'56 IHC S120 Travelall transfer case part? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 02-25-2012, 12:52 AM   #1 (permalink)
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'56 IHC S120 Travelall transfer case part?

I have just acquired a '56 Travelall. This is my second. I foolishly gave away my first one.

The transfer case is a NP. I do not know the model. It is a gear drive not a chain type. When I acquired my first Binder I found it made a clop-clop-clop (high rate) sound from the transfer case. I drove it for thousands of miles with the sound. It might be described as a chatter sound.

When I pulled the transfer case apart, as the noise was driving me crazy with the worry that it was going to break and let us, the crowd of desert adventurers with me (seats for 9), down in the middle of nowhere. I found that a main drive gear was a two part deal with an inner square tooth gear part transferring power to an outer gear part. The outside circumference of the gear tooth that engaged other gears in the box was a standard one.

The inner and outer parts of this gear was held together by a hidden snap ring. Between the inner part of the gear and the outer part of the gear the square teeth engaged with slight gaps between teeth. Between those teeth there are small 1/4" diameter springs that live in holes. The impression is that the teeth are not intended to touch each other, rather that the springs supply a sort of a shock absorber. So, if I have not been clear yet, if this gear were designed today it would likely have been assembled with a vulcanized polymer between the inner and outer parts of the gear to absorb lash chatter(?).

When I pulled the case apart the bottom was filled with what looked like little "c" clips. These were the chewed up parts of the springs. I rebuilt the gear with the heaviest die type springs of that size that I could find. They lasted about 6 weeks and the clop-clop chatter started again. I really worried that this excessive "gear" lash was going to destroy the internal square engagement teeth of the gear.

I took it apart again. De-greased it; removed all the springs and broken spring wire and snapped it back together. I took mild steel shims that fit the gaps between the gear teeth very tightly. I then placed the gear on my wood burning stove and stoked the fire.

I did not have a tempil stick or any thermometer to check temps, but it stayed on the stove until it began to obtain a slight purple color. I tacked and then immediately welded the square shaped zig-zag "seam" all the way around with 5/32" 7018 stick electrode.

After the gear cooled overnight cooling with the stove as the fire died, I re-assembled the transfer case. I drove that Travelall for 40,000 miles with that welded gear and the BD240 engine. At that point I installed a Chevy 292 straight 6 and drove the truck for nearly 200,000 miles with NO gear problems.

This "new" '56 makes the same noise. I was told years ago that NP made a replacement gear that was solid one piece. I do not know if there is a source for that part. I will have to fix this, even if it would never break if left as is. I just cannot live with the noise. I will weld this one, but if there were a one-piece replacement part (old stock-new part, or good used) available, I'd prefer to install that. Any ideas?
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Old 02-25-2012, 08:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
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My "guess" is your Tcase is the NP201, I have "up graded" several older Internationals to the newer NP205. It is a direct bolt on and I find they are much quieter, while being just as strong. That said this is a modify everything don't give a damn rock crawler forum, you will find a much friendlier crowd more in tune with your truck over on oldihc. By the way very nice truck, I think Bill Hamilton USN1bill has a very similar truck that he doing some diesel conversion on, or he will at least relay what a dumb ass you are for having a carburetor on your truck
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Old 02-25-2012, 11:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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So there was nothing in my post that might be useful to a hard core rock crawler? To bad.

My previous truck clawed through a large percentage of Canyon Lands; sand, rock and stream crawling with articulated rear suspension, rear D-Locker, welded truss 44 front, dragged around by that Chevy straight 6 modified to produce 280 hp. This "new" one is going to be the basis for another. But, not likely to try Micky's Hot Tub.

Yes, I am looking for a diesel now. Just need to get the T-case slightly more bullet proof.

BTW, OldIHC might be the place if they would get the virus cleared out of it. Can't sign in without getting a "you computer is infected" let us fix it for you. Then my virus detector disconnects me from the page.

Also, can the 205 be had as a divorced unit?

Last edited by Bruce A. Frank; 02-25-2012 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 02-25-2012, 11:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Also, can the 205 be had as a divorced unit?
Yes it can. I think most are divorced units. And also try www.binderplanet.com maybe be a bit more what your looking for.
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Old 02-26-2012, 02:09 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Am there. Plus BackCountry Binders and Binders Bench.
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Old 02-26-2012, 08:51 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I second the 205 upgrade. Plus you can twin stick it easily. They are pretty common as far as IH parts go. Dodge also had the divorced 205's in passenger drop.


Pictures of the rig and of the off road adventures would be cool to see.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Bruce, I was not questioning your manhood at all, I think you truck is cool and I am glad you are man enough to use it. I have seen trucks like your's that only ride the trailer from one show to the next. The 205 your after is in every 70's International 4x4 travelall and pickup. As said very easy to twin stick or do a doubler on. Hell if you get crazy you can install a divoriced Atlas and set up some nice gearing, IH T35 5spd and an Atlas will give you more gear opptions than a tractor, thats what I have and believe me the choices are unlimited.
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I have no intention to keep this a trailer queen. It is in my book a work horse, with all the changes to be made to make it the ultimate bug-out machine.

FIRST addition is actually going to be the addition of a 80-100 gallon fuel tank.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:05 AM   #9 (permalink)
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When I need old transfer case crap I call(ed) Border Parts -

3875 Bancroft Drive Spring Valley, CA 91977
(619) 461-0171

They are a pretty old school mom/pop kind of place. I don't think they own a computer...

They might know what you are talking about.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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FIRST addition is actually going to be the addition of a 80-100 gallon fuel tank.
How about some pics of this rig? I can't wait to see the 80 gal gas tank
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:41 AM   #11 (permalink)
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New acquisition to replace one I gave away years ago. Custom non-split-rim wheels. Rebuilt BG240 (BD240 worn beyond use). Trans, both differentials, and transfer case rebuilt 20,000 miles ago. A good canvas to build upon. Intend to add HD bumpers, brush guard and full roof rack. . .and two more bench seats. One I used to have carried 9 people in comfort. This one is very noisy, but the old AM tube radio works and can be listened to over the din! Looking for a diesel conversion opportunity.
Posted in the "show of your IH thread"
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:44 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I don't think Ive ever said it before, but that one looks too good to cut up and beat on.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:39 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Not intending to take the Rubicon with it, but I intend to re-explore many of the old trips I took in Utah's Canyonlands. The parts I am replacing will be removed and stored. No changes will be made that cannot be undone. Hitch and bumpers are in process right now. Fuel tank next. Changes that will likely be permanent are power steering and power brakes with a split master cylinder. Near future, full roof rack.
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:24 AM   #14 (permalink)
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A while back I related the process of "repairing" the output gear on in my NP201 Transfer Case in my "new" '56 S120 Travelall. To refresh, this gear is a two part with the inner gear and outer gear cushioned with captive small diameter die springs. The design didn't work and the failure of the springs was at a 100% rate. On my first S120 I rebuilt the gear once with springs and it lasted about 6 weeks, which was close to the durability of the OEM part. Oh, btw, the failure is so common that the gear is called the "knock gear."

My second try at repair was to weld the inner and outer gear together with some rigorous preheat and postheat procedures. It worked and I put 200,000 miles on the repaired gear without a whimper.

To make the repair on my current S120 I found a salvage yard that sold me one of the failed-spring gears for cheap. My intent was to make the welding repair on that spare gear and swap it with the one currently in the case. . .to save down time.

In the mean time I came across a "rumor" that the solid (one piece) gear in the NP200 transfer case could be substituted for the two piece gear in the NP201 case. Perfect match with no modification required.

I set out to verify the info and found a 4X4 parts/service center that had done the swap and said the rumor was true. But, they didn't have a gear. I spent the whole weekend searching virtually every transfer case discussion in the 4 wheel drive forums on the Internet. I found a link to an exploded view of the NP200 from a company that specialized in parts for old military and civilian Dodge Power Wagons. Company site http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com listed on the PDF. The pdf had a short parts list that included this gear NOS!!!

I just got off the phone with them where they also verified the substitution. Yes, the did have the gear New Old Stock! $125 and will be here in a week!
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:21 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Bruce- That is one nice looking Travelall...way too nice for this crowd of ne'er-do-wells and scallywags.

I would definitely look at swapping a divorced NP 205, it's stronger, cheaper, and easier to find parts for than the 201.

In another thread you posted about diesel swap and RPM. Increasing your tire size (if you have the room) will drop hwy RPMs, and might be cheaper/easier than a gear swap. If you can fit a transmission with overdrive with the diesel swap, that will help, too.
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Old 07-13-2012, 01:20 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Larger tires may not be a good idea on this vehicle. The first one I had, the front passenger side axle shaft twisted and broke at the U-joint yoke. Replaced it with a stock shaft and never had a problem carefully crawling Canyonlands.

This "new" Travelall has the same axle shaft twisted. Apparently the right front inner axle is subjected to high torque loads. Larger tires may get the road speed up, but when it is time to 4 wheel, larger tires may cause a problem.

Also, from what I read, the 201 has every bit of the strength of the 205. The NP200 and 201 cut their teeth on military vehicles.

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Old 07-13-2012, 10:23 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Also, from what I read, the 201 has every bit of the strength of the 205. The NP200 and 201 cut their teeth on military vehicles.
True, but IIRC they have straight cut gears and don't like high RPM/highway speeds. They were designed when 45MPH was fast for a military truck.

Perhaps an axle swap is in order if you are worried about axle strength? Better brakes and easier to find parts. I'd hate for you to break a hard to find axle shaft in the middle of nowhere.

What axle combo does it have now? I see a FF hub in the rear (RA-10?)
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Old 07-13-2012, 10:41 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Larger tires may not be a good idea on this vehicle. The first one I had, the front passenger side axle shaft twisted and broke at the U-joint yoke. Replaced it with a stock shaft and never had a problem carefully crawling Canyonlands.

This "new" Travelall has the same axle shaft twisted. Apparently the right front inner axle is subjected to high torque loads. Larger tires may get the road speed up, but when it is time to 4 wheel, larger tires may cause a problem.

Also, from what I read, the 201 has every bit of the strength of the 205. The NP200 and 201 cut their teeth on military vehicles.
IMHO the 205 doesn't shift as nice either.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:25 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Strange that the NP201 would have a reputation of a problem with high speed operation. In my previous vehicle, '56 Travelall, I installed a Chevy 292 straight six. The diffs were 3.73 ratio and I made many long interstate trips traveling at 70-80 mph. I used 95-140 gear lube with STP. Put 200,000 miles on that transfer case after fixing the "knock gear" with never a problem!

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Old 10-15-2012, 02:47 AM   #20 (permalink)
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After some analysis of what happens to the short inner axle shaft on the front passenger side. It was suggested by an engineering friend that the short axle breaks because its short length cannot rotationally flex as much as the left side to absorb the torsional load.

The replacement axle that the previous owner had made to replace the stock axle is much larger in diameter and heavier in the yoke area. But, it would not fit into the axle tube because of the long taper from the shaft to the yoke. I finally succeeded in turning that junction area down far enough to fit correctly, but cross sections on the part may now equal that of the OEM part. So unless the steel is a much better grade than the OEM material, it may be just as susceptible to breaking as the OEM part. I'll post some pictures later.
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