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Old 08-10-2005, 08:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Can Somebody Explain This Osha Rule To Me

as per normal somebody has there head in there ass. was watching "dirty jobs" last night on tv and they where doing a segment on cleaning up pigeon poop. any way to reach a window they climbed up a ladder. nothing special about the ladder, just an ordinary extension ladder you or i could buy. well since they had to be OSHA compliant they had to wear a safety harness and then wrap the tail aroun the rungs because they where working above a certain level(wanna say the rule is 6 feet). anyway normally you wear a harness in a manlift or boom lift and your anchored to it and if you fell the harness would save you. what good is the harness tied to the ladder thats leaning on the building going to do???? fawk if you fell you'd probaly be safe without the harness. now not only do you get hurt in the fall but the ladder is going to come down on top of you
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I have a buddy that is a painter and he was taught that if you start falling on an extension ladder you bail off just before impact and roll. I would not want to be harnessed to any ladder. Seems retarded to me, but retardation and OSHA go hand in hand.
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:17 AM   #3 (permalink)
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No idea about OSHA but this made me realize I forgot to watch or tape that show .
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ironpig70
what good is the harness tied to the ladder thats leaning on the building going to do????
Not a damn bit of good actually

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Old 08-10-2005, 08:21 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Not a damn bit of good actually

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Sure it will. It'll ensure that the ladder falls on top of you
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:21 AM   #6 (permalink)
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No idea about OSHA but this made me realize I forgot to watch or tape that show .
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the show made me cringe some nasty stuff
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I saw that last night. I think someone misinterpted the rules. I have to deal w/ OSHA climbing rules with my job very often. I don't recall anything about tying into a ladder that isn't secured to the building.
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:58 AM   #8 (permalink)
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there isnt any rule specifically about climbing ladders and wearing fall protection

the OSHA rule is that if you're 6 ft or above, and not protected by a guardrail or something similar you have to be wearing fall protection

in my plants this means if they are using a lift without a cage they need to be tied off, preferably to a structural part of the building (if the forklift goes over, why be tied to that?). the general industry rules for ladders say that it has to be inspected, in good repair, and not be an electrocution hazard if you're working around electricity, but there are no rules in that section about fall protection and ladders

the scaffolding rules are different, and fall into an area that i'm not as familiar with, and there might be provisions in there, but regardless, being tied off to a ladder wont do you a bit of good.
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
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iirc they said something like 60 dieseas and its in there poop. and i don't know OSHA rules but i did about a year as a safety officer. will have to find my book and see what it says.


i think these guys misread the rules

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Old 08-10-2005, 09:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
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...but regardless, being tied off to a ladder wont do you a bit of good.
From what I understand, the tie off point has to be able to support something like +2000 pounds (unless it's part of an "engineered" system...then it only needs a 1.5X safety factor). There is something in the OSHA book about if wearing a safety harness can be more dangerous than not, you aren't required to wear it. The stuff I do falls under this category and I often don't use my harness. I work on ski lifts and falling off a 100' tower into snow is better than falling 6' and getting entangled in a chair moving 20mph. They don't make those harnesses break-away!


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there isnt any rule specifically about climbing ladders and wearing fall protection
I've been told that there is mention about permanent ladders. A climbing harness or a cage around the ladder is required for climbs that have a 20' fall potential
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Old 08-10-2005, 09:15 AM   #11 (permalink)
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balsax you are correct about harness intering buddy of mine is an iron worker and he doesn't use one on many jobs.
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Old 08-10-2005, 10:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsax
From what I understand, the tie off point has to be able to support something like +2000 pounds (unless it's part of an "engineered" system...then it only needs a 1.5X safety factor). There is something in the OSHA book about if wearing a safety harness can be more dangerous than not, you aren't required to wear it. The stuff I do falls under this category and I often don't use my harness. I work on ski lifts and falling off a 100' tower into snow is better than falling 6' and getting entangled in a chair moving 20mph. They don't make those harnesses break-away!




I've been told that there is mention about permanent ladders. A climbing harness or a cage around the ladder is required for climbs that have a 20' fall potential
yes, there are different rules for fixed ladders, though IIRC they're in the same section as portable ladders. i have a CFR sitting right here, i'm just too lazy to look through it. if you'd like it it wouldnt really take long to look up

i'm a dick about fall protection, and have thrown out contractors for not wearing fall protection when they should, though i do know situations where it would be more harmful than good

most ironworkers *should* be wearing fall protection, but companies dont want to invest in the right type of equipment so that they can move around without too many problems
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Old 08-10-2005, 11:05 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Buddy of mine owns a roofing company and he refuses to use the harneses they're supposed to wear because they cause more falls then they prevent.
Imagine, you're on a roof, air hoses laying everywhere, you go to walk over to get something and your drag line catches on something so you give it a yank not realising that it's wrapped around your co-workers ankle.
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Old 08-10-2005, 11:41 AM   #14 (permalink)
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they should have had a tie-off point overhead to attach the lanyard to, not to the ladder itself. The ladder has to be tied off to the wall or something, but not the person.
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Old 08-10-2005, 11:57 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Iron heads need to be tied off above 20 feet.
Everyone else is 6 feet.
You never tie off to a ladder ever, ever.
OSHA doesnt require you to be tied off while climbing one. And doing so is dangerous. some companys have a cable next to a vertical ladder and require a tollido to be hooked up to it then to your lanyard with a full body harness.
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Old 08-10-2005, 11:58 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryjpr
Sure it will. It'll ensure that the ladder falls on top of you
or worse, you fall on top of the ladder. ouch.
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Old 08-10-2005, 12:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsax
I saw that last night. I think someone misinterpted the rules. I have to deal w/ OSHA climbing rules with my job very often. I don't recall anything about tying into a ladder that isn't secured to the building.
They definitely screwed that up. You DON'T want to be tied off to the ladder, but to a steady object that will support the falling body.
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Old 08-10-2005, 05:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by papajeep
OSHA doesnt require you to be tied off while climbing one.
Actually, I thought OSHA height requirements were 20 feet for a ladder. Above that, you must tie off.

The tie off point should hold at LEAST 5000 pounds. That number isn't OSHA, but it's an acceptable number when you calculate the OSHA requirements for tie off points. Basically, any 5K pound capable tie off point is cool for them, under basically any situation.
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Old 08-10-2005, 06:03 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Safety rules are often dumb as shiet.

Two summers ago I was torching catwalks off the top of box cars.

They wanted me to tie myself off. But since I was on the TOP of the box car the only thing the rope would do is slam me pendulum style into the side of the box car. I would rather hit the pavement then swing into the side of the car and strangle in my rigging.
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Old 08-10-2005, 06:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
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the rule is 6 foot and your to be tied off. with latters there also suppose to be anchored tied off. to a stable point. so theres no chance of it falling. just took my osha 8 hr refreser class.

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Old 08-10-2005, 06:57 PM   #21 (permalink)
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the rule is 6 foot and your to be tied off.
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Sometimes 4.5 feet. I think also sometimes 8 feet. And ladders have totally different height rules than open platforms.

What's funny is when they want you to tie off above 6 feet, and the tie off point is 8 feet above the ground...especially when the single use bungie type harness requires 9 feet to halt your fall
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Old 08-10-2005, 07:04 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Just got back from Tallahassee where I've been taking my state master mechanical tests for the last 2 days. There was alot of OSHA stuff on it. 29CFR1926 OSHA standards, subpart x, 1926.1053 Ladders- nothing about tying off to portable ladders. The only ladder related tie off is on a fixed ladder where one section requires a climb of over 24 feet. the harness shouldn't allow a fall of over 6 feet. Never thought I'd be diggin the books back out already.
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Old 08-10-2005, 07:22 PM   #23 (permalink)
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OSHA states that the anchor point (whatever you tie off to) must have a capacity of at least 5000 pounds. That is based on the load on the anchor caused by a person falling six feet before being restrained by the lanyard. An engineer can design another system based on one's weight and free fall distance. If using a static line, the anchor point rating may need to be higher.

During a fall, a harness can only exert a certain amount of force on the body -I can't remember what the # is- without inflicting internal damage. A person tying off to a ladder while working does no good. If you are climbing a ladder over 24 feet (it differs between vertical or inclined), you must use a ladder climbing safety device or a retractable lanyard that is anchored to something other than the ladder. When in a manlift or scissor lift, you tie off to the anchor point in the basket to prevent falling if getting ejected from the basket.

That's all I can remember off the top of my head--
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Old 08-10-2005, 09:28 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emahn
OSHA states that the anchor point (whatever you tie off to) must have a capacity of at least 5000 pounds. That is based on the load on the anchor caused by a person falling six feet before being restrained by the lanyard. An engineer can design another system based on one's weight and free fall distance. If using a static line, the anchor point rating may need to be higher.

During a fall, a harness can only exert a certain amount of force on the body -I can't remember what the # is- without inflicting internal damage.
those are ANSI standards that OSHA incorporated by reference

i'm just going to pull out my CFR tomorrow because not being able to remember the standards is driving me nuts
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Old 08-11-2005, 07:06 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Osha law is 6 feet.
Anything else is a company policy, unles of course there are other dangers nearby. I tie off for a living, and have had many, many classes on it.
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