Art Carr/Winters shifter in a Scout.... - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 08-28-2011, 06:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Art Carr/Winters shifter in a Scout....

OK, I can't be the first one to put an Art Carr/Winters shifter on a 4wd version of a 727.... but I'm confused.

The linkage it nice, bolts right on, but it puts the cable 90-degrees to the tranny, right across the back of the pan, dumping the cable right were the front driveshaft wants to be. Makes routing the cable kind of a PITA as well (I'll need a longer cable, like 2 feet longer)

Is there another kit? What have others done for this? I think I can route it up and over the u-joint, I'll have to pin it in place, but its just not a place I really want my shifter cable.


Any thoughts (yes, I cross-posted this in Gen, since its not necessarily a Scout specific issue )

(ignore the cable routing out through the tub, that was just me playing with routing when I took the picture, I've decided the better route it probably down the passenger side under the truck then a big loop up to the center hump. Naturally it goes through the tub there right above the REAR drive shaft u-joint )
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Old 08-28-2011, 06:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You can get longer cables, and they also make some different linkage kits for some trans, I had to use one on my Jeep TJ w/ drivers side drop T-Case.
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Old 08-28-2011, 06:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I used one in Leona's Scout. I had to route the cable (close) to the exhaust. I used Adel Clamps to insure the cable clears the exhaust and rear drive shaft. I can take some pictures if you need. Note I got the champs from Fastenal and I used a bunch to insure there would not be issues later.
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Old 08-28-2011, 07:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
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So you routed it above the yoke Robert? Ya, pics would be great if you had it.


Did you run a longer cable as well? Probably depends on were you put your shifter, mines pretty far back.
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Old 08-28-2011, 08:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I see what I can do for pictures tomorrow. I did run it above the output, and it is behind where the stock shifter was mounted. My is on the R4, behind the LS so the shifter is different but the mounting should be the same.
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Old 08-28-2011, 09:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Mine doesn't go under the trans at all. It bolts to the "tab" in your picture and the cable goes straight front to back....
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Old 08-28-2011, 10:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Mine doesn't go under the trans at all. It bolts to the "tab" in your picture and the cable goes straight front to back....
Did your kit come with a new arm for the tranny?? I mocked it up the "stock" way, using the original bracket that mounts to that "tab" the bell-crank linkage is mounted to. The throw of the new shifter greatly exceeds the throw of the original tranny arm, so thats a no-go. Plus I would have to run the cable out the front of the shifter, then in a big 360-degree loop on top of the tranny. Actually that wouldn't be too big of a deal even though when I made my shifter mount I designed it for the cable out the back. Would look kind of funny out the front but it would still work.

So if I mounted it "stock", I would need to make a new bracket/cable mount and a new shift arm. If I mount it with the hardware that came with it I have to get a longer cable and run it above the driveshaft..... hmmm, wonder what will be faster/easier/best in the long run to be able to to a shake-down next weekend.............
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Old 08-28-2011, 10:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RustoleumWhite View Post
Did your kit come with a new arm for the tranny?? I mocked it up the "stock" way, using the original bracket that mounts to that "tab" the bell-crank linkage is mounted to. The throw of the new shifter greatly exceeds the throw of the original tranny arm, so thats a no-go. Plus I would have to run the cable out the front of the shifter, then in a big 360-degree loop on top of the tranny. Actually that wouldn't be too big of a deal even though when I made my shifter mount I designed it for the cable out the back. Would look kind of funny out the front but it would still work.

So if I mounted it "stock", I would need to make a new bracket/cable mount and a new shift arm. If I mount it with the hardware that came with it I have to get a longer cable and run it above the driveshaft..... hmmm, wonder what will be faster/easier/best in the long run to be able to to a shake-down next weekend.............
I bought the shifter used and it came with the trans arm. Mine goes out the front with the 360 deg loop.
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:34 AM   #9 (permalink)
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My shifter is a B&M, but routes like Binder's. It comes in from the front. I loop the heavy-duty B&M cable forward around the oil sending unit (tied in place to keep it from getting too close to the headers) and then it loops back into the front of the 727 on the driver's side, away from the driveshaft.
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Well putting it "in line" was going to be a PITA and way too much rework. So I decided to go with a longer cable. Vendor I got the shifter from's going to take care of me... too bad the longer cables are on back-order


So the stock shifters going back in for now, I'll swap the new one in when the new cable is in
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:32 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Post up a picture of your cable, show me the ends, I have a ton of them for the ground equipment, if I have the one you need, it yours for the ride. Also will need a ball park length. Also PM me your shipping address and I shoot it off ASAP.
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Sweet.

Let me get it back out tomorrow evening and I'll snap a couple pictures and shoot you some dimensions.

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Old 06-27-2012, 11:34 PM   #13 (permalink)
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When you bought the longer what length did you end up using?
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Old 06-28-2012, 06:56 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
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When you bought the longer what length did you end up using?
I ordered an 8'er, but its still "won't" work. I've come to the findings/conclusion that Winters/Maverick Performance (who originally, and always has made the shifter) only makes one linkage for the 727. Its the same linkage they have made since the 70's, and that's the style that comes in perpendicular to the tranny, right across the front driveshaft. It could be made to work, but its vulnerable and a cram job with the tunnel. They also agree there is a problem, but don't have ANY plans to change anything.

Research is showing that Art Carr made is different linkage that was in-line with the tranny. The cable has to make a big 360 loop, but that is not a big deal. But of course Art Carr went out of business last year-ish, and they and Winters didn't seem to talk or share tech.

Turbo Action, who's shifter is VERY similar to the Winters uses a 360 cable routing, but they were VERY insistent that their links WILL NOT work with the Winters/Maverick/Art Carr shifter. Not even willing to talk about it.

So that's my story. Looks like its fab time and hope I get it right!
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:32 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I'd put some added heat protection on there if I was you. Buddy did the B&M tucked tight also from the exhaust and it still melted. Not sure what your sleeve is made of but just given you a heads up. A kevlar hose wrap would ease the mind...
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Old 06-28-2012, 02:00 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Thanks for the response
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Old 06-28-2012, 07:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'd put some added heat protection on there if I was you. Buddy did the B&M tucked tight also from the exhaust and it still melted. Not sure what your sleeve is made of but just given you a heads up. A kevlar hose wrap would ease the mind...
X2 on the melted anyway. and the Kevlar.
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:56 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Twisted Customs made some brackets and linkage pieces for the race car. 727 with a jeep dana 300. I will see if i can get some pics tonight. Bummer they don't realize how many of these transmissions are used in 4wd applications.
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