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Old 10-10-2007, 09:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
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hummer portals

What are the specs for the helical hummer portal boxes? I'm curious what gear sizes the hummers use eg. width, diameter, tooth # ect. It seems like they are pretty small gears to handle the 520 ft/lb and 37 inch tires on the 05 alpha. I've looked around for this information and haven't been able to turn anything up. Thanks everyone.
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Old 10-10-2007, 07:30 PM   #2 (permalink)
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X2 any pics?
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:16 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I don't have the specs on hand, but I can tell you they are pretty bulletproof -- I have never heard of anyone exploding them. I have wheeled very hard for over 145k in my H1, and done nothing but change the gear oil in the portals periodically -- no problems. During that same time frame I have grenaded a t-case, toasted two transmissions, broken about a dozen half-shafts and CV joints, peeled the tubing on a rear prop shaft in half, broken two alloy wheels and bent a few steel ones. The geared hubs never flinched, though, beyond leaking a little at the seals.

In a couple of rare instances reported where a spindle broke loose due to a defect in materials, causing a lost wheel/tire on the highway. (read: very bad)
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Cut-away picture of portal hub that I took last summer in South Bend attached - this one has the straight cut gears rather than the helicals -- reportedly the helicals are "quieter" without a significant loss of strength:
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Old 10-16-2007, 02:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks, that's a pretty sweet pic. I guess I'm not so worried about breaking the portals. I've heard they're pretty bullet-proof and wanted to know why. The amount of stress that they can handle is impressive. I'm interested in doing a project that will have forces similar to what the portals experience and the specifications would give me a good baseline to work off of.

I did find an interesting website in the meantime that does have some specs on their portals. Here it is.


http://www.marks4wd.com/products/gea...%20History.htm
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:14 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Wow, very cool custom portals there...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ark View Post
Thanks, that's a pretty sweet pic. I guess I'm not so worried about breaking the portals. I've heard they're pretty bullet-proof and wanted to know why. The amount of stress that they can handle is impressive. I'm interested in doing a project that will have forces similar to what the portals experience and the specifications would give me a good baseline to work off of.

I did find an interesting website in the meantime that does have some specs on their portals. Here it is.


http://www.marks4wd.com/products/gea...%20History.htm
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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HMMWV A2 Upper Gear Data Courtesy of FLIS

MATERIAL - STEEL COMP 8620 OVERALL
MATERIAL DOCUMENT AND CLASSIFICATION - ASTM A322 ASSN STD SINGLE MATERIAL RESPONSE OVERALL
TEETH QUANTITY - 13
PRESSURE ANGLE - 25.0000 DEGREES
PRECISION CLASSIFICATION - QUALITY NUMBER 6
STYLE DESIGNATOR - 4 PROTRUDING HUBS
PITCH DIAMETER - 2.6000 INCHES NOMINAL
NOMINAL OUTSIDE DIAMETER - 3.095 INCHES
FACE NOMINAL WIDTH - 1.880 INCHES
NOMINAL DISTANCE BETWEEN BODY FACE AND PROTRUDING HUB END - 0.930 INCHES BOTH ENDS
BORE STYLE - 6 INVOLUTE SPLINE BOTH ENDS, 14 W/COUNTERBORE COUNTERBORE, FIRST END, 14 W/COUNTERBORE COUNTER BORE, SECOND END
BORE NOMINAL DIAMETER - 1.4010 INCHES BOTH ENDS
SPLINE QUANTITY - 32 BOTH ENDS
SPLINE PITCH DIAMETER - 1.3333 INCHES NOMINAL BOTH ENDS
COUNTERBORE NOMINAL DEPTH - 0.930 INCHES COUNTERBORE, FIRST END, 0.390 INCHES COUNTER BORE, SECOND END
COUNTERBORE NOMINAL DIAMETER - 1.487 INCHES BOTH ENDS
HUB STYLE DESIGNATOR - 4A 1 STEP BOTH ENDS
END NOMINAL LENGTH - 0.870 INCHES BOTH ENDS
END NOMINAL DIAMETER - 2.000 INCHES BOTH ENDS
FIRST STEP NOMINAL LENGTH - 0.060 INCHES BOTH ENDS
FIRST STEP NOMINAL DIAMETER - 2.500 INCHES BOTH ENDS
BODY STYLE - 1 PLAIN, SOLID
III END ITEM IDENTIFICATION - TRUCK, VEHICLE, SYSTEM, 1 1/4-TON (HMMWV)

Lower Gear Data

MATERIAL - STEEL COMP 4320 BODY
MATERIAL DOCUMENT AND CLASSIFICATION - ASTM A322 COMP 432 ASSN STD SINGLE MATERIAL RESPONSE BODY
TEETH QUANTITY - 25
PRESSURE ANGLE - 25.0000 DEGREES
STYLE DESIGNATOR - 6 FLUSH HUBS
PITCH DIAMETER - 5.0000 INCHES NOMINAL
NOMINAL OUTSIDE DIAMETER - 5.395 INCHES
FACE NOMINAL WIDTH - 1.736 INCHES
BORE STYLE - 6 INVOLUTE SPLINE BOTH ENDS
BORE NOMINAL DIAMETER - 1.984 INCHES BOTH ENDS
SPLINE QUANTITY - 46 BOTH ENDS
SPLINE PITCH DIAMETER - 1.9167 INCHES NOMINAL BOTH ENDS
HUB STYLE DESIGNATOR - 1 PLAIN BOTH ENDS
HUB NOMINAL DIAMETER - 2.500 INCHES BOTH ENDS
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
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helical gears are stronger not weaker. The cut pattern creates more contact area on each gear. Thats why ring and pinion gears in solid axels are cut that way.

Last edited by Jeepocabra; 11-12-2007 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:08 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Helicals providing more surface area in a Ring and Pinion is a no brainer, due to the perpendicular arrangement of the gears... more to mesh. Are you positive the same holds true in a configuration like this where the gears are side by side? I would have expected a simple straight cut gear to be stronger.
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:30 AM   #10 (permalink)
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It's my understanding that the helical gears themselves are indeed stronger than the straight cut gears, even in a side by side arrangement. However, the problem with helical gears comes from the fact that they cause a side loading when under torque. This isn't much of a problem in normal gear boxes but in portals, there is also side loading created from the vehicle being off-camber. Depending on trail conditions and use of throttle, these two forces could potentially combine causing a huge amount of stress on the portal housing.
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Hey hmcoleap, how do I post a pic? Do I have to put it up somewhere else on the internet and link to it or can I get pirate to host it on their server?

Here you go
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Last edited by Bebe; 11-14-2007 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:39 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Old 11-14-2007, 02:49 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Side loading on the gears wont be a problem if your timkin bearings are in good shape. If you jack up one tire, grab it top and bottom and try to move it. It should not be loose if it is, you got problems
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Old 11-15-2007, 01:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I wasn't really talking about a side loading on the gears. It's more of a problem with side loading on the portal housing itself. The gears transfer the loading that they create through the bearings and into the housing. This housing already has a loading just from the weight of the vehicle on side-hills since it is off-center from the axle. The portal box has to handle both of these loadings. Straight cut gears wouldn't add this secondary side loading to the box like helical gears do.
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Old 03-14-2008, 02:18 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Hey guys I know this is an old thread but has anyone got ideas where I can get a set of dropboxes from, I'm not bothered where it is as I'll need to get them shipped to the UK anyway.

Cheers
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Old 03-14-2008, 02:21 PM   #16 (permalink)
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There aren't any cheap ones floating around anymore... Scot at http://www.sax-express.com can probably get you a set.
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:05 PM   #17 (permalink)
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we may have a few left over scrap sets in our back pile. we used them for testing against our new boxes so they would probably need rebuilt. contact russ@portal-tek.com. he will know if they are still there
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Old 03-23-2008, 04:02 AM   #18 (permalink)
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in my opinion helical gears are not stronger.... yes each tooth is longer because its on an angle, but, by the nature of how they turn, the whole width of the tooth is not in contact, it rolls across the width...

straight cut roll but the whole width is in contact...

on top of that you have the side loading characteristics...

i looking at the 2 pics i would much prefer the straight cut gears... but both would probably be strong as f......

serg
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:52 AM   #19 (permalink)
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The helical gears come with the Alpha. They definitely are less noisy. During braking less growling and rocking.
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Old 03-23-2008, 09:42 AM   #20 (permalink)
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the rocking puts me to sleep at stop lights.
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Old 04-01-2008, 12:51 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I'm researching parts for this project and I'm considering using Hummer portals. I got interested in the Hummer parts after talking to Brad Falin, who races a Hummer-based Class 1 vehicle. He also built and prepped a few of the stock-full desert racing Hummers back when they were racing those too. He told me that parts availability wasn't a problem and that there were a lot of used parts around. He said we should be able to get four portal boxes, CV's and both diffs for around $1000 (used). I didn't really look int it much further than that, but the other day I was talking to Tech-Tim about it and he told me that the used parts market was dying-up. He also said that the Miltiary was going to stop supplying the civilian market with complete surplus parts because the portal boxes had been deemed unsafe or something like that. I started wondering whether Brad's information might be a little outdated, or whether he might be finding better deals than the average bear.

So I spent a few hours this morning looking into the availability and pricing of these parts and it's not looking good. Kascar's prices were outrageous. Scott at www.sax-express.com told me that used portal boxes are hit-and-miss. He can get the helical-cut Alpha portals for about $700-800 each (new, complete), which seemed reasonable but he doesn't expect the supply to continue seeing as they only made those models for one year. He said the straight-cut portal hubs run about $1300 each (new, complete).

It would be rad to use Hummer portals, but don't want to design the whole front-end of a vehicle around parts that might be hard for people to find, or too expensive to purchase in the future.

Would appreciate any input that will help me make a decision about whether or not to go this route.
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Old 04-01-2008, 03:47 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Are you building a racer or a crawler?
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:30 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Something about as in-between the two as possible. Still early in the design phase, but you can read about the project here.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:22 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Yeah, it's old, but since it's been drug back up I'll jump on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uninformed View Post
in my opinion helical gears are not stronger.... yes each tooth is longer because its on an angle, but, by the nature of how they turn, the whole width of the tooth is not in contact, it rolls across the width...

straight cut roll but the whole width is in contact...
serg
I've heard the strength argument both way. Some will say that with a helical gear, it is true that the whole of any one tooth is not in contact, however due to the helix, there there is tooth contact at all times with a helical cut gear than with a straight cut gear. Hmmm we need a gear engineer to chime in on this.... where 's Bongard when we need him?

Of course we need to ask that if this was only offered 1 year, was it due to a strength issue or a cost cutting issue?
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:32 AM   #25 (permalink)
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the links you posted are interesting -- very cool build. As far as the geared hubs -- I don't imagine you'll need to be replacing them (maybe some components?) so if you had 6 that should last you. They are tough as shiite (cast steel) and I've never (though I haven't done a search on the hml yet) heard of a well maintained one having issues. Just gotta find out how long AMG's humvee contract is and that's at least how long they'll be making them.
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