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Old 06-25-2009, 08:16 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Hummer asks for input from owners

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The National HUMMER Club members:

Thank you for allowing us to participate in the 2009 TNHC Badlands Invasion. It was a privilege to spend the day with so many people who, like myself, view HUMMER vehicles as a way of life, not just a transportation appliance to get from point A to point B. As HUMMER moves forward into the future as a separate company, it is our intention to renew our relationship and support of the Club, members and activities.

As many of you expressed to me during the day in Attica, I know that there are still a number of questions and concerns many of you have about the future of HUMMER and the availability of parts and service for your vehicles. Rest assured that as the brand transitions from being one of eight General Motor's brands to a new, private automotive company, we will strive to make the transition as seamless as possible to you and the other loyal HUMMER owners around the globe.

Currently, we are in the complicated process of completing the sale of the brand, which we expect to be finalized by the end of September. Please do not hesitate to contact me, either by phone or email at anytime with any questions you may have about the sale process. Furthermore, as we are developing the future model year vehicles, we would appreciate your thoughts about how we can make our current generation models better and what traits and features you would like to see in future models.

I look forward to hearing from you and spending more time on the trail with you at future events.

Cheers,

Nick Richards
HUMMER Communications Manager
Email: Nick.Richards@gm.com
Phone: 313-665-9292
Cell: 313-720-9541
Twitter: HummerNick
I sent him a note and received this response

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Bebe:

Thanks for the support. I know after spending time on the trail with you that you are a strong advocate of the brand and the H3. As someone who regularly uses their truck in the manner for which it was designed, I'd love to get your thoughts on how we can improve the H3, as well as what you'd like to see in future models. We're currently working on the program plans that were under way with GM and determining how they should be modified to support the future direction of the brand, so any comments you have about a potential future H4 would be very much welcomed.

I'll also be sure to give your contact information to the team putting together the formal research project so that we can include your thoughts and experience.

Thanks again for being such a passionate supporter of the brand and I look forward to seeing you on the trail again soon.

Cheers,

Nick Richards
HUMMER Communications Manager
Phone: 313-665-9292
Cell: 313-720-9541
Twitter: HummerNick

I have so many ideas I don't even know where to start. But my ideas will always center around the hard core rock crawling trails, and the mods that will get an H3 through them.

To compete with Jeep doesn't necessarily mean we have to go with a straight axle in the front. You can beef up the front end to make it much better.

I think between 4digr's D44 swap (which is not only stronger but allows for lower gear ratios) and my spring over, that the H3 would be the rig of choice.

The biggest problem would be the size, which brings us to the H4, that is the rig that will compete with Jeep. They have to get it right, and not skimp on the off road ability. I'd rather have neoprene covered seats than all the fancy interior.

Get a reputation for a bullet proof drive train and you'll win all markets (Jeep, Land Rover and Toyota).

What do you all think about the future of Hummer, and what would you like to see in future models?
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:54 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm a Jeep guy to the bone but feel that if Toyota and Hummer,etc. build better off road vehicles it will push every company in the market to do better.Therefore i hope that they build a hardcore vehicle so everyone else will step up.Does that make sense?
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:08 AM   #3 (permalink)
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It does!

Do you have any specifics on what you would like to see?

Are there any mistakes Toyota or Jeep have made that Hummer should not try or repeat?
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Old 06-25-2009, 11:42 AM   #4 (permalink)
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To start simple...whatever they end up making (if anything) should be available in a stripped down version for those who want to mod or just plain don't want all the bells and whistles (plus it will lighten the load -- every little bit helps).

I know it's asking a lot for a committee to show signs of common sense (wasn't a camel a horse designed by a committee?) but maybe they'll actually take a look at what's been breaking in the past few years and...dare I say...beef up that stuff? Just take a look underneath and get rid of anything that hangs down lower than it needs to (Bebe addressed much of this with her rear conversion).

rb
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:58 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I know it's asking a lot for a committee to show signs of common sense

rb
True.

However, I think in the past many of these groups have had less real world experience wheeling and daily use.

But now they won't have the GM Bean Counters putting in Aluminum center sections instead of CI to save 80 bucks (which probably cost them half a mil in warranty repairs)

I'm excited...I can't wait
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Old 06-25-2009, 05:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm a Jeep guy to the bone but feel that if Toyota and Hummer,etc. build better off road vehicles it will push every company in the market to do better.Therefore i hope that they build a hardcore vehicle so everyone else will step up.Does that make sense?
Damn someone on here who understands why competition is important.
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:14 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Manual windows and lock, manual transmission, Direct injection diesel, beefier torque converter in auto trans, go upto 35" tire from factory (will fit h3 currently from factory), make it affordable base MSRP 19999? Hell make ac an option, and cruise control like on the previous generation of Wrangler. Right Hand Drive for the utilities, and rural postal carriers, let everyday people take them out and use them like ford did with focus where it gave 100 out to people to drive and used them as test mules. Basically go back to the quality we had when we were delivering before they were trying to squeeze the life out of the brand!
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Old 06-26-2009, 11:38 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Part time transfer case for 2wd mode.
With less mass turning in 2wd "Fuel economy will improve"not to mention less wear and tear on front end parts.

Eliminate slip yokes on trans and transfer case.

It will also make it easier to do a straight axle conversion
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Old 06-29-2009, 02:04 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I agree that a true "base model" would be awesome. A radio, a/c, manual everything. I'm pretty tired of all the electronic crap that adds switches, relays, and other weak links. I hear more and more people asking for a 70's version of a vehicle. Put a small diesel in to keep in simple, but efficient. If I want a truck or a rig, thats what I get. If I wanted a lux or Caddy, I'll look elsewhere.
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Old 06-29-2009, 02:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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create a short wheel base convertible model like the old lancruisers, nissan patrols and the old jeeps were.

make the body lines simple clean and body parts cheap tough and easy to replace. hood, fenders, grille cheap, bolt and go.



Offer a manual tranny or two. a truck version with a 5.+:1 first gear and maybe a nv3550 knock off for the street crowd.

small diesels with turbos and manual trannies that whip down the roads getting 30+ mpg in trucks that have full float dana 44's in the rear and [B]straight axle in the front[/B]. all designed without every option and made however you want with the ability of the end user to modify things if necessary

direct injection diesel and a manual transmission will someone please bring this to market. And a good I6 put a dana 44 with manual hubs in the front. Go to south america and take some notes.

seriously consider going back to a gear driven case and fixed yokes for the crowd that wants simple and functional.

Simplify the wiring harnesses make the engine a drop in stand alone unit. attach the computer, harness and engine all together with a minimal number of wires feeding back to the dash and the vehicle. likewise keep the tranny as a stand alone. that way if someone wants to swap manual to auto or the other way around they can.

Make is a durable simple platform like the wrangler and earlier cjs and scouts were. the market place needs less bells and whistles and more simplicity, durability and utility right now.

put a v belt on the alternator and offer the option of a York or some equivilent cheap AC compressor to be used as a air compressor.

must be able to clear 35's



Think Utility and simple utility and simple utility and simple. i like my steel dash i can cut holes and install mechanical gauges when the electric pieces of crap die. try that on a new POS vehicle. I'd pay 20k for a solid platform rig is someone would just make something. KISS and offer the same body for 10 years. I put more tha 20k worth of labor in each time changing axles, motors and cleaning up the widring harness getting rid of all the switches and crap that gauruntee a short somewhere further down the road.
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
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bring back the H1's with the Alpha for those who want a capable Duramax 4x4 without the garbage IFS found in the 2500/3500HD trucks

but that would make too much sense
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Old 06-29-2009, 07:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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bring back the H1's with the Alpha for those who want a capable Duramax 4x4 without the garbage IFS found in the 2500/3500HD trucks

but that would make too much sense
I'm not looking to Hummer for a truck. I want a rig. That doesn't mean I'd be upset if they reintroduced the H1, I just don't think it'd be a good business move. They have to sell at too high a price, and people expect them to be the Cadilac of the off-road world.
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Old 06-29-2009, 07:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It does!

Do you have any specifics on what you would like to see?

Are there any mistakes Toyota or Jeep have made that Hummer should not try or repeat?
I think if Hummer looked to a design such as the Jeep "Lower 40" concept-- minimal to no lift-- wide open fenders with huge clearance-- low, low, low-- big tires and a low profile cab. Add in a modern but retro look like the FJCruiser and it would do well. I think a solid front and rear axle is important... but all independent may also sell although not to hard-core wheelers.
I think front IFS on the FJCruiser was a big mistake.
Jeep is just lacking in quality and I don't see that changing anytime soon. But a Jeep is the best wheeler straight off of the dealer's lot. That should be where the bar is set as far as wheeling performance stock goes.

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Old 06-30-2009, 08:06 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I think if Hummer looked to a design such as the Jeep "Lower 40" concept-- minimal to no lift-- wide open fenders with huge clearance-- low, low, low-- big tires and a low profile cab. Add in a modern but retro look like the FJCruiser and it would do well. I think a solid front and rear axle is important... but all independent may also sell although not to hard-core wheelers.
What you've described is the Hx Full independent, low with decent clearance. 35's will fit off the shelf like the H3.

This just in from Google Alerts!

Autoblogs H3T vs Jeep Rubicon report

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Old 06-30-2009, 11:00 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The whole reason the H1 was full IS was for clearance reasons, you can make a more compact profile for a light military truck with an IS suspension.

The H1's IS suspension is pretty beefy, the control arms are 30+ lbs each unlike those you find on pickups.

I know a lot of people don't like IS, but I do, its a lot of engineering work to do a custom IS lift/setup vs a solid axle, there's advantages and disadvantages to both.
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Old 06-30-2009, 11:52 AM   #16 (permalink)
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But a Jeep is the best wheeler straight off of the dealer's lot. That should be where the bar is set as far as wheeling performance stock goes.
from bebe link, sorry I thought it was funny

So, why would you buy the Jeep? You want something that will go anywhere, that will do it simply, and that will be easy to fix. You might want to rock crawl and that's where the two-door Wrangler comes in. For some, you want something that doesn't say Hummer on it. But you'd be mistaken if you're buying a Jeep because you think it's better out of the box than the Hummer.
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Old 06-30-2009, 05:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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What you've described is the Hx Full independent, low with decent clearance. 35's will fit off the shelf like the H3.

This just in from Google Alerts!

Autoblogs H3T vs Jeep Rubicon report
35's? Maybe you should go look at the lower 40.
I am talking about a rig built to run a big tire from the factory. Geared and with brakes to match and with the strength to hold up-- that would be something I would buy. 35's? Do I own an H3? There is a reason for that.
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Old 06-30-2009, 07:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
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it should come with 35's and take up to at least 38's without mods.
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Old 07-01-2009, 05:51 AM   #19 (permalink)
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You are aware that this does need to meet goverment safety standards as a motor vehicle. That means that in crash testing and rollover testing it needs to score decent or nobody will buy them as they will be labled a death trap. The H3 and H3T will both accomodate 35" tires from the factory without a lift, can any other vehicle on the market do that in stock form? As far as an easy to remove door like the Wrangler, you are obviously not an H3 owner because it is easier then a Jeep door to remove ( one bolt and a quick connect for the wiring). We have to remember that this is marketed to us as well as the rest of the world. How many Jeep owners take their rig from the lot to the Rubicon with no modifications? A Rubicon comes from the factory with 32" tires and that is the stco tire on the H3. This truck will have to have side air bags, three point seat belts, crumple zones, all of the goverment mandated safety crap to keep us from hurting ourselves. Some of the things requested here might as well be flux capacitors!
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Old 07-01-2009, 12:28 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Old 07-01-2009, 09:44 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Beeb, I have never had to disagree with you before but having wheeled many IFS vehicles (currently owning an H2 & H3) I can honestly say that a SFA can go in places that a IFS vehicle can not. There is the Upper-V at Katemcy (krocks) that I would love to try but disaster would most definitely occur. Granted an IFS vehicle has better ride quality but that's not what we are after. My next rig will have a SFA because of this
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Old 07-01-2009, 10:16 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Beeb, I have never had to disagree with you before but having wheeled many IFS vehicles (currently owning an H2 & H3) I can honestly say that a SFA can go in places that a IFS vehicle can not. There is the Upper-V at Katemcy (krocks) that I would love to try but disaster would most definitely occur. Granted an IFS vehicle has better ride quality but that's not what we are after. My next rig will have a SFA because of this
Well then we will just have to agree to disagree.

I've wheeled both, and while the straight axle has more flex for sure, I can follow them almost anywhere, maybe slower, and it may be a little more difficult, but I prefer it. It's soooo much smoother on the trail, and definitely king on the road and the desert.
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Old 07-01-2009, 10:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Well then we will just have to agree to disagree.

I've wheeled both, and while the straight axle has more flex for sure, I can follow them almost anywhere, maybe slower, and it may be a little more difficult, but I prefer it. It's soooo much smoother on the trail, and definitely king on the road and the desert.
x2. I regularly end up at trail destinations and hear "how'd you get here?" which is usually followed by "IN THAT???" If you know how to pick your lines, almost anything is doable in either format. Right now, my problem is width, not IFS v. SA.
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Old 07-02-2009, 06:31 AM   #24 (permalink)
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All I will add is that sometimes the only line to pick in an IFS is the "option out line"
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Old 07-02-2009, 06:44 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I'd imagine you all would benefit from the same things most of us would benefit from...

torquey yet reliable motor. I6, diesel, whatever... (don't need a monster V8)
optional auto or manual
Tcase options (this and the tranny options will allow soccer moms their choices and wheelers our choice)
Solid axles front and rear that are tried and true (no aluminum D44s or other garbage)
wheelbase in the 104-108 range
good approach and departure angles
large wheel openings

I would encourage them to make something similar to the "Rubicon" options package so those who want it can have an out of the box wheeler.
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