 5th amendment rights. It's not luck at all. And as I said before, if they have actually probable cause they will search it. If they are fishing and you stand up for yourself they have to provide you a lawyer before they can force you from the car unless you are a violent or dangerous person(s). I know way too many defense lawyers, have family that is retired LEO's they all agree on this. A normal traffic stop does not give them cause to remove you from a car/truck. Neither does acting nervous because a vast majority of the population gets nervous when being confronted by a LEO. Know your rights and stand up for yourself. Be polite be courteous and be firm. If they place you under arrest or in to custody then fine, but they need to prove cause when you have your day in court. And having drug residue on a dollar bill is not good cause for arrest. Most all bills have that.

There is a big difference between a traffic stop and a felony stop. From the way they call them in to the way they approach or don't approach the rig but dictate instruction from behind you. But yea don't stand up for yourself and just roll over.

I have the utmost respect for LEO's but even more respect for the law. It's must be follow by all or should be followed by none.


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Im gonna have to have you show me the law. A felony stop you are getting out at gun point and they arent waiting around on a lawyer. Last i knew a normal dui stop wasnt a felony stop. Im not arguing that you shouldnt let them over step their boundaries. I would never let a cop search me or my vehicle willingly.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:49 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:54 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Interesting supreme court case going on.

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Im gonna have to have you show me the law. A felony stop you are getting out at gun point and they arent waiting around on a lawyer. Last i knew a normal dui stop wasnt a felony stop. Im not arguing that you shouldnt let them over step their boundaries. I would never let a cop search me or my vehicle willingly.


Then you are arguing the same point. I am pointing out what has been told to me by defense lawyers and now retired LEO's. I have used it with success. If you want to know the exact law look it up. If you don't then don't. Could be state to state but they can't just search your rig without cause and nervous is not cause. Reread my first post in this thread. Don't get out of the rig. Don't unlock your doors or roll your windows all the way down. You don't even have to talk to an officer in most states. However in some states even handing your I.D. constitutes communication. As always check with a local lawyer if you have question. All states have slightly different laws.


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