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Old 11-05-2001, 04:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Shackles.....

I am looking to get some new front shackles (maybe rears soon too) and was wondering what different people are running and what seems to work well.

I am sprung over (saggin springs) and would also like to have the shackles give me an inch or two of lift. They are stock shackles on the front right now.

Thanks for any replies......

I can't build any where I am currently so thats not an option right now.......
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Old 11-05-2001, 04:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Shackles.....

Quote:
Originally posted by Dingo
I can't build any where I am currently so thats not an option right now.......
CANT BUILD???????????? What no drill and hacksaw????
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Old 11-05-2001, 05:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Nope, .......weak I know. I left most of my tools at my parents house (400 miles away) since there is NO room in this fawkin studio apartment.

Come awn, somone atleast point me in the right direction....thanks.
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Old 11-05-2001, 06:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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A buddy of mine with a Scout used lift shackles from a flat fender Jeep (45-? I think) which were good for 2" of lift. The only problem that he ran into though was that the bolts were too small for the shackle holes, but fit through the stock bushing with sleeve just fine. He solved this by putting in a spacer on the shackle hole. Damned stupid if you ask me because it was just so thin. Personally, I would have pressed out the bushings and installed new ones with a larger hole, or just popped out the sleeve, drilled them slightly larger, and popped in a larger sleeve. Hope this helps. Let me know if you need some more info.
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Old 11-05-2001, 06:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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What you own a Scout with no tools Are you nuts man? Too bad I just cut off a pair. Even auto parts stores can sell you a pair extended shackles. It's going to do wonders for your steering unless you have enough turn in the knuckles. You could also go to a local metal fabricator and have something whipped up. If your bold, buy some metal from Home Depot, 3/16 or 1/4 will work, buy some flares and start cutt'n.

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Old 11-05-2001, 06:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
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What you own a Scout with no tools Are you nuts man?

Ok, I lied.....I have some tools, just nothing to cut with. Seems like that (making your own) is the prefered method for Scout's......I will have to look into that then. I was kind of hoping to just go and pick up something sheap somewhere.......anyone want to make some and sell them to me cheap????
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Old 11-05-2001, 06:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Oh, and I was curious too......if I were to go and cut some metal from Home Depot or where ever, wouldn't I need to weld a support across the middle??? If not then maybe I should go snatch me up a hack-saw.......
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Old 11-05-2001, 06:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dingo
Oh, and I was curious too......if I were to go and cut some metal from Home Depot or where ever, wouldn't I need to weld a support across the middle??? If not then maybe I should go snatch me up a hack-saw.......
Just use a bolt and three nuts. Are you in sac? Blue collar will have everything you need and will cut the metal for ya as well.
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Old 11-05-2001, 07:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Dingo
Oh, and I was curious too......if I were to go and cut some metal from Home Depot or where ever, wouldn't I need to weld a support across the middle??? If not then maybe I should go snatch me up a hack-saw.......
If you use heavy enough material, you don't need a center brace...it also lets you flex better (not much) when you don't connect them.
BTW...Where are you located?
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Old 11-05-2001, 07:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I am in LA right now, but might be back up there before too long.....

How heavy steel should I go for, like 1/4 inch???


And as far as making them so I get a little lift out of them, I want about 2, how long do I make them? I recall hearing somewhere that every inch over stock gives you 1/2 an inch of lift.......does that sound right? Or should I lift it to the sky with 18 inch shackles on the front???? Hehe.....and yes that last comment was a joke
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Old 11-05-2001, 08:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Dingo
I am in LA right now, but might be back up there before too long.....

How heavy steel should I go for, like 1/4 inch???


And as far as making them so I get a little lift out of them, I want about 2, how long do I make them? I recall hearing somewhere that every inch over stock gives you 1/2 an inch of lift.......does that sound right? Or should I lift it to the sky with 18 inch shackles on the front???? Hehe.....and yes that last comment was a joke
I used 1/2" x 2" and I think that it is too thick. You should use 3/8" x 2" . As for the length vs lift, remember that you are only moving one side of the spring down, so typically you only get 1/2 of the left vs length.
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Old 11-06-2001, 12:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I used 1/2" x 2" and I think that it is too thick. You should use 3/8" x 2" . As for the length vs lift, remember that you are only moving one side of the spring down, so typically you only get 1/2 of the left vs length.


Right on, thats what I was thinking.
So I am going to try and pick up a piece of metal. I will let ya know how it turns out.

Thanks again.
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Old 11-06-2001, 12:47 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dingo
I am in LA right now, but might be back up there before too long.....

How heavy steel should I go for, like 1/4 inch???
Or should I lift it to the sky with 18 inch shackles on the front???? Hehe.....and yes that last comment was a joke
As others have said.. have the steel shop cut 'em if you must.

I try to use 2"x3/8" thick steel strap. Stock are 3" center to center, so I go with ~4.25".

If they won't cut it, hack-saws are cheap!

Use a 7/16" drill bit to punch the holes.. a quick can of spray paint.. ta-da.

I find it easiest to cut the steel in my chop-saw, stack the four pieces on my drill press, and punch two holes in 'em..

Using my 1/2" hand held drill takes longer.. and a hacksaw would SUCK.

Too-long shackles will not ONLY foul up your caster, but they'll also increase leverage on your shackle mounts. I have a few friends that have ripped the shackle mounts off the frame b/c of extended shackles.
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Old 11-07-2001, 12:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally posted by tsm1mt
Too-long shackles will not ONLY foul up your caster, but they'll also increase leverage on your shackle mounts. I have a few friends that have ripped the shackle mounts off the frame b/c of extended shackles.
Hmmm, I keep hearing that
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They will tear off your shackle mounts
idea. But...

My engineering classes tell me that longer shackles exert no more leverage against the frame mount than lift springs which move the axle away from the spring the same amount. Leverage is always calculated at right angles. The distance the force is from the fulcrum dictates the amount of leverage, not whether the lever arm is curved or straight.

So, a lift shackle that raises the frame 1 inch, would be no more prone to ripping a shackle mount, then a lift spring that raises the frame by one inch.

Or am I missing something in the equation?
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Old 11-07-2001, 08:54 PM   #15 (permalink)
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So, a lift shackle that raises the frame 1 inch, would be no more prone to ripping a shackle mount, then a lift spring that raises the frame by one inch.

Or am I missing something in the equation?
If you're talking side to side motion the leverage would be greater with longer shackles, as the spring eye is further from the mount, thus producing more force. The spring height would factor in, but the force produced with 1" lift shackles (~2" longer) would be greater then stock shackles and 2 inch springs.

Sound right?
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Old 11-07-2001, 09:15 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Ah, Jeez...just weld your mounts on there better then....
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Old 11-08-2001, 08:14 AM   #17 (permalink)
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If you're talking side to side motion the leverage would be greater with longer shackles, as the spring eye is further from the mount, thus producing more force. The spring height would factor in, but the force produced with 1" lift shackles (~2" longer) would be greater then stock shackles and 2 inch springs.

Sound right?
Nope, because the end of the lever is not the spring eye, it is the axle. So the total distance of leverage is a straight vertical line from the plane the mount is on to the plane the axle is on. If the axle is 6 inches away from the mount vertically (horizontal distance is ignored because the shackle can pivot) the leverage is the same whether the 6 inches is all shackle, all lift spring, or a combination. It is the total distance from the axle to the mount that gives leverage, not just the distance to the spring eye.

Hence my argument that extended shackles offer no more leverage against the mount than lift springs offering the same vertical lift.

I am pretty sure on this, but...

Patrick
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Old 11-08-2001, 09:01 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hooper


Nope, because the end of the lever is not the spring eye, it is the axle. So the total distance of leverage is a straight vertical line from the plane the mount is on to the plane the axle is on. If the axle is 6 inches away from the mount vertically (horizontal distance is ignored because the shackle can pivot) the leverage is the same whether the 6 inches is all shackle, all lift spring, or a combination. It is the total distance from the axle to the mount that gives leverage, not just the distance to the spring eye.

Hence my argument that extended shackles offer no more leverage against the mount than lift springs offering the same vertical lift.

I am pretty sure on this, but...

Patrick
Only problem here is that the shackle isn't rigid. It has some "slop" in it - it has to in order for it to be loose enough to "swing" w/o binding.

Thus you can "slam" the shackle mount when you twist the spring axially.

The longer the shackles, the more the deflection available, the more torque to the mounts.

Why do you think long shackles get cross-bars n' such to help stiffen 'em up - because they flex!

When the shackle flexes you change it from pure up/down/front/back to side to side twisting forces, too.

A shorter shackle minimizes that..
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Old 11-08-2001, 09:07 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Only problem here is that the shackle isn't rigid. It has some "slop" in it - it has to in order for it to be loose enough to "swing" w/o binding.

Thus you can "slam" the shackle mount when you twist the spring axially.

The longer the shackles, the more the deflection available, the more torque to the mounts.

Why do you think long shackles get cross-bars n' such to help stiffen 'em up - because they flex!

When the shackle flexes you change it from pure up/down/front/back to side to side twisting forces, too.

A shorter shackle minimizes that..
OK. I'll buy that. I was looking at pure physics, instead of real world. Newbie mistake

You are right, the slop in the shackle allows the springs to get farther off center line, and the longer shackles magnify that leverage, as well as allowing for more slop. That makes sense. It is not an even, steady force against the mount, rather it is a light pressure, than a solid hard pressure when the slop is gone.
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Old 11-08-2001, 05:05 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Go aluminum. Thats what i did.
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Old 11-08-2001, 05:05 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Another
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Old 11-08-2001, 05:06 PM   #22 (permalink)
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And one more for the road.
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Old 11-08-2001, 05:19 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Im concerned about the metal fatigue for aluminum, also about the ability of aluminum to be easily gouged, especially when the "shackle" is pivoting in its mount & comes in contact with the steel frame, make sure to keep good bushings in em'. I like the look of those anyhow. Might as well polish them!
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Old 11-08-2001, 07:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
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And one more for the road.
This guy has been using the same ones for two years and not had a single problem. People worry uselessly sometimes.
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Old 11-08-2001, 09:01 PM   #25 (permalink)
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This guy has been using the same ones for two years and not had a single problem. People worry uselessly sometimes.
Your right Brawler, I mean whats the worst that can happen anyway, right? After all its just a trail rig. Mines a daily driver so I see certain things differently if it were mine is all. What type of aluminum is it?
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