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Old 08-24-2008, 08:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Floor Epoxy gurus...how did I mess up?

Problem: fluid filled blisters forming under the epoxy after it set.

Product: A and B mix type epoxy.
Floor prior to application: sealed and waxed concrete.
YES I KNOW that this floor starting point is difficult to do properly, however, I"m not conviced that what I'm seeing is due to the original floor.

Procedure:
Wax floor stripper 100% concentration applied directly to floor. Mopped twice w/ fresh water.
75% Muratic acid for 10-15 minutes, applied w/ spray bottle.
Mopped w/ fresh water twice.
Allowed to dry 48 hrs...it had the frosty appearance.
Painted on expoxy.
No bubbles for 2 weeks then BAM quarter size fluid filled blisters.

What happened?
Can anything be done at this point or just wait and see?
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Last edited by NoJoke; 08-24-2008 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 08-24-2008, 08:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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it's either water or air, or a combination of the two that's causing the blistering.

are they filled w/ water?

did you follow the directions on the can, sir?
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Old 08-24-2008, 08:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by trampas View Post
it's either water or air, or a combination of the two that's causing the blistering.

are they filled w/ water?

did you follow the directions on the can, sir?
Yes, kinda. I was screwed before I started cuz a sealed floor is less than ideal. I'm wondering if the acid wasn't completely neutralized and continued to gas....however, the bubbles are 100% water. Weird. And they didn't apprear until 2 weeks later.
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Old 08-24-2008, 08:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NoJoke View Post
Yes, kinda. I was screwed before I started cuz a sealed floor is less than ideal. I'm wondering if the acid wasn't completely neutralized and continued to gas....however, the bubbles are 100% water. Weird. And they didn't apprear until 2 weeks later.

I see it all the time it is moisture coming up through the floor and the hydrostatic preasure is causing the blisters full of water. There is probably no vapor barrier under the slab and you had a change in weather recently. Probly got a few degress hotter, Or the epoxy cured and stopped breathing. Before you put down any coating you should tape down a peice of clear plastic and see if it gets condensation on the slab side of it. there are coatings that will cure your issue but probly not worth the $ for a garage floor. look up Ashford Formula

I coated some bathrooms floors near lake Mead in Nevada, 1/4 mile or more from the water. The floors passed moisture tests done with meters but the stuff blistered really bad. After several attemps to fix it we removed all the coating and took some time to study the problem. Eventually we found that a temp or humidity change would case moisture to wick to the surface of the ground, concrete, dirt everything. It does not seem like it but this causes a lot of hydrostaic preasure which will remove coatings, tile and other floorings.

Wayne
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I see it all the time it is moisture coming up through the floor and the hydrostatic preasure is causing the blisters full of water. There is probably no vapor barrier under the slab and you had a change in weather recently. Probly got a few degress hotter, Or the epoxy cured and stopped breathing. Before you put down any coating you should tape down a peice of clear plastic and see if it gets condensation on the slab side of it. there are coatings that will cure your issue but probly not worth the $ for a garage floor. look up Ashford Formula

I coated some bathrooms floors near lake Mead in Nevada, 1/4 mile or more from the water. The floors passed moisture tests done with meters but the stuff blistered really bad. After several attemps to fix it we removed all the coating and took some time to study the problem. Eventually we found that a temp or humidity change would case moisture to wick to the surface of the ground, concrete, dirt everything. It does not seem like it but this causes a lot of hydrostaic preasure which will remove coatings, tile and other floorings.

Wayne
It's been both HOT and humid. Damn.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
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It's been both HOT and humid. Damn.
don't be silly.

just ask Gary. it's 77* every day year 'round, in San Diego.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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just ask Gary. it's 77* every day year 'round, in San Diego.
Then someone needs to tell him to shut off his A/C.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJoke View Post
Problem: fluid filled blisters forming under the epoxy after it set.

Product: A and B mix type epoxy.
Floor prior to application: sealed and waxed concrete.
YES I KNOW that this floor starting point is difficult to do properly, however, I"m not conviced that what I'm seeing is due to the original floor.

Procedure:
Wax floor stripper 100% concentration applied directly to floor. Mopped twice w/ fresh water.
75% Muratic acid for 10-15 minutes, applied w/ spray bottle.
Mopped w/ fresh water twice.
Allowed to dry 48 hrs...it had the frosty appearance.
Painted on expoxy.
No bubbles for 2 weeks then BAM quarter size fluid filled blisters.

What happened?
Can anything be done at this point or just wait and see?
Problem #1, way inadequate prep. I used 6 gallons of purple power, 2 boxes of tsp, acid, and 13 hours pressure washing my floor. With sealed and waxed concrete, it most likely needs to be ground to be done right.

Problem #2. Inadequate dry time. Tape a piece of plastic to the floor for 24 hours, if it has moisture trapped under it, it's too wet. I let mine dry for over a week.

Garagejournal.com will have some more answers for you, they have a flooring section, with several professionals. Just ignore the "only the professional expensive epoxy is best" crap. I've had box store valspar on mine for 6 years with no trouble.
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Old 08-25-2008, 05:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Concrete is a big, hard sponge. In Florida, twenty four hours wouldn't be nearly long enough.

I don't even tell customers to bother with the taped plastic. I tell them to throw a rubber backed floor mat out of their car on the floor. Pick it up every morning to see if the rubber side is wet. About two days after it comes up dry is when I *might* start thinking about painting it.

Of course, when people tell me they want to paint a concrete floor, I usually run away screaming. Nobody does enough prep work. (You tried to, but apparently someone forgot to mention that concrete takes a long time to be dry enough.) Even the ones who acted like they were going to do it made me suspicious.

I always said, "Let's agree to remain friends and you give up this crazy idea. Otherwise, we're going to be having the conversation in a month where you're mad and asking for money back and I'm trying to remind you of all the things we talked about that you needed to do before you started rolling out paint..."
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Old 08-25-2008, 05:32 AM   #10 (permalink)
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then BAM quarter size fluid filled blisters.
does it burn when you pee
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Old 08-25-2008, 05:54 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJoke View Post
Problem: fluid filled blisters forming under the epoxy after it set.

Product: A and B mix type epoxy.
Floor prior to application: sealed and waxed concrete.
YES I KNOW that this floor starting point is difficult to do properly, however, I"m not conviced that what I'm seeing is due to the original floor.

Procedure:
Wax floor stripper 100% concentration applied directly to floor. Mopped twice w/ fresh water.
75% Muratic acid for 10-15 minutes, applied w/ spray bottle.
Mopped w/ fresh water twice.
Allowed to dry 48 hrs...it had the frosty appearance.
Painted on expoxy.
No bubbles for 2 weeks then BAM quarter size fluid filled blisters.

What happened?
Can anything be done at this point or just wait and see?
I always used a neutralizer (baking soda) to shut the acid off...What type of floor epoxy did you buy?
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Old 08-25-2008, 07:10 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I always used a neutralizer (baking soda) to shut the acid off...What type of floor epoxy did you buy?
Rustoleum Premium Epoxy Coating (the 2 can/ two part mix stuff) clearcoat....also known and "the Home Depot" stuff.

Thanks for all the info.

The job is only 1/2 done (I have more concrete to do) so I'll do more hard labor to see if I can control this.

As far as the currently blistering area; should I leave it and hope or poke the blisters and let the puss out?
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:33 PM   #13 (permalink)
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"Let's agree to remain friends and you give up this crazy idea."



Quote:
Otherwise, we're going to be having the conversation in a month where you're mad and asking for money back and I'm trying to remind you of all the things we talked about that you needed to do before you started rolling out paint..."
i run from some clients. i see you do also.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:39 PM   #14 (permalink)
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i run from some clients. i see you do also.
some times the best job for you is the one you didn't take.

Wayne
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John Currie/Gerald Lee 1st place EMC
Derek West for 4 pole positions in 2012
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Old 08-25-2008, 03:08 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I did the rubber mat on the floor test. It took my garage a WEEK to dry with a fan on 24/7 with the dehumidifier on also. I was getting about a gallon a day out of the garage. You can tell when it's good and dry cause you won't get anything in the dehumidifier anymore.
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Old 08-25-2008, 03:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
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