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Old 04-06-2009, 12:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Who wiil buy Hummer

I read a rumor on allpar.com/ forum that said the new GM Hummer owner Will be sold to the South African's, if this is true they are sure to flood the Military market with Hummers, as well as other markets ! This is only a Rumor at this Time.

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Old 04-06-2009, 12:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What does "fluid the military market" mean? Do you mean flood the market? You do realize that the current Hummer line has absolutely nothing to do with AM General's HMMWV, don't you? The H1 was based on the HMMWV, built by AM General, marketed under contract by GM and is no longer available, the H2 and H3 designs are all GM.
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:20 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Yes flwenil it should be flood, thanks and this is GM Hummers, and as i said above two times this is a rumor, and ref; it to allpar.com/forum ? now i have live in the REP of South Africa 5 years in the past,and if this rumor is true, then its a good thing For The GM hummer!

NOTE: The South Africa Govt. Make much better road wheel fighting vehicles than we do hear in USA,just give them a Google

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Old 04-07-2009, 10:36 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwenil View Post
What does "fluid the military market" mean? Do you mean flood the market? You do realize that the current Hummer line has absolutely nothing to do with AM General's HMMWV, don't you? The H1 was based on the HMMWV, built by AM General, marketed under contract by GM and is no longer available, the H2 and H3 designs are all GM.
H2 was a AM General / GM combined effort and the H2 is built by AM General, not GM. AM General gained a lot of experience with more modern/automated assembly line production from building the H2, which would help them build other vehicles in the future.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I was thinking they only built the H1, but it appears you are correct. I doubt that the H1 or HMMWV design is for sale with the Hummer brand as AMG general has retained the rights to them. I don't think any self respecting military on the planet is going to be interested in a H2 or H3 military vehicle so I seriously doubt anything "Hummer" will flood the military market. The H2 and H3 are too expensive for what they are.

In my opinion, the Hummer name is probably not going to be successful if marketed outside the US and with the current economy, I seriously doubt anyone is going to try to market it. There really isn't much that can be taken and reused from the Hummer line that isn't used in various other pickups and SUVs and there is certainly nothing tactical about them. Gm has been trying to sell that contract for a few years now and no one is biting because it would be like buying the contract for Dodo bird calls. It's product without a market.
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Old 04-08-2009, 09:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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http://www.reuters.com/article/bonds...54525020090408

Ironically enough that was the price that Ira Rennert paid for AM General when LTV Aerospace went under in the early 90's.

If the rumor is true on how much GM paid AM General paid for Hummer(tm) AMG "could" buy it back for a fraction of what they sold it for.

In theory.
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Old 04-12-2009, 12:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I would guess know one has google the South African arms industry,if you do , you will see they make better road wheel fighting vehicle than AM general does, the SA's, will most likely put a Jeep type power train with very large axles on it, then they Will add packages for it, like ante land mine package, water fording package, up armor package, weapons package , and all will be made to go on and off quickly .

The SA's may only want the GM Hummer tops and some tooling for military and civilian sells at half the GM price for all i know . also the US Military are now looking for a replacement for Hummers, so it could be all over for AM General Hummers ,if they cant get the New Govt contract?
also you don't want the red Chinese to buy the hummer do you?

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Old 04-12-2009, 01:45 PM   #8 (permalink)
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It wouldn't matter if the Chinese did buy Hummer. They have already built their own HMMWVs, with the assistance of AM General:



Besides, the HMMWV is being discontinued so it's sort of like the Iranians capturing an M35 and building their own. It's all old technology that they probably already have anyway.

And I wouldn't say South Africa builds a better vehicle since the theaters are vastly different. Many of the vehicles they have built are modified Land Rover and similar European designs. The Mamba looks a bit like a Land Rover but has Unimog running gear. A lot of South African vehicles are the old mine resistant designs that look more like a lifted truck to Americans but our early MRAP designs copy a lot of design cues from them but are now moving on to more technical designs.

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Old 04-13-2009, 12:15 AM   #9 (permalink)
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The HMMWV supply contract extends until 2020 or so, so I don't see the HMMWV disappearing anytime soon.

All the replacements that people have been talking about are MRAPs that run 250-750,000$ a unit. Considering a base HMMWV is $35,000, an Uparmored model running $125,000, and a armored version with a crows turret running $250,000. There are better products for different applications [eg. The new generation mutt the Marines had contracted that can be stored on the Osprey].

In the end it'll be economics. Come out with a HMMWV killer that beats the originals price and you'll see a shift that way. Until then, every magazine can blab on about how their $500,000 armored truck can beat a HMMWV and at the end of the day you'll see people deciding it may be better to have 10 decently equipped hmmwv's vs one super truck.
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Old 04-13-2009, 06:38 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Actually the MRAPs are a separate program. True, they replaced the HMMWVs in Iraq, but mainly because the HMMWVs were being used in a way that they were never intended. The amount of armor that was being added to them was way more weight than the HMMWV was ever designed to deal with and it was killing the engines suspension and drivetrain. So the MRAPs came online as a more powerful, heavier and more IED resistant vehicle to handle patrols in Iraq. The HMMWV is still capable of doing the job it was intended to do but the situation in Iraq pushed it beyond it's limits. The replacements for the HMMWV that have been submitted for testing so far are mostly more advanced versions of the HMMWV. A few are armored but most I have seen are not and are just different takes on the same theme. It's also correct to say that it will come down to economics but also of the mission the vehicle is designed for. It would require a major change in thinking in the DoD to convert all light vehicles over to armored ones or something along the lines of an MRAP. I doubt it will happen especially since the LAV-150 is an ideal replacement for the HMMWV if the DoD decides they need an armored replacement and we already have many of those plus the HMMWV needs to be a certain size and lightweight (relative) in order to be air transportable and fit in the particular logistics niche it fills. The reputation the HMMWV gained in public opinion during the Gulf War has been destroyed by it's shortcomings in the Iraq War. Not necessarily the HMMWVs fault but public opinion definitely shifted when the HMMWV turned out to not be the "do anything" vehicle it was seen to be. This does have an impact on the decisions the DoD, US Army Tank and Automotive Command and others make to award contracts to certain designs. I think when it comes to "10 decently equipped HMMWVs vs one super truck", when it's your son or daughter in said vehicle whichever gives them the best survivability is the one you want.

In my opinion, the replacement for the HMMWV will be a bit heavier duty, with less bells and whistles but otherwise basically the same. The information I have states the current contract ends in 2009 but I believe the rebuild program contract extends for quite a while after that. Either way, I think we will see the HMMWV replacement a lot sooner than 2020 and the HMMWV will begin to be phased out around it's 30 year anniversary in 2011 which is typical for the US military. Testing began for several models at Aberdeen in 2006 for the FTTS program so that would fall in about right. If none of the models submitted pass the tests or a contract cannot be reached then the HMMWV may live a bit longer but it's unlikely in my opinion.
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Old 04-15-2009, 01:37 PM   #11 (permalink)
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What people seem to misunderstand the most is that the HMMWV was orginally designed to be a vehicle to move personel over unpaved/uninhabited distances quickly. It was not designed for urban war fair.
The MRAP was designed for urban warfare. It cannot replace the HMMWV as it does not have the offroad capability the HMMWV offers.
Also AM General already is designing the next generation HMMWV already. And quiet frankly while it is more capable than the original and today's HMMWV. Yes the military HMMWV has evloved over the years. So yes the HMMWV will be around till 2020.
It is not an MRAP and the MRAP is not replacing the HMMWV as it is a different animal.
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:15 AM   #12 (permalink)
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AMG is designing a new version of the HMMWV but the contract has not yet been awarded so there's no telling what the replacement will look like.
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:19 PM   #13 (permalink)
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A LOT of the military's projects have been cancelled. The replacement to the hummer is one of the vehicles that may get altered. The the heavier vehicles with a high overhead cost to a finite role (stealth, artillary, etc), or are poor mpg per ton are getting the axe or are being redesigned to be more cost effective. Example the 30ton multi role platform just nuked because it didnt make financial sense to have a 30 ton vehicle doing what the hummer is doing. The Hummer will survive longer now because it has such a larger combat role

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